Lucy Letby #5

[miss_demeanour]

Well thanks to the lovely poster who attacked me for my spelling last night. You are no different to the people who bullied me my whole childhood. I do have adult diagnosed dyslexia and I will have checked this post 20 times before I post. Autocorrect helps but it’s not perfect. Just know that people like you make people like me feel we can’t be included because we don’t meet your standards. That is wrong Avabella. You were incredibly mean.

but hey. I’m not letting it put me off. I’m back and if I make any spelling mistakes then please forgive me. It’s part of who I am and quite honestly if all you can do is pull someone up on a spelling mistake, shame on you

 

[amb1505]

I’m sorry if this is inappropriate but I praise the jury for their strength to not go home and google this. I’d be straight on Reddit reading the theories

 

[sickofsm]

The more I look at the post-it note, the more I think these writings were during a phone call. Maybe with a therapist. Maybe with a lawyer early on. The post-it notes they found with colleagues names make me think lawyer / seeking legal advice and making notes about things she remembers on specific shifts with specific colleagues, aimed at proving her innocence.

There are definite suicidal tendencies in the post-it note published. The defence states she “knew what was being said about her before her arrest” and “was going through a grievance procedure with the NHS”. She knew what she was being accused of. Every reason she could be speaking to a therapist.

To me, it looks like she initially wrote down points she wanted to discuss, then during the conversation added other writings between the lines. Also, the doodle in the top right corner. And also the fact that it was a post-it note in the first place. If it were a suicide note, diary entry, or overall ramble, you wouldn’t generally select a post-it note to write on.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

I worry that she is innocent. If she is her entire life is destroyed because even if she is found not guilty there will be so many people who feel she is. It’s shocking. I really think cases like this they shouldn’t name the individual until they reach a verdict. Maybe that’s not possible I dunno. Just seems really crazy to me.

I’m not convinced she’s guilty from what we have seen so far.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

The part I struggle with massively is where they stated they moved her to days because of their suspicions! Like wtf ?! I can’t get my ahead around this. It doesn’t sit right with me and I can’t imagine any one else. So you suspect a potential murderer is on the loose during the nights and decide to switch them to days to test your theory?? How the f*ck was that allowed to happen. Who the hell approved this? I’m sorry but I think that is bullshit. For what it’s worth I don’t particularly buy her being innocent, but she sure as hell isn’t the only one who is guilty here. That scenario either never happened for the above reason, and they are using it now to suggest they were always suspicious of her (surely not). Or the unit Is entirely ran by incompetent fuck wits who equally should be held accountable, for that decision alone. Honestly I can’t shake that part of it at all. You can’t have it both ways suspect one of your nurse’s is harming babies but still allow her to work. If your suspicions were that strong you would have had her suspended and gone straight to the police. I just don’t buy it I don’t think her seniors had any suspicions at the time, I think it’s mostly hindsight and they are spinning a different narrative to try and save their arses!

 

[Lucyxxxx]

honestly, this is an emotive case where people are going to have differing opinions and feel very strongly about those and no one is wrong (how can they be after about three days of opening statements) but can we stop with the swipes at each other? it’s an upsetting enough case as it is.

(not aimed at you deletedbutbackagain, the post that instigated this has been reported and is now gone)

I agree so can people stop making nasty snide posts about people who don't agree with them. Doesn't make you edgy or different.

 

[bluefish40]

I just want to put a trigger warning at the beginning of my post as I know some of you have said your struggling.
Im trying to make sense of it in my head. I was trained as a paediatric nurse, newborn to 16, 18 in some cases. The focus was never explicitly on preterm neonates, most cpr training in uni was from newborn etc.
Neonates is a speciality all of its own.
I have assumed that at first she started working in the special care rooms, and worked her way up to working more full time in the high dependency, which honestly can and should take a few months, as your learning new skills everyday as you go. That’s how it was for me. And so as her confidence and knowledge grows she is more aware of what can go wrong for preterm babies and treatments. It’s very different even to paediatrics (I have worked both)
As mentioned previously, babies forgot to breathe regularly, and small nudges etc a lot of the time we’re enough intervention. The elation when babies reached milestones, e.g coming off ventilators was shared by all of the staff. And in turn can lead to an amazing feeling that you are making a difference and you have a big purpose in life. Your working with mothers who are at their most vulnerable, and you do form special bonds (assisting them to hold their babies for the first time etc) especially because of the length of time babies are admitted. The other side of that, which I only ever experienced once, was horrendous. The baby was christened before the machine was turned off, and all of us had silent tears rolling down our faces while we went about our work. And this was a baby we had been around for a couple of hours at most. Both experiences, although very different are very emotive.
Who knows whether it was something in her personal life, or something at work that triggered her to act the way she did (I’m trying to remain open minded)
It’s well known that children deteriorate quickly, and can also recover quickly, but for me the maths with it all just isn’t mathing. I understand that for some the coincidence of her being there isn’t enough. But having been in that environment, I just can’t get my head around the fact that people didn’t realise she was the common denominator. Maybe it’s because crashes were so uncommon where I worked they would have stuck out like a sore thumb, even more so if it was the same person around the baby at the time.
I just don’t understand how anyone can harm a defenceless baby, if she is innocent and incompetent, why would you carry on knowing you are doing more damage?
I also for some reason can get out of my head that she knew what she was writing when she wrote the note, and it was written purposefully. Maybe im just reading about it all too much at this point.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk

 

[Mermer89]

These families have been completely failed by the hospital. Guilty or not this could and should have been stopped sooner.

 

[TheWitchIsBack]

I’m really interested to see what comes out about this during the trial as there are so many questions -

- if she was under any sort of suspicion, particularly around deaths and collapses why did the trust not suspend and investigate?
- the doctor that was concerned about her was following her about - why not whistleblow?
- what was the general consensus from her peers?
- the doctor caught her over a child with low sats and no alarm sounding - wasn’t this immediate cause for a suspension?
- the photograph of the dead twins - I think there is something more sinister to this in context that will come out during the trial as there’s no way the prosecution would bring this into evidence if, for instance, the parents had requested an update or she had put it into some sort of journal that was then passed on. The exposure of this so early on would make me think the photo was taken and kept personally without any reasonable explanation for taking it
- how did she react when her shifts were changed due to concerns over her?
- was she on enhanced supervision? If not then why the fuck not.

I know there is a lot of chat around the note but I think this is actually detracting attention away from some really serious questions that haven’t been answered.

Looking at everything I do think she’s guilty and there is definitely some sort of personal stressor that’s caused her to begin doing this however I don’t think theres enough yet to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, especially as the general management and the length of time she’s been left to do this brings into question the competence levels of management within the trust.

Bloody disgrace and whether she’s guilty or not there really has been some significant failings for these poor families.

 

[LaBlonde]

honestly, this is an emotive case where people are going to have differing opinions and feel very strongly about those and no one is wrong (how can they be after about three days of opening statements) but can we stop with the swipes at each other? it’s an upsetting enough case as it is.

(not aimed at you deletedbutbackagain, the post that instigated this has been reported and is now gone)

 

[F1Grid]

She's guilty as all hell. The fact the defence so far is 'It's on the hospital' says it all.

I think some cases are stronger than others though, and she will only get convicted on some of them. Thankfully that's enough to get her locked up.

Child I is the one that thoroughly convinced me. Letby signed saying she gave 35ml of breast milk via NG 30 minutes before the child crashed, and when suctioned there was a enough air in her stomach to splint her diaphragm. Then on the next attempt the apnoea alarm was muted or disconnected, and both the ETT and NG moved after Letby was alone with her. Letby alone with her shortly before she died even though she wasn't supposed to be in the same room. Then the weird behaviour about the bath, and the sympathy card.

 

[mchammerr]

This thread moves fast enough it really does not need constant bickering. Maybe just scroll on if you feel the need to argue? Not aimed at anyone - just saying

 

[xoxo GG]

To the people who think she’s innocent, or who are currently swaying that way- what would make you switch to guilty? What do you think the jurors want if they’re to find her guilty? Because it’s sounds like there are a lot of folk who want to see CCTV of Lucy Letby pumping babies full of insulin or smothering them whilst screaming ‘I’m killing them because I’m plain evil’ before they’re willing to find her guilty!?

Oh bore off. Like has been repeated multiple times, plenty of people are willing to wait and see ALL the evidence and arguments from both sides before coming to their own conclusion, not make a decision based on the opening from the prosecution. There’s a lot yet to come and I’m waiting to hear it all, even if I might switch between guilty, not sure and innocent 639 times before then.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

So I’ve spent ages analysing the written note all day, and I have written out what I think she wrote and grouped parts together that I think may have been jotted down in the same moments sort of thing. I’ve grouped some words together, that at first glance I thought were part of different sentences, but feel are actually part of another sentence. Anyway could be wrong but this is my interpretation.

I think this section was wrote as one part -

‘There are no words. I can’t breath, I can’t focus, overwhelming fear. I haven’t done anything wrong. Police investigation forget slander, discrimination, victimisation, all getting too much. everything taking over my life (can’t work out that word)I feel very alone + scared, what does the future hold! How can I get through it. How will things ever be like they used to’.

Then I think these ones were wrote together and follow on from the above.



They can’t. I don’t deserve to live I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough and care for them + I am a horrible evil person. World is better off without me. I don’t deserve Mum + Dad Tom + Matt. I am evil I did this. I did this.

Then I think these were wrote together-

I am an awful person. I pay everyday for that. Kill my self right now.

I panic I’ll never have children or marry, I’ll never know what it’s like to have a family.

Hate my self so much for what this has…..



Then I think these were wrote the same time.

No hope
Desperate
Panic
Fear
Lost
Why me
Killing me
I did this
Hate

 

[IGiveUp22]

I think sometimes people (no one in particular here) struggle with the thinking things are “either or” when 2 things can be true at the same time as in - I don’t believe the scapegoat theory in this case but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it happens within the NHS (or anywhere else). Likewise I don’t believe the Facebook searching was innocent in this case but I do know there are occasions Facebook searching is innocent & doesn’t mean anything. Also, I think the hospital massively failed in so many ways but I also think she was possibly committing murder…it doesn’t have to be either or, it can be both

 

[stardust1]

Lets all take a moment tonight to remember the innocent victims in all of this and their family's. I thought we could show some love and support for the children, parents involved all the other babies gone far too soon 🤍

 

[Blonde_moment]

I’m so conflicted about this case. I do lean towards her being guilty, just my gut feeling on what I’ve heard so far. But, I don’t think it’s clear cut at all and I’m not sure I could say she’s guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. A lot of the evidence seems circumstantial. When I first heard about the post it note earlier I thought she’s definitely guilty. But then I reflected on it and I don’t think you can say with certainty that the note is a confession. We don’t know her state of mind when she wrote it and the context behind it. She could have been having a mental breakdown and writing down incoherent, rambling thoughts. Even saying she was evil and had done this - did she write that echoing the accusations being made about her, but in first person due to her mental state at the time? I can’t imagine writing that myself if I were innocent, but until you’re in that position and under that amount of stress, I guess you don’t know how you might react.

It’s very early days yet and I’m hoping the evidence on both sides makes this clearer. It’s awful to think she could be guilty, but get off with this, or that she could be innocent and wrongly convicted. Even if she gets a not guilty verdict, her life will be ruined I would imagine. I don’t envy the jury at all. Based on what we’ve heard so far, it wouldn’t surprise me if they can’t come to a verdict. If that happens, would there be a re-trial?

 

[Lackofimagination]

I just keep thinking of those poor babies. It’s breaking my heart! I’ll never forget falling asleep sat next to my first sons incubator my head resting on the side just exhausted and waking up to a doctor doing something to him can’t remember now, and that new mum panic that someone was trying to take my baby and then waking up properly and realising he was safe it was a doctor. I can’t imagine having that moment and then looking back years later in this sort of case and thinking Jesus they were hurting my baby. Hope you understand my word vomit lol

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

The part I struggle with massively is where they stated they moved her to days because of their suspicions! Like wtf ?! I can’t get my ahead around this. It doesn’t sit right with me and I can’t imagine any one else. So you suspect a potential murderer is on the loose during the nights and decide to switch them to days to test your theory?? How the f*ck was that allowed to happen. Who the hell approved this? I’m sorry but I think that is bullshit. For what it’s worth I don’t particularly buy her being innocent, but she sure as hell isn’t the only one who is guilty here. That scenario either never happened for the above reason, and they are using it now to suggest they were always suspicious of her (surely not). Or the unit Is entirely ran by incompetent fuck wits who equally should be held accountable, for that decision alone. Honestly I can’t shake that part of it at all. You can’t have it both ways suspect one of your nurse’s is harming babies but still allow her to work. If your suspicions were that strong you would have had her suspended and gone straight to the police. I just don’t buy it I don’t think her seniors had any suspicions at the time, I think it’s mostly hindsight and they are spinning a different narrative to try and save their arses!

My take on this is that I expect their suspicions weren't originally that she was murdering babies but more likely she was causing babies to die through negligence/general incompetence. My thoughts would be that they moved her to days so they could more effectively supervise her from a medical negligence point of view with the day shifts having more staff/senior staff around. It surely can't have been on anyone's mind initially that they were potentially dealing with a murderer.

 

[sickofsm]

I agree with some of the comments regarding Dr Evans. Not to disregard his expertise - there’s no doubt he is an experienced professional. But to portray that he is up to date with current practice in the neonatal field, when he has not practiced clinically in many years, had me raising an eyebrow.

I found his comment that he “reckons” he can still intubate a baby quite jarring. And “babies do not change in the approach of their conditions…” Well, yes they do, because how we manage and treat them has changed itself.

Neonates is ever-evolving. Year on year. Babies are surviving earlier, smaller, longer. New treatments and ways of managing morbidities are introduced all the time. The past decade has seen a massive shift in neonatal care. The past 5 years, respiratory management has drastically changed. Even in the past year a new respiratory treatment has become the new norm!

Neonates is STILL a relatively new profession. That might sound odd to some, but the idea of nursing an adult, for example, has been around for hundreds of years. If you’ve been off the NICU for more than a decade, then I’m sorry, but you are out of practice. At least acknowledge that.
And no, intubating a mannequin absolutely does not have the same “atmosphere” as intubating a sick or tiny infant in real life.

I think his expertise in child safeguarding will be useful.
I am interested to hear what the upcoming consultant neonatologist has to say.