Jeremy Clarkson

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lilyannrose

I, too, had no idea "far east" is supposedly an offensive term. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone claim it is.

As much as I dislike Clarkson and his ilk, I am sometimes just as uncomfortable with the constant and extreme language policing. From what I see it often just causes further division rather than heal any rifts but, more importantly, doesn't ever genuinely seem to be about sensitivity but a tactic used to close down discussion people don't like.
 
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plinky2

lilyannrose said:
I, too, had no idea "far east" is supposedly an offensive term. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone claim it is.

As much as I dislike Clarkson and his ilk, I am sometimes just as uncomfortable with the constant and extreme language policing. From what I see it often just causes further division rather than heal any rifts but, more importantly, doesn't ever genuinely seem to be about sensitivity but a tactic used to close down discussion people don't like.
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If this is aimed at me, it wasn’t me who made a fuss about this. I did say there is no such thing as mixed race which is a scientific fact, not one of my own snooty opinion 😑. All humans are the same race, aka human so the term is outdated but still used as a descriptor and is a class based societal system
 
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YetAnotherObsessionx

YetAnotherObsessionx

Lady_H said:
perceived racism, sexism and every other -ism under the sun
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Almost every thread on Tattle contains at least one of these, it seems OK to write comments about anybody famous on here so why not elsewhere... being a non-Brit in Britain I've been the 'victim' of many insults or ignorant comments over the years (face to face, not as a written comment in some newspaper that I don't have to read), I guess now I could sue someone for causing me mental health issues, or I could just ignore and move on. Of course I'm not famous so I can only imagine what it must be like to have one's life under constant scrutiny and to have strangers write horrible things about you on a daily basis... but I don't for a moment believe that JC actually wants to see MM naked on any street. I still like him in the context that I see him in. I didn't like that he punched his colleague and he was correctly fired for that. But, I liked the emotion he showed about his sheep, and the pride he showed in his daughter getting married. Incidentally I also feel a bit sad that his daughter felt she had to make that point to say she didn't agree with what he wrote. Who on Earth would think that she would!
 
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plinky2

Like you say, he punched someone and still is presenting game shows and on prime time TV. At least he likes sheep
 
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lilyannrose

plinky2 said:
If this is aimed at me, it wasn’t me who made a fuss about this. I did say there is no such thing as mixed race which is a scientific fact, not one of my own snooty opinion 😑. All humans are the same race, aka human so the term is outdated but still used as a descriptor and is a class based societal system
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It's not aimed at any one person, just a general exasperation with unrealistic expectations. I find it really stressful that we have to know exactly the proper thing to say at all times and that innocent mistakes can and have cost livelihoods.

Of course, that is not to downplay the seriousness and prevelance of bigotry and those who not only don't even try but actively offend as much as possible like it's noble or something.
 
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YetAnotherObsessionx

YetAnotherObsessionx

plinky2 said:
Like you say, he punched someone and still is presenting game shows and on prime time TV. At least he likes sheep
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Well, a guy at my husband's work punched someone there, got fired, and now works for another company in the same industry, so what's the solution, is he supposed to not work again or only do jobs that are something entirely different? Dunno if he likes sheep, though - maybe if I knew, I'd care more about what he does/doesn't do now😜
 
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plinky2

YetAnotherObsessionx said:
Well, a guy at my husband's work punched someone there, got fired, and now works for another company in the same industry, so what's the solution, is he supposed to not work again or only do jobs that are something entirely different? Dunno if he likes sheep, though - maybe if I knew, I'd care more about what he does/doesn't do now😜
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I haven’t punched anyone, but losing your job seems a light consequence really, it’s a criminal act of violence to punch someone and it’s not like he’s gone on to appear to be a nicer person. There are loads of men in showbiz who come out of these scandals pretty much ok, and some who don’t. The fact JC has anger issues is still apparent in his writing, in my opinion which is why I did not like what he wrote, I don’t like his attitude. I don’t like aggressive, entitled men. And that’s ok

I am baffled by why so many people are such rabid fans of his despite this though

lilyannrose said:
It's not aimed at any one person, just a general exasperation with unrealistic expectations. I find it really stressful that we have to know exactly the proper thing to say at all times and that innocent mistakes can and have cost livelihoods.

Of course, that is not to downplay the seriousness and prevelance of bigotry and those who not only don't even try but actively offend as much as possible like it's noble or something.
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This is just education. Being older isn’t an excuse not to take something on board, you always learn new things in life and society changes over time whether people like it or not, you can’t stop time just because it doesn’t suit you, it just carries on without you. There is a long history of injustices and crimes that are being set right in modern times and wording and phrasing has adapted. People are not trying to be smug to point out misinformation and try to prevent the mistakes of the past repeating themselves. I’m sorry that it seems unrealistic, a genuine mistake is something to learn from, to keep repeating it to prove a point is just being offensive. JC is well aware of what causes offence, he is purposefully offensive, some people clearly like it as a power trip.
 
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YetAnotherObsessionx

YetAnotherObsessionx

Rockin' Robin said:
People seem to be so tetchy these days.
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Yep, it does feel like there are at least as many people who enjoy being offended, as there are those who enjoy being offensive. Well, at least on the internet (or sports radio phone-ins, according to my husband) it does, anyway.
 
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Flowergirl14

Lady_H said:
You don’t need to apologise for anything and I for one am completely unoffended. I like JC too, I will continue to like him, and I find the endless nitpicking and blathering on about perceived racism, sexism and every other -ism under the sun where none exists absolutely ridiculous. My post about the “Far East” was not intended to be taken seriously (although I have absolutely been accused of racism in my academic day job for using that term). I was taking the piss of that type of authoritarian idiocy where posters on this thread have accused others of racism and misogyny based on absolutely duck-all, and the insanity of identity politics in which you can never be politically correct enough.
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I love your comment…. You can never be politically correct enough!
 
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lilyannrose

plinky2 said:
This is just education. Being older isn’t an excuse not to take something on board, you always learn new things in life and society changes over time whether people like it or not, you can’t stop time just because it doesn’t suit you, it just carries on without you. There is a long history of injustices and crimes that are being set right in modern times and wording and phrasing has adapted. People are not trying to be smug to point out misinformation and try to prevent the mistakes of the past repeating themselves. I’m sorry that it seems unrealistic, a genuine mistake is something to learn from, to keep repeating it to prove a point is just being offensive. JC is well aware of what causes offence, he is purposefully offensive, some people clearly like it as a power trip.
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I understand all that but I'm talking about the kind of thing where one innocently misplaced word can get your life ruined. I think it's very unrealistic to expect people to live that way but you hear more and more that this happens.

Someone like Clarkson, who clearly takes a lot of pleasure in provoking offense as much as he can get away with it, is a whole different thing and I am not on that side at all.
 
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Lady_H

plinky2 said:
This is just education. Being older isn’t an excuse not to take something on board, you always learn new things in life and society changes over time whether people like it or not, you can’t stop time just because it doesn’t suit you, it just carries on without you. There is a long history of injustices and crimes that are being set right in modern times and wording and phrasing has adapted. People are not trying to be smug to point out misinformation and try to prevent the mistakes of the past repeating themselves. I’m sorry that it seems unrealistic, a genuine mistake is something to learn from, to keep repeating it to prove a point is just being offensive. JC is well aware of what causes offence, he is purposefully offensive, some people clearly like it as a power trip.
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Here we go with the “educating older posters” nonsense. How hilariously predictable you are.

Offence is entirely subjective. You know what I find offensive? Hijacking threads in order to indulge oneself in lengthy personal diatribes about racism that have nothing to do with the actual topic. Accusing other posters of ignorance when they don’t immediately agree with you. Announcing that only posters of certain ethnicities get to decide what racism is. Suggesting that articles such as JC’s should be criminalised. Making massive pejorative generalisations about large groups of people based on their skin colour, sex, and what they choose to read.

I find all that pretty offensive, but so what? I don’t expect you to be “educated” because you’re not living up to my personal standards of acceptable behaviour. I’m quite resilient enough to live with it and I’ll also defend your right to come out with all that rubbish because in a free country you have the right to say it. I wonder if you will afford others the same respect?
 
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HairyWeeTerrier

HairyWeeTerrier

plinky2 said:
This thread feels like a load of people talking double speak and double think in a very strange way. We can all have our own opinions and dislike each other’s opinions. You don’t need to go full Miss Marple picking apart every line sentence by sentence to try to find a ‘gotcha’ on me, I mean fill your boots if it makes you happy but I am not obliged to converse with you anymore if you can’t have a polite well reasoned 2 way discussion and can ignore.

I’m not going to change my mind, I think JC as a TV presenter on a show is something I can avoid - I don’t have to watch it, and it’s not really causing any harm to anyone from him presenting a game show, but when it comes to the main stream media, these views do have a wider reach, which are not simply avoidable, and they are damaging. Frankly he just makes himself look awful. his appeal is certainly ‘for a certain type’ of person who thinks Nigel Farage is an ok guy. He isn’t a serious journalist with integrity he is just a greedy man who wants to get paid, he doesn’t care about what he writes or the effect it has on anyone and in this way I don’t take him seriously - he is no one important, apart from his own pompous self importance.

The worst thing is watching all these pompous self important media types stomp around peacocking each other, he is just louder, more coarse and vulgar than the other types everyone is complaining about - they all just have big egos, think they are important and will sell out for cash. Some just do it more quietly. You are all arguing as if there are 2 sides, firstly is not a war, secondly these people are all cut from the same cloth
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For someone who desires a polite well reasoned discussion, I feel that your posts do not reflect that. I find your manner very dictatorial and judgemental. Saying that men who like Clarkson and read the Sun are highly likely to dislike women. Now saying that his appeal is “for certain types”. There must be a great number of these certain types, because he has had great success over many years. Your comment that a man having his hand cut off is a lesser punishment than a naked woman having excrement thrown at her is an opinion that I doubt many would share. Please do not feel obliged to converse with us anymore, because we can chat away to each other without you. Your rather dogmatic dictates are unlikely to be missed.
 
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wibble

wibble

plinky2 said:
This thread feels like a load of people talking double speak and double think in a very strange way. We can all have our own opinions and dislike each other’s opinions. You don’t need to go full Miss Marple picking apart every line sentence by sentence to try to find a ‘gotcha’ on me, I mean fill your boots if it makes you happy but I am not obliged to converse with you anymore if you can’t have a polite well reasoned 2 way discussion and can ignore.

I’m not going to change my mind, I think JC as a TV presenter on a show is something I can avoid - I don’t have to watch it, and it’s not really causing any harm to anyone from him presenting a game show, but when it comes to the main stream media, these views do have a wider reach, which are not simply avoidable, and they are damaging. Frankly he just makes himself look awful. his appeal is certainly ‘for a certain type’ of person who thinks Nigel Farage is an ok guy. He isn’t a serious journalist with integrity he is just a greedy man who wants to get paid, he doesn’t care about what he writes or the effect it has on anyone and in this way I don’t take him seriously - he is no one important, apart from his own pompous self importance.

The worst thing is watching all these pompous self important media types stomp around peacocking each other, he is just louder, more coarse and vulgar than the other types everyone is complaining about - they all just have big egos, think they are important and will sell out for cash. Some just do it more quietly. You are all arguing as if there are 2 sides, firstly is not a war, secondly these people are all cut from the same cloth
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I agree.

Where I disagree is that this affair is part of a pattern.
The difference being that when Allison P Davis, and more latterly Joanna Weiss, (and there have been others) where attacked, the borg of UK liberal twitter didn't embark on a moral witch hunt: and demand mob justice.
And we could ask why...
Or we could just pretend...

But as you say people are not going to change their tune.
 
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Weathergirl

Weathergirl

Goodness, there are a lot of sanctimonious opinions expressed on this thread..on both "sides". But, Clarkson is a t*at IMO. Megan is likely to be a Narc, IMO. However I have not yet decided whether I like her or not. I do believe the right wing media is targeting her with racist motives. However I also believe a white person is capable of considering the definition of racism, irrespective of whether they have ever experienced racism, and forming a view as to whether or not a particular behaviour, word or action amounts to racism. They may be incorrect in that opinion, but they are entitled to have and express it.
 
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