Lucy Letby Case #18

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I think she is guilty, but I still want to ( or did yesterday) discuss the bags. It is important, the defence will pull this apart one way or another. We arn’t going to have all the information, not even close, however, if we can come up with something logical for each of the three professor’s explanations with the little info we have then how is that a bad thing.

We are on baby F, the insulin and contamination of the bags are literally the main part of the trial right now. Why wouldn’t it be discussed ? When the Facebook searches come up in court, or the messages, these are main point of topic at the time. I rarely add much in relation to them, as I don’t have Facebook so can’t comment if I’d stalk or not but I agree with many posters thoughts and I never get annoyed or frustrated by the discussion (not saying anyone does I’m just saying generally). There are parts I can’t follow or fully comprehend so I don’t say much, but it is fine for other posters to crack on and I read along.

I’m camp guilty but I found yesterday going back a forth with posters, with a slightly different mind set than me, pretty helpful. It opened my eyes to certain aspects of what is expected during nursing practice but also cemented my thoughts further.

It really doesn’t matter what any of us think, we all know that, but for one reason or another we are here. For me, apart from wanting justice served for these babies and families (whether that be because of letby or hospital negligence), I genuinely find the whole trial process fascinating right down to what the hell compelled this women to do this (as morbid as that sounds). I’m not looking at it emotionally at all half the time just trying to be objective. Though I won’t lie when I hear the parents evidence I waiver and feel sadness and anger (who wouldn’t).

Any way rambling now hope everyone is okay today, let’s keep it amicable please

 

[Faith61]

I think she is guilty, but I still want to ( or did yesterday) discuss the bags. It is important, the defence will pull this apart one way or another. We arn’t going to have all the information, not even close, however, if we can come up with something logical for each of the three professorsexplanations with the little info we have then how is that a bad thing.

We are on baby F, the insulin and contamination of the bags are literally the main part of the trial right now. Why wouldn’t it be discussed ? When the Facebook searches come up in court, or the messages, these are main point of topic at the time. I rarely add much in relation to them, as I don’t have Facebook so can’t comment if I’d stalk or not but I agree with many posters thoughts and I never get annoyed or frustrated by the discussion (not saying anyone does I’m generally). There are parts I can’t follow or fully comprehend so I don’t say much, but it is fine for other posters to crack on and I read along.

I’m camp guilty but I found yesterday going back a forth with posters, with a slightly different mind set than me, pretty helpful. It opened my eyes to certain aspects of what is expected during nursing practice but also cemented my thoughts further.

It really doesn’t matter what any of us think, we all know that, but for one reason or another we are here. For me, apart from wanting justice served for these babies and families (whether that be because of letby or hospital negligence), I genuinely find the whole trial process fascinating right down to what the hell compelled this women to do this (as morbid as that sounds). I’m not looking at it emotionally at all half the time just trying to be objective. Though I won’t lie when I hear the parents evidence I waiver and feel sadness and anger (who wouldn’t).

Any way rambling now hope everyone is okay today, let’s keep it amicable please

Hear hear

 

[MmmB777]

I think she is guilty, but I still want to ( or did yesterday) discuss the bags. It is important, the defence will pull this apart one way or another. We arn’t going to have all the information, not even close, however, if we can come up with something logical for each of the three professorsexplanations with the little info we have then how is that a bad thing.

We are on baby F, the insulin and contamination of the bags are literally the main part of the trial right now. Why wouldn’t it be discussed ? When the Facebook searches come up in court, or the messages, these are main point of topic at the time. I rarely add much in relation to them, as I don’t have Facebook so can’t comment if I’d stalk or not but I agree with many posters thoughts and I never get annoyed or frustrated by the discussion (not saying anyone does I’m generally). There are parts I can’t follow or fully comprehend so I don’t say much, but it is fine for other posters to crack on and I read along.

I’m camp guilty but I found yesterday going back a forth with posters, with a slightly different mind set than me, pretty helpful. It opened my eyes to certain aspects of what is expected during nursing practice but also cemented my thoughts further.

It really doesn’t matter what any of us think, we all know that, but for one reason or another we are here. For me, apart from wanting justice served for these babies and families (whether that be because of letby or hospital negligence), I genuinely find the whole trial process fascinating right down to what the hell compelled this women to do this (as morbid as that sounds). I’m not looking at it emotionally at all half the time just trying to be objective. Though I won’t lie when I hear the parents evidence I waiver and feel sadness and anger (who wouldn’t).

Any way rambling now hope everyone is okay today, let’s keep it amicable please

I found it interesting too! I wouldn’t say I am that fussed about the explanation and that is very ignorant of me but I have absolutely no idea about the second bag and still don’t. All I know is the first bag was poisoned and that for me that’s the important bit and I was expecting that chat when the insulin came up also x

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I found it interesting too! I wouldn’t say I am that fussed about the explanation and that is very ignorant of me but I have absolutely no idea about the second bag and still don’t. All I know is the first bag was poisoned and that for me that’s the important bit and I was expecting that chat when the insulin came up also x

I understand what you mean. I think for me why I haven’t personally opened up a conversation concerning the initial bag contamination is because I think she 100 percent did that. She had the opportunity, the means and she hung the bag. From everything else we have heard so far, if we are to assume she is guilty, how can it not be her ? We have nothing else to go on or argue against that. It’s pretty clear cut and other than a pharmaceutical error (don’t believe that for a second) I can’t see how that wasn’t letby.

Concerning the next bags there is just room for discussion on the how! I mean if it wasn’t real life ( ) it would be a pretty good plot in a movie! How the hell did it happen. I don’t doubt it didn’t happen that ‘second bag’ (if there was one) was contaminated some how. It is just not so easy to work out . X

 

[MmmB777]

I understand what you mean. I think for me why I haven’t personally opened up a conversation concerning the initial bag contamination is because I think she 100 percent did that. She had the opportunity, the means and she hung the bag. From everything else we have heard so far, if we are to assume she is guilty, how can it not be her ? We have nothing else to go on or argue against that. It’s pretty clear cut and other than a pharmaceutical error (don’t believe that for a second) I can’t see how that wasn’t letby.

Concerning the next bags there is just room for discussion on the how! I mean if it wasn’t real life ( ) it would be a pretty good plot in a movie! How the hell did it happen. I don’t doubt it didn’t happen that ‘second bag’ (if there was one) was contaminated some how. It is just not so easy to work out . X

We start every thread with a poll, why on Earth would you not feel like you should say that you think she did it if you do?! I would like to say that too but I know it is met with not waiting for the defence or that you’re arrogant which seems to suggest you can’t make your opinion known. I just make it anyway which is maybe where I am going wrong
I also cannot see how it could be a different person poisoning at least two or potentially three bags but if there are theories on that it would be interesting imo. If Letby is innocent then there has to be an alternative to her putting the insulin there. X

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

We start every thread with a poll, why on Earth would you not feel like you should say that you think she did it if you do?! I would like to say that too but I know it is met with not waiting for the defence or that you’re arrogant which seems to suggest you can’t make your opinion known. I just make it anyway which is maybe where I am going wrong
I also cannot see how it could be a different person poisoning at least two or potentially three bags but if there are theories on that it would be interesting imo. If Letby is innocent then there has to be an alternative to her putting the insulin there. X

Eh ? Do you mean me because I’ve said in all my last posts that I think she is guilty. Or do you mean generally from other posters ?

I think it’s fine to state if you feel she is guilty and fine to state the other way if you don’t, or even if you feel unsure. I think it’s fine to say what you openly feel but, equally, if you don’t want to share an out right opinion it doesn’t matter either. Everyone looks on the evidence differently. I do struggle to see how people think she is blindly innocent but I’m not offended by it at all, more intrigued if anything. I started this thread as unsure but I didn’t know what I think I know now. Didn’t take me long to change my mind though. Maybe I’ll change my mind again when we get further along ? I think it’s doubtful but who knows.


Regarding the second bag contamination I don’t think it was any one else it was letby some how (can’t comment on other posters thoughts), I just want to work out how the hell she bloody done it. Maybe it’s not as complicated as we are making it. But there is certainly room for discussion on matter either way. X

 

[MmmB777]

Eh ? Do you mean me because I’ve said in all my last posts that I think she is guilty. Or do you mean generally from other posters ?

I think it’s fine to state if you feel she is guilty and fine to state the other way if you don’t, or even if you feel unsure. I think it’s fine to say what you openly feel but, equally, if you don’t want to share an out right opinion it doesn’t matter either. Everyone looks on the evidence differently. I do struggle to see how people think she is blindly innocent but I’m not offended by it at all, more intrigued if anything. I started this thread as unsure but I didn’t know what I think I know now. Didn’t take me long to change my mind though. Maybe I’ll change my mind again when we get further along ? I think it’s doubtful but who knows.


Regarding the second bag contamination I don’t think it was any one else it was letby some how (can’t comment on other posters thoughts), I just want to work out how the hell she bloody done it. Maybe it’s not as complicated as we are making it. But there is certainly room for discussion on matter either way. X

No, don’t mean you at all! I mean that is what very often I’m met with if I share my opinion that I feel certain she’s guilty (including a single post that was like “maybe I’m just…..waiting for the defence ” a few pages ago that was made at my expense and sarcastic) I don’t know what the answer is really because I’m accused of a lot here but everything I’m accused of I feel directed my way constantly. I would much rather be talking about the case! I don’t see a way that somebody else could have poisoned both first bags for both babies without there being further evidence for a different criminal on the ward that I think would have been caught. I suppose the other theory would be that the insulin was an accident both times but I can’t work that out either if it happens twice, one pharmacy and one standard bag in baby Ls case, if that’s correct @Haveyouanywool ?

 

[avabella]

Hoping this week brings some clarity to the evidence I’m sure the jury must have more info than us otherwise surely they’re all in a room together going ‘huh?!’ as well

 

[ShadesMint]

It seems to me that they are both checking the medication, just not at the same time. There are still 2x checks, 1x to check meds and 1x to administer

Yep they're putting a lot of trust in their colleagues, with the risk of the night nurse giving it to the wrong patient/administering it at wrong rate etc etc. With the insulin poisoning incident that happened a few years ago the emphasis is on both checkers being there while the infusion/IV medication is being prepared and both checkers being at patient bedside at the same time to do 5 rights and set up/administer the medication. I understand with staffing pressures that doesn't always happen. But it surely would have prevented a number of incidents that Lucy was able to get away with.

 

[Nelly's mum]

Yep they're putting a lot of trust in their colleagues, with the risk of the night nurse giving it to the wrong patient/administering it at wrong rate etc etc. With the insulin poisoning incident that happened a few years ago the emphasis is on both checkers being there while the infusion/IV medication is being prepared and both checkers being at patient bedside at the same time to do 5 rights and set up/administer the medication. I understand with staffing pressures that doesn't always happen. But it surely would have prevented a number of incidents that Lucy was able to get away with.

LL wasn't following any guidelines, she was murdering babies using air, over feeding and insulin.
Correct medication procedures wouldn't have made any difference, LL murdered babies in secret behind her colleagues back, not when she was supposed to be giving medication

 

[Daisydunn15]

LL wasn't following any guidelines, she was murdering babies using air, over feeding and insulin.
Correct medication procedures wouldn't have made any difference, LL murdered babies in secret behind her colleagues back, not when she was supposed to be giving medication

Maybe not the medication checking but that's one example of the poor practice on this ward. If she is guilty then the state of the ward absolutely made a difference, I don't believe a murderer would get away with it for a year on a well led, safe ward.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

No, don’t mean you at all! I mean that is what very often I’m met with if I share my opinion that I feel certain she’s guilty (including a single post that was like “maybe I’m just…..waiting for the defence ” a few pages ago that was made at my expense and sarcastic) I don’t know what the answer is really because I’m accused of a lot here but everything I’m accused of I feel directed my way constantly. I would much rather be talking about the case! I don’t see a way that somebody else could have poisoned both first bags for both babies without there being further evidence for a different criminal on the ward that I think would have been caught. I suppose the other theory would be that the insulin was an accident both times but I can’t work that out either if it happens twice, one pharmacy and one standard bag in baby Ls case, if that’s correct @Haveyouanywool ?

I’m no pharmacist but the the TPN would be made up in an aseptic pharmacy. A nurse witness said they either split a 500ml dextrose bag into 5 equal infusions on the ward or were sent pre-split bags from pharmacy. Obviously can’t say what Baby L had. I think the pharmacy contamination angle is a complete red herring, IMO,

 

[Helpimafish]

Or you know, we could just behave like adults and respect that other people have different viewpoints to us, and not be snidey about it?

This is the dream but doesn't appear to work like that

I've been reading these threads since they began, I would say probably with morbid curiosity. Its unbelievable and absolutely horrifying if she is guilty. Some of the evidence against her appears very suspicious but other parts also feel so strongly littered with sub optimal care that I don't see how it could solely be pinned on Lucy. I'm flip flopping between unsure then slightly leaning toward guilty.

I dont comment much but I find the discussion between most people to be very interesting and it definitely highlights things to me that I hadn't thought of or considered. Whether the posters believe she is guilty, innocent or they're unsure, most appear to be respectful and are having polite discussions around their differing opinions.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a couple of posters hellbent on berating anyone who doesn't see things the same way that they do. To be so invested in a case that you're becoming frustrated and bashing strangers on an anonymous forum, on a daily basis, is a good indication of needing to take a step back if you ask me.

 

[friedeggontoast]

Honestly I can’t make head or tail of the bags. I’m impressed by all of you trying to understand it because it goes straight over my head! I’m assuming the jury will have a lot more info to look over and it’ll make sense to them.


In terms of the arguments (again) please for the love of god can we just agree to ignore users we find offensive and stick to the topic at hand. It’s no good calling someone out for swiping when you do it yourself, you will know who you are when you read this. There’s double standards throughout these threads, its very simple as @Deeznutslol put so well on a previous thread, just ignore things you don’t like, it’s simple!

 

[dottynotty]

This is the dream but doesn't appear to work like that

I've been reading these threads since they began, I would say probably with morbid curiosity. Its unbelievable and absolutely horrifying if she is guilty. Some of the evidence against her appears very suspicious but other parts also feel so strongly littered with sub optimal care that I don't see how it could solely be pinned on Lucy. I'm flip flopping between unsure then slightly leaning toward guilty.

I dont comment much but I find the discussion between most people to be very interesting and it definitely highlights things to me that I hadn't thought of or considered. Whether the posters believe she is guilty, innocent or they're unsure, most appear to be respectful and are having polite discussions around their differing opinions.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a couple of posters hellbent on berating anyone who doesn't see things the same way that they do. To be so invested in a case that you're becoming frustrated and bashing strangers on an anonymous forum, on a daily basis, is a good indication of needing to take a step back if you ask me.

This!!! Sometimes it’s not what you say, but how you say it and a total arrogance and hostility and anger if you dare to play devil’s advocate and offer any other perspective on ask for clarification on things!

 

[friedeggontoast]

Read the warning from mods everyone!

Enough with the bickering. Moving on..

How old is LL now?

 

[tay65]

No, don’t mean you at all! I mean that is what very often I’m met with if I share my opinion that I feel certain she’s guilty (including a single post that was like “maybe I’m just…..waiting for the defence ” a few pages ago that was made at my expense and sarcastic) I don’t know what the answer is really because I’m accused of a lot here but everything I’m accused of I feel directed my way constantly. I would much rather be talking about the case! I don’t see a way that somebody else could have poisoned both first bags for both babies without there being further evidence for a different criminal on the ward that I think would have been caught. I suppose the other theory would be that the insulin was an accident both times but I can’t work that out either if it happens twice, one pharmacy and one standard bag in baby Ls case, if that’s correct @Haveyouanywool ?

I've always believed her to be guilty. She admitted in police interviews that insulin couldn't be added accidentally and she even asked the police if they had the TPN bag because she knew this would prove her guilty of adding the insulin. I don't understand what the situation was with the second bag but I hope BM doesn't somehow muddy the waters again because of confusion over the supposed second bag. She poisoned the first bag and any confusion over the second bag shouldn't affect anything because she still poisoned a baby. She then went off dancing and still couldn't leave work behind because she was itching to know what was going on at the hospital. "A caring and dedicated nurse BM - I don't think so".

 

[candyland_]

Read the warning from mods everyone!

Enough with the bickering. Moving on..

How old is LL now?

32. When I look at her photos on nights out she could only have been 25 but on some she looks mid 30s.

 

[friedeggontoast]

32. When I look at her photos on nights out she could only have been 25 but on some she looks mid 30s.

Wow she was so young when she’s being accused of doing these things. It’s crazy!

 

[candyland_]

I've always believed her to be guilty. She admitted in police interviews that insulin couldn't be added accidentally and she even asked the police if they had the TPN bag because she knew this would prove her guilty of adding the insulin. I don't understand what the situation was with the second bag but I hope BM doesn't somehow muddy the waters again because of confusion over the supposed second bag. She poisoned the first bag and any confusion over the second bag shouldn't affect anything because she still poisoned a baby. She then went off dancing and still couldn't leave work behind because she was itching to know what was going on at the hospital. "A caring and dedicated nurse BM - I don't think so".

She could have asked in a sort of ‘You don’t have the bag you’ll never prove it’ way.

Wow she was so young when she’s being accused of doing these things. It’s crazy!

Apparently it’s the average age serial killers start.