Lucy Letby #5

[TheotherMaryBerry]

Just re. the comments on her behaviour being 'weird' or some of her actions being suspicious. Every single one of us is different...all of us have different stress reactions or ways of responding when our mh is poor. The fact that some of us wouldn't have smiled in a situation, or written wildly on a post-it, or admitted to something we hadn't done doesn't automatically mean she's guilty.

I know quite a lot of posters, here and elsewhere, have found her Facebook searching on Xmas day to be particularly suspicious...yet not everyone celebrates Xmas. Some people have a low key day, before I had my son I would see family but do my normal things during the day (reading news, looking at the internet etc.) And of course, lots of NHS staff will be working on Xmas day, so I hardly think the fact that it's Xmas day makes it any weirder than it already is.

 

[Custard cream]

Well thanks to the lovely poster who attacked me for my spelling last night. You are no different to the people who bullied me my whole childhood. I do have adult diagnosed dyslexia and I will have checked this post 20 times before I post. Autocorrect helps but it’s not perfect. Just know that people like you make people like me feel we can’t be included because we don’t meet your standards. That is wrong Avabella. You were incredibly mean.

but hey. I’m not letting it put me off. I’m back and if I make any spelling mistakes then please forgive me. It’s part of who I am and quite honestly if all you can do is pull someone up on a spelling mistake, shame on you

Please don’t let mean posters put you off. Nobody is perfect so don’t apologise for spelling mistakes. We are not here for spelling/grammar lessons! If it’s any consolation I had to block Avabella quite a while ago as she was rude to me for no reason at all so to be honest I think the problem is hers and no one else’s.

 

[corriefan175]

because I had read up to when they found out she had a grievance

I’ve just read about a grievance but can’t find it via Google- does anybody have a link about it?

 

[hello from me]

I suppose she could have started small and been gradually 'harming' babies over the years before she decided to turn to actual murder? It's all just speculation of course but I can seldom believe someone just wakes up one day and decides, I'm a mass murderer of babies now. Something has to give.

Wonder if she was unable to help one baby. Or made one mistake on one baby. Them this got to her. Sent her mad and she started harming others.

 

[Caledonianprincess]

I’m so sorry you experienced this

Thank you that's much appreciated. It pales in comparison to what these poor families have been through but it did hurt nonetheless

 

[Borntorun]

As someone with no children, can stillbirths be caused by outside factors? I don’t know much about pregnancy etc.

Am going to answer this as best I can. Trigger warning for anyone that doesn’t want to read it.
To be clear, a stillbirth is a baby born with no signs of life after 24 weeks gestation. Anything before 24 weeks is classed as a late term miscarriage.If there are any signs of life, and the baby later dies, this is a neonatal death regardless of gestation.

So no, you can’t ‘cause’ a stillbirth, although there are things that can significantly increase your risk factors. For example, despite being a high risk pregnancy women addicted to drugs can have a healthy baby, while women who have a textbook pregnancy / lifestyle can unfortunately have a stillbirth.

If someone needs a medical termination quite far on into their pregnancy (eg 20+ weeks) doctors would usually perform feticide first. It’s an injection through the stomach to stop the babies heart beating - this is the only way to ‘cause’ a baby to die deliberately but that only happens under very very rare circumstances, eg they discover the baby has an anomaly incompatible with life

 

[corriefan175]

Wonder if she was unable to help one baby. Or made one mistake on one baby. Them this got to her. Sent her mad and she started harming others.

Yes I thought this seemed plausible- she wanted to be helpful, busy-bodying and then perhaps something has gone wrong and she couldn’t deal with the fact she couldn’t help a baby therefore thought she’d ‘save them’ by ending their lives in NICU or something like that? A ‘better off dead than with me’ situation maybe?

 

[Tofino]

I’ve just read about a grievance but can’t find it via Google- does anybody have a link about it?

I think it was just this briefly mentioned in the defence opening.

 

[corriefan175]

I think it was just this briefly mentioned in the defence opening.

View attachment 1650739

Thanks- could it also mean she was a subject of a grievance, as in somebody had complained about her, rather than her raising the grievance? If not, wonder what that was about?

 

[Its_Me]

And of course, lots of NHS staff will be working on Xmas day, so I hardly think the fact that it's Xmas day makes it any weirder than it already is.

That’s a thought, maybe she was at work on Christmas Day and thought of that family as she was in work so she looked them up.

 

[Runninggems]

One of the victims it said LL had been present for the birth? Why would she be present for the birth? Isn’t that a completely different department?

My baby was premature (35 wks) and when she was about 3 minutes old she was swiftly moved to another room with oxygen. There were 10+ people who appeared in the delivery room ninja style at some stage without me realising, not sure if there for the birth or just after. They seem to call a whole team from different departments to attend premmie births - a nurse was probably there

Thankfully my daughter was in SCBU (not NICU) for a few days needing oxygen and to be tube fed every other feed. I met so many midwives, nurses and doctors in 8 days on two different wards I couldn't keep up.

 

[Tofino]

Thanks- could it also mean she was a subject of a grievance, as in somebody had complained about her, rather than her raising the grievance? If not, wonder what that was about?

Yes I don’t think it’s clear that it was her that raised a grievance. Esp as he’s talking about the allegations being destructive and she knew what was being said before her arrest. It sounds more like it’s a grievance against her. They will go into it but I think it will be a long wait to get to this bit!


ETA: actually just thinking about it, if it was at grievance stage then the NHS would have been talking to her about the incidents but not be accusing her of murder would they? It will be interesting to see the timeline of this and what was being said at the time she wrote the note, because it’s possible she wrote it before anyone even accused her of murder.

 

[showerbelle]

I think if the prosecution solely had him as the medical expert it would perhaps place an element of doubt in the jury's minds as to whether him not working clinically for a number of years meant his input was somewhat outdated. As they have him and a practicing consultant who will be up to date with experience of the latest equipment etc seems like a good balance. The NHS has changed immeasurably in the past decade or so imo in terms of staffing levels and other things, but his background into the fundamentals and medical side is invaluable.

I read it as she had a grievance raised against her so she was aware of the accusations, although that's my assumption based on what has been said so far.

Sending love to anyone affected by this trial.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Ah yes it was I'd completely forgotten about orite...I think he even took some stick on twitter for that and took it in good grace

Frankie has arrived in her puffa jacket.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Just re. the comments on her behaviour being 'weird' or some of her actions being suspicious. Every single one of us is different...all of us have different stress reactions or ways of responding when our mh is poor. The fact that some of us wouldn't have smiled in a situation, or written wildly on a post-it, or admitted to something we hadn't done doesn't automatically mean she's guilty.

I know quite a lot of posters, here and elsewhere, have found her Facebook searching on Xmas day to be particularly suspicious...yet not everyone celebrates Xmas. Some people have a low key day, before I had my son I would see family but do my normal things during the day (reading news, looking at the internet etc.) And of course, lots of NHS staff will be working on Xmas day, so I hardly think the fact that it's Xmas day makes it any weirder than it already is.

I have to disagree. She shouldn’t have been searching these families on any day, it’s against NHS social media boundaries polices.
Searching on Christmas Day doesn’t necessarily have great significance but it could, just could, indicate a desire to witness someone’s misery on what most would see as a happy family day.
Some might say there’s nothing wrong with her regularly searching for these families but I find it a bit voyeuristic and creepy.

 

[Stiltoncheese]

Frankie has arrived in her puffa jacket.

Doesn't matter what the case is, they always report on what the person is wearing. Like it has any bearing on the case at all

 

[MoveBtchGetOutTheWay]

I think if the prosecution solely had him as the medical expert it would perhaps place an element of doubt in the jury's minds as to whether him not working clinically for a number of years meant his input was somewhat outdated. As they have him and a practicing consultant who will be up to date with experience of the latest equipment etc seems like a good balance. The NHS has changed immeasurably in the past decade or so imo in terms of staffing levels and other things, but his background into the fundamentals and medical side is invaluable.

I read it as she had a grievance raised against her so she was aware of the accusations, although that's my assumption based on what has been said so far.

Sending love to anyone affected by this trial.

It's a balance of both isn't it. By pure years of experience even though he's not worked in clinical practice for 10 years he will still have encountered more scenarios than say a newer consultant who's been in the job 5 years as collectively he would have had more time working in "real life".

But then equally the staffing levels and equipment, procedures and protocols have changed immensely. I've worked in my particular field for around 12 years, my manager has about 25 years, but I'm often asked for the more complex reporting needed as I have newer skills in the software and packages we use. Likewise, there's certain scenarios that I've never encountered in my career which I seek my managers advise on.

Separate to this trial, I'd be really interested to know the comparison say to the 1980s and now, how do the statistics compare in a "regular" hospital.

 

[Stuffandsniff]

Does anyone know if she ever did any shifts in other hospitals? Something is really playing on my mind about a experience we had with our 4th daughter with a nurse that was just covering for a day? My daughter went from discharge in 48 hours to back in ICU very poorly from this women

 

[Tofino]

Just re. the comments on her behaviour being 'weird' or some of her actions being suspicious. Every single one of us is different...all of us have different stress reactions or ways of responding when our mh is poor. The fact that some of us wouldn't have smiled in a situation, or written wildly on a post-it, or admitted to something we hadn't done doesn't automatically mean she's guilty.

I know quite a lot of posters, here and elsewhere, have found her Facebook searching on Xmas day to be particularly suspicious...yet not everyone celebrates Xmas. Some people have a low key day, before I had my son I would see family but do my normal things during the day (reading news, looking at the internet etc.) And of course, lots of NHS staff will be working on Xmas day, so I hardly think the fact that it's Xmas day makes it any weirder than it already is.

Maybe there is an innocent explanation for searching the families on Facebook. Posters have come up with lots of reasonable suggestions. But what’s important is Lucy’s answer to that. And so far all she has said every time she has been asked in her police interviews is she doesn’t remember searching them but if they say she did then she doesn’t know why. That is not believable to me.

 

[TheotherMaryBerry]

I have to disagree. She shouldn’t have been searching these families on any day, it’s against NHS social media boundaries polices.
Searching on Christmas Day doesn’t necessarily have great significance but it could, just could, indicate a desire to witness someone’s misery on what most would see as a happy family day.
Some might say there’s nothing wrong with her regularly searching for these families but I find it a bit voyeuristic and creepy.

I agree...she shouldn't have been searching at all. But it is clearly something that lots of people do. Unethical, yes. Creepy, yep. Murderous, maybe not.
I can totally see why it could seem to be particularly ghoulish on Xmas day. On the other hand it's just another day and sometimes a very quiet day for people who don't have responsibilities at home with fewer distractions. I think it's a reach to say that the significance of the day adds greater weight to the charges.