On most wards you would press the buzzer and someone presses a button to let you in so it's not like you could track who came in at what time. If she says she saw the clock then you can believe she was there at 7, they can just dispute that it was LL
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I don't think she'd lie on purpose but I think it's entirely possible that she's mixed up. Lucy is very 'normal' looking, could easily get confused with some other blonde nurse.Personally I feel the mother will be right in saying it was Letby, time factor may be out slightly but wouldn’t matter too much for me. I know that’s not a shock to anyoneThe way I see it, the mother has absolutely nothing to gain from giving her account. I appreciate that it won’t be conclusive to others, possibly not the jury either because she could be mistaken but my opinion is she wouldn’t be. I just feel she’s described at such length how dismal her care was on loads of fronts, I don’t think she’s biased to say the death wasn’t somehow the result of the hospital’s care- I bet she thought it was for a long long time. I just feel she wouldn’t say that lightly or be persuaded to think it was her, she will have never in her wildest dreams thought her baby had been murdered and you wouldn’t make up or misremember that part unless you felt strongly it happened. I would be more likely to be in denial I think.
But thankfully it doesn't seem like there's much resting on this. The mother thinks a nurse was acting weird, and she thinks it was Lucy. Might have been, if not oh well.
Right we know now what time LL came in at that night, so either the mother got the time wrong or it was another nurse. Either way it doesn’t really matter to us, as it’s not going to be proved one way or another, and it’s up to the jury to decide on its relevance. Whether or not it helps them with the overall picture being built of LL being over involved with these families?
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Lucy is also a foot taller than most other women (from the Facebook sleuthing that was done here) so I don't think it would be that easy to mistake her for someone else or vice versa.
Isn’t it more that the parents themselves haven’t liked her behaviour not just our conclusion or interpretations? How many times have we heard things now about them? I’m sure some people will say it’s confirmation bias but I do think that’s a bit insulting for multiple parents to not want to find out honestly what happened to their babies. I don’t think anyone is saying those things alone make her guilty.Honestly starting to wonder if I'm a bit of a weird one too
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
Well there you have it. Seems like it was pointless bringing it up tbh.
I do think maybe the mother mistook the time but if I was on the jury I'd have to dismiss it and go on like I hadn't been given that information at all.
I understand that people might feel differently though!! Just I couldn't count it.
Yes it’s like the colleague texting LL about how odd babies a,b,c,d were and all possibly being the same (collapses and deaths being similar), and LL was ready with a reply what was wrong with them (blood condition, small in womb and too early, and septic) and that’s why they were all “different”. Well could it be that’s why she picked these babies knowing that the problems they had would be the perfect cover for what she would do to them. It’s so awful to think this. This is why I really want to hear prosecution’s alleged motive, like why would someone do this
I don't know that if LL has done this, we will ever know the motive. It could be as simple as jealously needing to feel in control, important, as though she had got away with something, and had power over others, their lives and their emotions.
Lots of factors involved and I'm sure nursing in any unit is fraught with people at their most vulnerable and so it's probably not all rosy in the garden all of the time. I'd put my mortgage on most nurses having been told to f-off or being spoken to in a manner that wouldn't necessarily happen outwith a hospital. It sounds like these parents were all in a high state of alert and unease in general (understandably).
Yes this, it’s the parents themselves that have mentioned her, and I think it will be a recurring theme throughout the trial. I do think the Fb searches, photos on phone, sympathy card, keeping handover notes etc comes across as obsessive but that’s just my opinion. The parents saying how intrusive she was, to me is fact rather than opinion. If that makes sense?
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Our maternity ward was next to the hospital back exit, many a time I left my shift to the sound of women screaming their heads offtrue.
was that you? i remember going for a scan and hearing a woman wailing from the floor aboveme and my husband like
wtf are we doing.
I completely agree. I'm clearly a weirdo too.. But I'm good with that. I'm definitely not a murderer. Btw, I have had to say to patient's before, 'I'm sorry I'm hovering, I'll be over here, but I do need to stay'. That's why I asked early about NICU, because I thought they'd have to hover.Honestly starting to wonder if I'm a bit of a weird one too
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
I personally think it becomes relevant once you’re on trial for multiple murders of those patients though. Given the mother has been quite honest in her account of the treatment she received from many staff, I would say this is an honest account too that she feels relevant. And then of course it becomes a pattern if many parents felt a similar feeling. We can agree to disagree
Yes you could very well be right. I thought I’d seen someone on here saying that after all the prosecution evidence for each baby has been presented, the prosecution will then give their possible motive. I don’t know much about courts or trials so that could be completely wrong. Hopefully someone that knows about the court will be able to tell us if that is what will happen or not
i agree. Under differing lenses, it could seem suspicious or totally innocent. I think a lot depends on people’s viewpoints (ie some people have already decided she’s guilty therefore her lingering is interfering and seems odd).Honestly starting to wonder if I'm a bit of a weird one too
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
in a different scenario a nurse may ‘linger’ around and be seen as compassionate and going over and above.
What? She was hanging around families trying to spend precious moments with their sick dying babies... That's inappropriate as duck I wouldn't have been as polite as that mum.Honestly starting to wonder if I'm a bit of a weird one too
I've read so many comments about how LL 'comes across' based on a few texts and some shift pattern data. I literally have no idea how some of the reaches get to that point. So she arrived early for some shifts? And what? Maybe as others said, sleeping during the day is not easy and so you pop off to work a bit earlier rather than sit and watch telly and potentially get tired again.
She was 'hanging around' parents. Ok, but what if she just f' offed and didn't interact with parents at all? Then there would be claims that she was cold hearted and didn't have people skills.
I couldn't honestly say that anything we've heard strikes me as being particularly weird, obsessive, 'out there' or rude really.
Maybe it's me?
She tried to put a baby in a basket that had not passed yet...
I have tried to find out her height, I'm finding 5ft6 which to me isn't tall at all. I'm 5ft7 and I would consider myself slightly taller than average rather than tall (although I am frequently surprised when colleagues or friends refer to me as tall, maybe I am but in denial!!?).
She must have worked with a lot of 5ft nothing height people so going by the Facebook pictures OR they have her height wrong online!!
Exactly!!! She is not an empathic or compassionate person. I don't think people here a leaping to that conclusion, it seems pretty clear from her actions, behaviour and how she spoke.
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I think without having experienced NICU it's hard sometimes to contextualise stuff. Parents are used to having staff around, for someone to tell a nurse to go away tbh sounds more like they were overstepping the mark. It's not really like other wards, hard to explain though. I don't think it's overly weird to get into work a bit earlier but everyone I ever worked with would chill before though and not come onto the ward and work, really prior to a handover it's not appropriate imo but they obviously didn't have an issue with it.
All this talk of swipes though, its more than possible for people to passenger (even though we are always told not to) so its possible people are in rooms they haven't actively swiped into by someone holding the door open. Bad practice but plenty do it, stuff like this shows the importance of not doing so even if you know the person is a member of staff and should be there.
I still think the defences case is weak but I don't think anything that overly incriminates LL without doubt has been presented yet either.
All this talk of swipes though, its more than possible for people to passenger (even though we are always told not to) so its possible people are in rooms they haven't actively swiped into by someone holding the door open. Bad practice but plenty do it, stuff like this shows the importance of not doing so even if you know the person is a member of staff and should be there.
I still think the defences case is weak but I don't think anything that overly incriminates LL without doubt has been presented yet either.
So what if it wasn't Lucy? How are people viewing it then? Do we have another nurse hovering and lurking, or are they just doing their job?
I'm not seeing a problem with a nurse 'hovering' I've spent half my life doing exactly that.
I appreciate someone, somewhere will want to talk about coincidences and patterns, and I get it, but there are things we need to exclude from the patterns.. Well, I do anyway.
I'm not seeing a problem with a nurse 'hovering' I've spent half my life doing exactly that.
I appreciate someone, somewhere will want to talk about coincidences and patterns, and I get it, but there are things we need to exclude from the patterns.. Well, I do anyway.
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