Lucy Letby case #21

[slingo16]

Hello everyone. I’ve seen the table that gives the deaths by months for the time period it was in that spreadsheet somebody posted. (Not sure how accurate it is because of the October charge not being on it ) but going off of what it says.

You’ve got 4 deaths between December and January and she’s not charged with even an attempt in those two months. I think that’s significant, and if you look between September 15 and March 16 you have 10 babies that die and she’s only charged with one of the deaths. That’s a lot of deaths they haven’t been able to link to her in my eyes.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I would imagine it is very often the same people/person that write the articles that might appear more of a G article or more NG the next day. The bbc is the small group of local journalists and the Chester usually always Mark! The mail must get their info from the lady that does the podcast as she often says she’s there but doesn’t live report. To be honest I’ve never felt that they are expressing an opinion either way in anything I’ve read so far. The headlines are often brutal but at the end of the day she’s accused of deliberately murdering babies and it doesn’t get much worse than that. There’s been no sensationalism imo just the main parts that will be relevant and it has to be balanced as possible even though it’s the pros case. There’s no “evil this and evil that” like there was back in the day! She is alleged to have smiled at baby I’s bath and she is accused of killing that baby, that bit is going to trump a technical walk through of the unit or run through of how meds are given etc. I don’t doubt they know which part of the days evidence will hit the headlines and get the clicks but that’s part of their job. There have often been periods where only the bbc and Chester did a daily write up. At the moment the write ups are coming from lots of outlets, I’d say more than usual actually but they are usually almost word for word the same. Bit of a pick up from world news this week even. Fox News have started reporting on it again and news in New Zealand picked it up as it was mentioned that she wanted to move there in her texts.

I feel the same about opinions being expressed. The Headlines are often well ‘Headline grabbing’ but that’s only to be expected. It seems to me that most articles have balance between defence and prosecution evidence. Very far from the ‘trial by media’ that you would see in the US for example. Personally I think it’s a bit of a stretch to class most article as NG or G.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Hello everyone. I’ve seen the table that gives the deaths by months for the time period it was in that spreadsheet somebody posted. (Not sure how accurate it is because of the October charge not being on it ) but going off of what it says.

You’ve got 4 deaths between December and January and she’s not charged with even an attempt in those two months. I think that’s significant, and if you look between September 15 and March 16 you have 10 babies that die and she’s only charged with one of the deaths. That’s a lot of deaths they haven’t been able to link to her in my eyes.

I think there were two times the chart said there were less deaths than we know there were, because of the deaths in this case. Not sure if anyone else has access to the deaths by month, incase that ones been edited

 

[DellaC]

Hello everyone. I’ve seen the table that gives the deaths by months for the time period it was in that spreadsheet somebody posted. (Not sure how accurate it is because of the October charge not being on it ) but going off of what it says.

You’ve got 4 deaths between December and January and she’s not charged with even an attempt in those two months. I think that’s significant, and if you look between September 15 and March 16 you have 10 babies that die and she’s only charged with one of the deaths. That’s a lot of deaths they haven’t been able to link to her in my eyes.

No cameras, no weapons, some poor practise and staff issues, vulnerable victims that were relatively easy to kill. It was the perfect breeding ground for a SK and there's absolutely no wonder the evidence was limited. Its the nature of the beast.

I bet the police will have looked for as much evidence as they could possibly find and were very frustrated. They've built a massive case and I commend them, I really do. It must of been harrowing.

I wonder how many parents are sat at home without their babies wondering if this monster was responsible for their death? Whether or not she was it's surely going to conjure up a number of what ifs?

Guess there's only Letby who could answer that.

---

I think there were two times the chart said there were less deaths than we know there were, because of the deaths in this case. Not sure if anyone else has access to the deaths by month, incase that ones been edited

That would be really interesting to see

 

[slingo16]

I think there were two times the chart said there were less deaths than we know there were, because of the deaths in this case. Not sure if anyone else has access to the deaths by month, incase that ones been edited

I’ve found a similar chart that covers from 2013 - 2017 the figures are consistent with what was in the spread sheet which is weird. Because like you say there are two months that give incorrect figures. I don’t know if posting a link to it here is exactly legal otherwise I would. On a side note it says in 2013 there were 25 deaths…

 

[Daisydunn15]

I’ve found a similar chart that covers from 2013 - 2017 the figures are consistent with what was in the spread sheet which is weird. Because like you say there are two months that give incorrect figures. I don’t know if posting a link to it here is exactly legal otherwise I would. On a side note it says in 2013 there were 25 deaths…

If its publicly available information and I'm not sure why it wouldn't be legal? We've had some posted before and the reviews into the hospital.

 

[Pulltheotherone]

I know we are discussing and dealing with very poorly babies in this case but are there any nurses on this thread ( I know there are a few ) who could say if the losses in this timeframe were even remotely “ normal “ ?

 

[stardust1]

I know we are discussing and dealing with very poorly babies in this case but are there any nurses on this thread ( I know there are a few ) who could say if the losses in this timeframe were even remotely “ normal “ ?

Not a nurse but was in NICU for 5 months with about 8 differ cots, there was no babies who died. There was a lot of sudden health declines including with my own baby but they all were ok

 

[I’mThankyou_]

I know we are discussing and dealing with very poorly babies in this case but are there any nurses on this thread ( I know there are a few ) who could say if the losses in this timeframe were even remotely “ normal “ ?

No one knows if they were normal because you don't know what the babies were born with. Some could be born with a genetic condition incompatible with life, some could of been completely healthy.
In my experience it isn't "normal" for any babies to die whilst being treated on NICU, only if they were incompatible with life or were born needing life saving treatment and were not strong enough to withstand it.

 

[tay65]

Hello everyone. I’ve seen the table that gives the deaths by months for the time period it was in that spreadsheet somebody posted. (Not sure how accurate it is because of the October charge not being on it ) but going off of what it says.

You’ve got 4 deaths between December and January and she’s not charged with even an attempt in those two months. I think that’s significant, and if you look between September 15 and March 16 you have 10 babies that die and she’s only charged with one of the deaths. That’s a lot of deaths they haven’t been able to link to her in my eyes.

Some of these deaths could have been expected even during the pregnancy for example a baby diagnosed with Edwards syndrome or with anencephaly or other such genetic problems. In such cases the prognosis would have been very poor even prior to birth and so she wouldn't have had involvement in deaths of this nature. Babies with certain abnormalities may only survive for a short time but would have been a NICU death.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Some of these deaths could have been expected even during the pregnancy for example a baby diagnosed with Edwards syndrome or with anencephaly or other such genetic problems. In such cases the prognosis would have been very poor even prior to birth and so she wouldn't have had involvement in deaths of this nature. Babies with certain abnormalities may only survive for a short time but would have been a NICU death.

The genetic disorder deaths should be pretty similar across the board. It would be interesting to compare their stats with a NICU in a different hospital, to see whether the issues on the unit had any impact on the stats. If G then LL obviously did and possibly beyond what's included in the case, but we also know that the unit had huge issues which could have contributed to high numbers.

I know from people posting their experience and from the expert witnesses that they wouldn't expect so many deaths, but then you'd also expect a better quality of care, so it's hard to say what impact that would have on already very vulnerable patients.

 

[docmum]

You have to take in to account that there’s a natural rise and fall in death rates with seasonal changes or high and low birth rates, seasonal illnesses, local population age/background/status etc. you’re talking multi multi multi factorial epidemiology. Please don’t analyse death rates as crude data, yes you expect to see trends to an extent but you won’t find any answer as to whether she was involved or could have done less/more than accused of.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I think we have to remember this is a level 2 unit so would not be expected to care for very premature babies or babies requiring immediate surgery (for diaphragmatic hernia, operable cardiac conditions etc). Quite often parents of babies with conditions that are non compatible with life choose palliative, minimally invasive, care in a hospice setting at end of life.

 

[gimmethattea]

So, I'm a first time poster ever in Tattle, but a long time lurker on a variety of threads and I'm not sure I'll post much as I don't have much time unless it's when I'm awake in the night.

Just a little background that I was reading about this case on and off at the end of my pregnancy. At the end of October, I had my third baby, who ended up spending a week in NICU due to Group B Strep Sepsis. He wasn't premature, born 38+1 weeks, but he was very poorly at the start of that week and thankfully, despite having to be readmitted after having Group B Strep again, he is very well now.

I couldn't read about the case for a while after that, because I witnessed first hand things that nurses and doctors did that she would have done to harm babies. The feeding tubes, drips etc.
It's super hard, but you have to trust these people with your babies life and their care. It's traumatic regardless and it brings so many emotions.
So I took a long break.
Over the last few weeks, I've been able to start reading again.

What I really find appalling (and I think the parents in this case might too) is currently reading what Ben Myers does and says.
I don't think you can continue blaming prematurity on how these babies declined and died. Sure, they may have some weakness from being born very early, but I found that during my time on the NICU, all those babies were absolutely strong little fighters and I think people don't give them the credit they deserve.

I believe she's guilty from the information that's been presented so far. I believe she took every opportunity to hurt these little babies and that she used her surrounding to her advantage. The hospital clearly had some faults and made some errors, but I don't think this can be blamed either. She just took advantage of this. I just feel there is way too many coincidences to believe otherwise and I trust the medical experts that have given evidence. I may be swayed when it comes to hearing the defence speak, but honestly at this point in time, I'd need a lot to sway me.

 

[riddleme89]

No one knows if they were normal because you don't know what the babies were born with. Some could be born with a genetic condition incompatible with life, some could of been completely healthy.
In my experience it isn't "normal" for any babies to die whilst being treated on NICU, only if they were incompatible with life or were born needing life saving treatment and were not strong enough to withstand it.

Most sick babies go to bigger hospitals with more trained staff . My son was in a normal hospital NICU he was showing signs of infection and not getting better so in the middle of the night they took him to alder hey and we stayed for four months . So the fact so many deaths happened at the NICU in Chester just makes me think it’s not normal .

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Most sick babies go to bigger hospitals with more trained staff . My son was in a normal hospital NICU he was showing signs of infection and not getting better so in the middle of the night they took him to alder hey and we stayed for four months . So the fact so many deaths happened at the NICU in Chester just makes me think it’s not normal .

Definitely isn't normal.
But just for a opposite opinion at the time COCH was a level 2 NICU, so could deal with unwell babies.
My twins were kept at a level 2 NICU when they were both diagnosed with Sepsis & NEC resulting in cardiac arrest in 1 twin. So it does happen, there isn't always the capacity to transfer to level 3 care.

 

[MmmB777]

Just seen this..

 

[raspberryjuice]

Just seen this..
View attachment 1921424

Guess who’s not back to work til Tuesday night 🫣

This trial is going to end up lasting a year with all these delays and no-court days. Feel so sorry for the families and the jurors who’s lives are on hold til all of this is over.

 

[Realitybites]

So I went to a talk about the psychology of serial killers and the lady presenting it did a bit of an activity in the second half. She asked the audience to name a female serial killer- Lucy Letby got shouted more than once…

 

[MmmB777]

Think even I’d draw the line at that
Podcast is out by the way x