Lucy Letby case #21

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I have a similar sofa, should I burn it?

all jokes a side I think it is a lovely house and just so strange why you would go on to murder babies when you have a great job just bought a lovely house, seemingly has friends and attends festivals etc. of course people can have everything and still be deeply unhappy. Do you think they will ever give a ‘motive’?

I think any motive given will be lacking tbh as there isn't really any justifiable reason for doing this.

I think the real motive will be pretty weak and just boil down to her doing it for attention, power, thrill seeking and jealousy. I don't think it goes any deeper than that tbh

If she's guilty she's done this because her brain isn't wired right. Her reasons won't make sense to any of us.

 

[docmum]

I deleted Facebook 3 years ago and have never looked back. Nicu babies sadly don’t all make it and the nurses are trained for that but they are babies that as complications from their prematurity or the reason behind them being delivered prematurely. They have things that can’t change despite the best intervention in the world, things like a bleed on the brain for example. The whole point of this case is that all of these babies were over the first hurdle, they were sick because of their size and vulnerability, but they were little fighters and it’s why there’s no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

 

[raspberryjuice]

She was probably too busy scrolling the parents Facebook or planning salsa class to worry about taking photos of an important rash.
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True although I think it massively breaches data protection to use your personal mobile. They had a ‘NICU camera’ in the one I was in but it was an actual camera not a phone

I don’t think a data breach would be one of her concerns when she has medical records under her bed

 

[stardust1]

It may be she’s being advised to show more emotion…

picking the wrong thing to cry aboutif i was her and innocent i’d have been screaming from the roof tops the last 7 years

 

[tay65]

I was looking on Google at some of the historic newspaper reports and a report from The Guardian on 12 November 2020 actually named all the alleged murdered babies, five boys and three girls. I think the ban on the naming of the babies must have been imposed later. However it's not possible to know which baby relates to the letters A to Q but it feels very sad to see names and know they are no longer here when they should be thriving children.

 

[docmum]

But you do need to be a pathologist to have a thorough understanding of how cause of death is determined, the contribution of any disease processes or interventions, and the interpretation of post or ante mortem findings. Anyone can sit down with a big stack of notes and look for patterns, but I am increasingly uncomfortable with the lack of scientific rigour in some of his claims and in the conclusions which have been drawn.

I totally respect your opinion, and don’t want this thread to go off on any tangent again but I’m afraid I disagree completely. Pathology is relevant in preventing death rather than identifying the cause of it. Physiology/patho-physiology is the first module taught at medical school as it’s the foundation of all medical knowledge, it’s the rule for all rather than the exception.

 

[musiclover90]

Yes, exactly. In an arrest situation it's really difficult, you might have 5, 6, 7 people in that room with you, and with a tiny premature baby you're going to struggle to see. Having a set list of what we look for helps lighten the cognitive load.

Additionally, you've got to remember that most doctors do not know what a rash looks like with air embolus. I can't even find an example of the rash easily on google (for obvious reasons) - I've had to go through a couple of different articles, find the latin name, then look that up because that's apparently what it looks a bit like in divers when they get a cerebral air embolus (which is different too!). The rash that an air embolus apparently 'looks like' occurs in 50% of newborns as well, the weird thing about it here is that it specifically disappeared when the baby got better...

For reference, this is the rash the articles say the cerebral air embolus in divers looks like, I've seen something similar in a lot of babies that is permanent, especially newborn ones. Remember that Baby M is only 2 days old at this point.

View attachment 1980221

My legs and arms look EXACTLY like that nearly all the time. What I get is called Livedo Reticularis. Supposed to be from cold weather but in reality I have it most days unless I'm very warm. It's a horrible thing to have cover all your limbs (as you can imagine, I mean just look at it!) but doctors don't care because it's supposed to be "harmless" (although can be associated with autoimmune disorders such as antiphospholipid syndrome which can lead to miscarriages if not diagnosed and treated) so I just cover up all my ugly skin. I've been trying to find out a reason why I have it and a cure for years, I even thought of moving to a hot country. Sorry to derail with my health issues! I just rarely see it discussed and have never seen anyone else with skin like mine. I actually had no idea about divers getting something similar.

 

[MmmB777]

Unless it was in a small bag with all the other bits of evidence, I still don't think much of it.
Especially since she was moving house at the time, maybe I'm just chaotic but I think it would be pretty normal to stick some bits of paper out your pocket and into a handbag and for an old bag to end up under your bed. My old bags are like time capsules of whatever snack/lipstick/place I was into at the time I used it.
Not saying I think that points to innocence, just don't think its suspicious or means she's guilty.

It’s a Morrisons bag not an old handbag.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Her house wasn’t searched until 2018

Nurse's home searched by police following baby murder arrests

Detectives have been searching a nurse's home after a healthcare worker was held on suspicion of murdering eight babies and the attempted murder of another six at a neonatal unit.

www.standard.co.uk

That’s a long time to keep some notes you shouldn’t have if they have no meaning to you. Especially weird to keep them nice and safe under your bed.

 

[Tofino]

Maybe she had far more ‘trophies’ that she did get rid of but these few bits were missed?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

@docmum @Haveyouanywool anything to add medically for the arrest baby M has? It’s so incredible to me that they, understandably, nearly gave up after almost 30 minutes and spoke to the parents about stopping efforts.. for baby to go on to be in air just hours later. Thank god they carried on. Important to remember how many babies have survived because of all their efforts too I think.

Nothing to add to @F1Grid fantastic explanation. I’d only reiterate, strongly, that AE is extremely rare, so rare that the Drs didn’t realise the significance of what they were observing. Even though they noted LL was present foul play hadn’t occurred to them.
Dr RJ had to reference very old literature.
With the benefit of hindsight, and additional knowledge, it all seems obvious now, but that is not a luxury they had.
Yes, ideally, the rash should have been recorded on all occasions, but things are rarely ideal. What a terrible realisation for them, horrendous.
I really don’t think there is much else the defence can bring.

 

[Stiltoncheese]

I still don't know what I think about guilty/not guilty. Feel like I need to hear more again as I've forgotten so much of the before christmas reporting due to the long break and patchy reporting.

However, I will concede that despite her claiming no recollection, she has consistently googled patents of each of the cases time and time again and I just find that weird. If she genuinely looked them up after another bad incident triggered her to think "I wonder how such and such baby is doing now as they also had bad incidents" then I could understand it more. Bit she just blanket claims not remembering doing it and that just seems so much more untruthful to me.

 

[stardust1]

I think there's defo a change in tone in the WhatsApp messages as we go through the cases. At first it's all awwwww poor Lucy, not so much by the time we've got to the latest babies.

She reminds me of the type of colleagues who just annoy me, I’d likely have told her to piss off texting me before we even got to any murders

 

[Tofino]

On the FB page they are denying an air embolism took place. I just can’t see how they’ve come to the conclusion. Also talk of Dr Dewi Evans being a terrible witness and Dr Sandie Bohin covering up the Kent cases, just blaming it on massive hospital failures. I did point out that no individual was actually charged with murder in any of those cases ( Shropshire) too. I’m not great at following narratives, so I’m totally prepared to believe that cover ups do happen and we shouldn’t always believe what we are told. However, I just can’t see how a cover up could be pinned on one nurse?

They seem to forget that it’s the police that investigated the potential (at the time) criminal aspect and that CPS agreed they had enough evidence to charge her with murder/attempted murder for 17 babies. Nobody who has said they think it’s a cover up/scapegoat situation has ever been able to explain how they think the hospital could get away with this. Or do they think the police are in on it too?

 

[gimmethattea]

Reading through todays tweets so far, the one that states a blood gas report for Child M was recovered from LL's house, has made me sit up. I can only go by the way in which the hospital I work in organises itself. Nurses will always walk around with a ward list printed at the start of a shift containing patient names, hospital numbers, NHS numbers, diagnosis, comorbidities and relevant notes such as pressure ulcer, level of diet consistency, fluid restriction, bowels movements etc. It is expected that these are discarded by nurses at the end of a shift in the confidential waste but of course in the rush and tiredness of real life in the NHS, nurses often forget they have these notes and go home with them. Therefore, I can completely understand if they had recovered these. But, I'm struggling with the blood gas report. Again, I can only go by the way in which the hospital I work is run. Blood gas reports are printed on a receipt-like form and are stuck into the medical notes. Medical notes are somewhat different to the nurses notes as they contain all Dr entries regarding ward rounds, plans etc - the inner workings of Drs brains, as well as entries by Speech and Language, Dietitians etc. They are not carried around in uniform pockets and absolutely should not end up in someone's home. Unless LL wrote down the results somewhere else or the nursing notes at CofC contain a lot more info than the nursing notes in my place of work, then I am struggling to understand how and why she had this report in her house.

I'm replying as I read, so apologies if I'm repeating, but I think you're right about the Blood gases and I find her having a copy of them really disturbing as I'm not sure why you'd take it home.

When my son was in NICU end of October/beginning of November, his first day he had hourly blood gases and they were also on the receipt type of paper and the most recent one attached to his notes. I only ever saw the most recent one as they .ust have been discarded or stored in his folder with other notes when they had the new ones.

Also, on the children's ward, I remember them recording OBS on paper towels, but they would go on the computer once they'd completed all the OBS needed.

I'm not sure you can argue it was accident when they are still in her house nearly 2 years later. Sure, mistakes happen and things can get forgotten in bags, pockets etc, but wouldn't you throw it away or discard of it after finding it. Why keep it.

 

[docmum]

Awful details here in the second half of the article. Poor baby I.

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

Lucy Letby, 33, denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others between June 2015 and June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

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Only minor added detail at the very end. This poor poor nurse. I’m sorry but I feel nothing but sympathy for these people. And there’s Letby in her police interview saying she couldn’t recall baby I. She’s full of shit.

Accused nurse cried over baby collapses, jury told - BBC News

Lucy Letby said it felt like babies often became seriously ill on her shifts, a doctor tells a jury.

www.bbc.com

absolute inexplicable fury towards her after reading this. Grateful for the courtroom that it’s Friday. Glad they’ve had a productive week though, she needs locking away for good asap.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Maybe she thought she could always outsmart everyone else. Seems to be the way with a lot of killers.
Whatever was driving her seemed to develop into a compulsion.

 

[stardust1]

I agree, but I think it’s either she’s been asked to show a little more emotion, or this person has been a trigger. If this person is some kind of ex it’s going to stir quite a few emotions, but nothing else in this trial seems to have for her…

but why would you choose this moment to show some emotion? So many better times to look like you give a fuck than now surely? I think it’s just typical selfish emotions and the reason she is uoset is it has touched a nerve for something personally

 

[Haveyouanywool]

If LL is found guilty it will be interesting to hear what comes out about her life (in the press or at sentencing). I wonder if any of it will start to make sense. I can’t imagine what you must have to go through in life to make you think killing innocent newborns is an ok thing to do.

She might not have to have gone through anything.

 

[IGiveUp22]

The card is odd for me but the main thing that makes me go “hmm” is the fact this was the only baby she’s appeared to send a card for, despite possibly having more to do with other babies/parents & what she has written in the card does not add up with the fact she “doesn’t remember” this baby or parents…she can’t have it both ways. She can’t feel so strongly to send the ONE sympathy card but then not remember this family later down the line???
Im not even going to mention the Facebook searches.