Lucy Letby #5

[pommobear]

Surely no one would ever employ her in a caregiving role again? Rightly or wrongly Mud sticks

I mean legally no, you can't not employ someone on the basis that they were once accused of a crime if they were found not guilty. Although I cannot imagine if she WAS innocent she would ever want to go back to nursing again.

 

[Weeder]

To be fair, I imagine some units might use a different make of machine but I assume in life saving equipment like hospital monitors that they all have to be of an exact standard and do the same thing. They are all just alarming when parameters are breached, so as long as he understands that, the make of the machine isn't really relevant

It seemed a strange thing to concentrate on, so I think there will be more about this particular machine

 

[tennis ball michael]

I just want to put a trigger warning at the beginning of my post as I know some of you have said your struggling.
Im trying to make sense of it in my head. I was trained as a paediatric nurse, newborn to 16, 18 in some cases. The focus was never explicitly on preterm neonates, most cpr training in uni was from newborn etc.
Neonates is a speciality all of its own.
I have assumed that at first she started working in the special care rooms, and worked her way up to working more full time in the high dependency, which honestly can and should take a few months, as your learning new skills everyday as you go. That’s how it was for me. And so as her confidence and knowledge grows she is more aware of what can go wrong for preterm babies and treatments. It’s very different even to paediatrics (I have worked both)
As mentioned previously, babies forgot to breathe regularly, and small nudges etc a lot of the time we’re enough intervention. The elation when babies reached milestones, e.g coming off ventilators was shared by all of the staff. And in turn can lead to an amazing feeling that you are making a difference and you have a big purpose in life. Your working with mothers who are at their most vulnerable, and you do form special bonds (assisting them to hold their babies for the first time etc) especially because of the length of time babies are admitted. The other side of that, which I only ever experienced once, was horrendous. The baby was christened before the machine was turned off, and all of us had silent tears rolling down our faces while we went about our work. And this was a baby we had been around for a couple of hours at most. Both experiences, although very different are very emotive.
Who knows whether it was something in her personal life, or something at work that triggered her to act the way she did (I’m trying to remain open minded)
It’s well known that children deteriorate quickly, and can also recover quickly, but for me the maths with it all just isn’t mathing. I understand that for some the coincidence of her being there isn’t enough. But having been in that environment, I just can’t get my head around the fact that people didn’t realise she was the common denominator. Maybe it’s because crashes were so uncommon where I worked they would have stuck out like a sore thumb, even more so if it was the same person around the baby at the time.
I just don’t understand how anyone can harm a defenceless baby, if she is innocent and incompetent, why would you carry on knowing you are doing more damage?
I also for some reason can get out of my head that she knew what she was writing when she wrote the note, and it was written purposefully. Maybe im just reading about it all too much at this point.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk

Thank you for this- food for thought.
Who would be the person who would look over the ‘who was where and around’ each time? Would it be a manager of some sorts? Could the lack of staffing meant that she was essentially with a new team each time it happened, and potentially a team of agency staff? Could the day to day management bit have been short staffed and have had agency workers plugging the gaps? So in effect, the department is just reacting to each crisis as a single event rather than anyone having a more birds eye view of any patterns/who’s involved? And who would that person who should have a birds eye view be? Annnnd, who was it eventually?
Such a state. So extremely sad.

Actually, also, could that be a defence? ‘It was X’s job to make sure no one was going around unstopped attacking babies these alledged incidents were being seen as a whole, you can’t blame LL for your failings?’

 

[Stiltoncheese]

So much...and we are only a few days in!

Some of these minor details will probably end up being significant though, so it's good to question everything

Edit...this is in reply to Weeder as the quote didn't work

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Well if she's found not guilty then on what basis would they be able to stop her ever being near children again?

I suppose if it was her incompetence that killed them then yes, but that would then be manslaughter.

The NMC would review what has been found in the investigations/trial etc to form their decision - even if she’s not guilty of murder the trial could reveal incompetence, negligence or malpractice. Eg we already know that she has been found for certain to be taking home patient identifiable information - this has the potential to put patients at risk. I’m sure more things over the next 6 months may also come to light that may be of concern to the NMC.

 

[yellowboat]

Actually just wondering, do neonatal staff have to have training on the different manufacturers before using their machines, or is the functioning much the same across different manufacturers? Just thinking about agency staff in particular who might work in different hospitals.

You have to have 60% of staff trained on a piece of equipment before it can be bought into practice.. technically. However, there’s not a massive difference between brands and even with older/newer models. Most places use the same 2/3 brands. I’ve worked agency all over the place and never run into an issue.

 

[HelgaGPatak!]

I think there will be quite a few people on the fence at the moment, mostly for me it’s due to lack of motive. The prosecution haven’t given this and I think many of us need an answer to why before we can start to comprehend someone carry out the heinous crimes.

Yes I agree this is very important and I hope the prosecution delve in to this.

 

[Windowtothewall]

The expert witness isn’t on trial here. He did do a good job of not being undermined however he has been doing the job since what 2007.
Although, just thinking out loud here how much of an expert can he be if he hasn’t even used an IntelliVue. Im not trying to discredit any of his work (obviously very intelligent and respected in his field) I’m just surprised they haven’t gone with a consultant neonatologist instead of a paediatrician where the majority of his work on the neonatal unit seemed to be 30/40 years ago.

There is another medical expert. Two of them did the reviews, this is the first one.

The other is a practising consultant neonatologist, a younger woman. They're just getting different POVs to form an unbiased opinion. The opinions of her own colleagues, consultants, babies' parents etc will all be evidence too.

 

[pommobear]

Yes I agree this is very important and I hope the prosecution delve in to this.

Motive for me is actually less important because serial killers do things for no motive at all.

 

[stardust1]

I think there will be quite a few people on the fence at the moment, mostly for me it’s due to lack of motive. The prosecution haven’t given this and I think many of us need an answer to why before we can start to comprehend someone carry out the heinous crimes.

There will be plenty of examples of there being no motive at all. It doesn’t matter why in my opinion if she did it she did it, it won’t bring them back.

 

[aalmaalm]

Finding it hard to keep up with this thread. I have caught up with live feed though and will dip in and out of this. But can I just say and it’s probably been said. I hope this case doesn’t take away (I doubt it does) the fact that Nicu nurses are actual angels sent from heaven. And without the constant care from them for my little girl, she wouldn’t be here right now. They saved my baby’s life on several occasions, and were also there for me. I feel forever thankful I hope the parents of these precious angels get the closure and justice that is so truly deserved.

 

[LaBlonde]

Motive for me is actually less important because serial killers do things for no motive at all.

same for me. sometimes there IS no motive, beyond some kind of sick enjoyment and feeling of power. there are so many cases where the motive is never revealed so i don’t know if i would hold out for one here.

 

[Don't care]

The thing that is really bugging me is that the defence said the IV bag that was tested and found to be contaminated with insulin had never been in contact with Lucy?? Wtf does this mean!! Does it mean it’s easy for IV bags to be contaminated accidentally or has someone else contaminated it??

 

[MmmB777]

You have to have 60% of staff trained on a piece of equipment before it can be bought into practice.. technically. However, there’s not a massive difference between brands and even with older/newer models. Most places use the same 2/3 brands. I’ve worked agency all over the place and never run into an issue.

Interesting thank you! I did think to myself it sounded more a difference in makes/brand than the machine. Maybe a couple of levels up from saying can you work a tv.. oh but not a Samsung. There’s differences but they don’t render you incapable. Unless you’re my dad

 

[French toast]

How is it possible to inject insulin into a bag? Does it have to pierce a sealed bag, or are they not sealed?

 

[stardust1]

How is it possible to inject insulin into a bag? Does it have to pierce a sealed bag, or are they not sealed?

i think pierce a sealed bag. I’m sure that stepping hill man was caught cause the bags started to leak

 

[yellowboat]

How is it possible to inject insulin into a bag? Does it have to pierce a sealed bag, or are they not sealed?

That orange bit at the bottom is like a squishy plug. You literally use a needle and syringe and you can add anything to the bag. It’s not really noticeable to the eye if it’s been spiked because of the texture of the squishy plug. Insulin is clear so it wouldn’t change colour

 

[Lucymyers]

Im intrigued to see what her imternet search history says

 

[Stiltoncheese]

Im intrigued to see what her imternet search history says

Yes I've been wondering about that. Also intrigued about what else the house search uncovered as prosecutor made reference to other things of note to be discussed at later point before he raised the note she wrote

 

[HelgaGPatak!]

I'm sure she was made Godmother to the surviving twin of a baby she had killed.

Wtf where did you get thus info from?