Jack Monroe #44 Spoiler

[chocolate choux]

The class in the UK is different though, but Jack is far more obsessed with it than your average bod. She also liked to go for the pantomine Victorian urchin approach to poverty, rather than explore any genuine issues such as the plight of the working poor, landlords not maintaining their property (I'd imagine literally too close to home, that one!) etc.

Very good point about landlords - didn’t she claim to move like 18+ times? Probably another exaggeration but I’d believe she moved around a fair amount, and the reasons for doing so were either evictions or the properties being / becoming unsuitable. Surely she’d have a shitload to say about the state of landlordism in the UK

I had heard of others having issues before, but didn’t have much experience renting until last year. Moved into my current place, something broke that should have been the landlord’s responsibility. He claimed it wasn’t, estate agents backed him up. I contacted the inventory clerk to ask if I’d misunderstood the document. She confirmed I hadn’t with the caveat “but ultimately it’s up to the landlord”. What’s the point in writing a legal document to make sure things are fair if the dominant party is just going to change the rules later on?

Relatively minor issue but it fucked me off because it lead to me realising that renters have few rights. Then I started reading about other people’s experiences and then the whole concept of landlordism and I don’t want to be involved anymore but I can’t exactly opt out (which is part of the problem)

Anyway, very suspect that there’s barely a peep out of Jack regarding such an important issue, especially for the poor

*gif of me (represented by Matt Hancock) flipping through The Communist Mainfesto*

 

[Pocahontas]

omg those forums can be intense, I ended up on some sort of DIY x trades person hybrid forum asking for advice on a dodgy bit of coving and I came away thinking the house was a condemned shithole! When our actual plasterer came out he was like yeah this is fine! I don’t know if they’re just trolls over there?

Just came back from a hosp appt to scan the baby (I’ve suddenly shot up in size and bump is lower) and had been told the wrong day, struggling with sleep at the mo so feel a bit rudderless on whether to go back to sleep now, attempt a nap, or have another tit day exhausted

I remember the last month or so of pregnancy being really hard for sleeping all through the night, for loads of reasons. Catch a nap when you can

My husband is aware I’m on here but I can’t remember what I told him about it. Im
a little embarrassed about it but I don’t know why? Sali Hughes brought me here with her Freaky Friday video, fell into the MOD/FOD threads and then discovered the gift that keeps on giving that is our Jack.

I'm quite a loner by nature and like others have a small group of friends but I’m not one for catch ups over the phone and I’m terrible at messaging people. Tattle has been wonderful for keeping me distracted and amused in these challenging times. You’re all so wonderfully articulate, hilarious and compassionate and I’ve actually learnt quite a lot from being here.

I for one love this cabal

Babe, SAME for all of this.

 

[Raker]

Oh I’ve been on here too much /affected more than I think!

Spoiler: Twitter trending alarm

saw RIP JACK trending, and just for a moment....

... anyway, Jack Charlton, RIP

... anyway, phew

 

[TheDragonWithAFlagon]

Morning!

Had a rather lovely night's sleep - according to my phone, a whole 9 hours for probably the second time in about, ooh, twenty years, which following the previous night's 7 hours, is leaving me feeling slightly shellshocked.

Moreover, I don't think I moved once either night. Although the niceness of my new silk pillowcase might have helped that.

Anyhow, back to the WC - MC discussion.


I was the lowest of the low. Not foreign holidays vs UK ones. No holidays. No visits to relatives unless she was in hospital. One day trip (10-4pm including the 2h trip there and back by bus and train) to the nearest seaside a year. No music lessons once a book was expected to be bought. No ballet lessons. If you couldn't get somewhere by catching the nearest bus and one onward connection, it didn't exist. No grammar school or private scholarship + bursary. No school trips if the school wasn't prepared to pay for them and an outright refusal for a free one that involved a trip overseas. We were poor, so 'we' didn't do those things. They weren't for 'us', anymore than staying on at school was. You didn't redecorate and have Artex ceilings, you didn't decorate at all. A fitted carpet was unheard of. Curtains that did more than just nearly meet where the smallest possible size was stretched on a wire were unheard of. Lampshades were unheard of. - you didn't turn the light on anyway because a lamp downstairs was sufficient and probably cheaper and the ones in the bedroom weren't on because you could use the landing light to see by (but you weren't allowed to turn that on after it had been switched off for the night). A bath was never more than once a week and showers or washing hair was weird and continental and showing off that you had money.


That's why she's so pathetic. She has all that educational, social and attitudinal capital. She was short of money for a short time and resents it bitterly. It was a taste of reality and she didn't like it one bit - well, nobody does. But that doesn't mean she was ever anything than a spoiled MC girl not having a jolly old time for a change and for a brief period.

 

[choccydigestive]

When you look back at her replies on that day, they range from chippy, but trying to be reasonable / passive aggressive (‘I actually have work to do’), then she tried to appeal to us all by using some of our in-jokes (‘your honour’, ‘nims’). When she realised the tide was never going to turn her way, she got rude (calling Harry entitled), aggressive (saying the above to Begborrow), and stubborn (Shan’t!). People here had had enough and just telling to go away, ffs - but she wouldn’t. She was on one.
I wonder if she regrets it?

I think she massively does! At times it seems like she was almost thinking she could be part of a gang and I think that was tempting. On Twitter her interactions are either full arse licking (her to blue tickers or non-tick followers to her) or vile insults. Here she thought she’d come in and say her piece and say she’d done battle against the trolls, but I think she started to realise that we were actually pretty reasonable and fair and funny and honest and take-no-tit. I honestly think she wanted to come back and would’ve done if admin hadn’t stepped in.

Loving the insights into the guff other halves and family members watch while we’re tattling! The caravans and plastering! Mine watches endless droning videos of planes coming into land from the perspective of the cockpit YAWN

 

[MellowD]

I cannot find much about Jack on Landlords and the evils of, funnily enough.

Whilst looking found an old blog from 2012, where in amongst talk of removing lightbulbs she still managed to share this.

"People ask me how I can be so strong. People say to me that they admire my spirit."

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

Very good point about landlords - didn’t she claim to move like 18+ times? Probably another exaggeration but I’d believe she moved around a fair amount, and the reasons for doing so were either evictions or the properties being / becoming unsuitable. Surely she’d have a shitload to say about the state of landlordism in the UK

I had heard of others having issues before, but didn’t have much experience renting until last year. Moved into my current place, something broke that should have been the landlord’s responsibility. He claimed it wasn’t, estate agents backed him up. I contacted the inventory clerk to ask if I’d misunderstood the document. She confirmed I hadn’t with the caveat “but ultimately it’s up to the landlord”. What’s the point in writing a legal document to make sure things are fair if the dominant party is just going to change the rules later on?

Relatively minor issue but it fucked me off because it lead to me realising that renters have few rights. Then I started reading about other people’s experiences and then the whole concept of landlordism and I don’t want to be involved anymore but I can’t exactly opt out (which is part of the problem)

Anyway, very suspect that there’s barely a peep out of Jack regarding such an important issue, especially for the poor

*gif of me (represented by Matt Hancock) flipping through The Communist Mainfesto*

She daren’t start on the subject because then the fact her dad is a landlord of multiple properties will come out. It’s all made up bollocks, again she won’t acknowledge her privilege of: landlord father, being MC enough that your parents can serve as guarantors (and are willing to!), being white and MC so landlords / agents will accept your offer on a property, being alright (yes, even in the “poverty days!”) enough that you don’t end up in an illegal/dangerous property as many BAME or immigrant people do as agents / landlords assume they don’t know their rights to safe housing or won’t / can’t complain.

She is gross honestly the more I think about what a cosplaying head she is the worse it gets

 

[Pocahontas]

I think she massively does! At times it seems like she was almost thinking she could be part of a gang and I think that was tempting. On Twitter her interactions are either full arse licking (her to blue tickers or non-tick followers to her) or vile insults. Here she thought she’d come in and say her piece and say she’d done battle against the trolls, but I think she started to realise that we were actually pretty reasonable and fair and funny and honest and take-no-tit. I honestly think she wanted to come back and would’ve done if admin hadn’t stepped in.

Loving the insights into the guff other halves and family members watch while were tattling! The caravans and plastering! Mine watches endless droning videos of planes coming into land from the perspective of the cockpit YAWN

Agree with you about her maybe wanting to join in ‘the gang’. Some of her replies made me genuinely feel sorry for her on the day - when she said that she was feeling numb and she hated her pics on the sideboard.

I think she would have come back too (I reckon she still reads here though)

That’s hilarious about the cockpit videos mine likes to watch old famous boxing videos and funny fails

 

[blurstoftimes]

I think her depiction of poverty doesn’t sit right with me because it’s always focused on the most specific story rather than more of an encompassing experience. With the 17p kidney bean thing, I feel like maybe that happened once and she has chosen to make that the focal point because all in all she managed to get out of poverty and become an actual paid columnist and celebrity chef relatively quickly?! Most people I knew at 24/25 were still working in call centres or unpaid internships upon realising that a degree does not guarantee a job!

 

[OhhBacon]

We have a massive problem here in the UK, and I know it will be the case in most other countries too, with class discrimination.
It troubles me very much. The divide that exists between wc and mc people from the moment they're conceived to their death (and beyond) is appalling, and only grows wider. It makes me absolutely sick that I live in a country which has such a huge disparity in standard of living, opportunity and basic humanity. Worse than that, the complete lack of interest, compassion or thought given to those trapped in the system they can never beat.

Totally agree with this, I am middle class. I can’t deny it, I have a professional job and own my house (well it’s mortgaged), I regularly go to the theatre and galleries, am well travelled and am not in intimidated to eat in nice restaurants. It is how I grew up and it is how I live now, my job and finances are secure. Yes I worked hard at school and university but I simply didn’t have to overcome any adversity, I just had to ‘not duck up’.

I don’t say this to be arrogant but I say it because I fully and wholly recognise my privilege.
As a nation we are obsessed with class but we just don’t discuss the impact that it has on people’s life’s. I work in an environment where I come across lots of people across the class divide, from upper to working. What concerns me is the complete lack of understanding of privilege and the challenge of social mobility.

I have a particular issue with the myth that is; ‘you just have to work hard’ it simply isn’t true. If a child is growing up on a challenging estate and goes to a school that has poor educational outcomes and no role models then the simplistic ‘work hard’ isn’t enough. There is so much work to do in this area, she has a voice and could use it.
There is no hard work going in to your birth situation it is simply the luck of the draw and sadly that draw sets up so many people’s life path.
*I could talk about this subject for hours!

That's why she's so pathetic. She has all that educational, social and attitudinal capital. She was short of money for a short time and resents it bitterly. It was a taste of reality and she didn't like it one bit - well, nobody does. But that doesn't mean she was ever anything than a spoiled MC girl not having a jolly old time for a change and for a brief period.

This is exactly what I think.

 

[Marmalade Atkins]

Latest Twitter stats.

 

[OhhBacon]

Just to say the reason I came on this morning was to rave a bit more about Matt Forearms. Am watching Saturday Kitchen again and the stark contrast between this and the daily one never fails to amaze me.
Matt is just lovely, witty and relaxed with delightful guests who know about their food and are confident. I genuinely think if Jack hadn’t been on DK it would have ran for more of lockdown.
*His hair looks a bit scruffy and he has an air of a hangover this morning,

 

[MellowD]

I was working class and poor when I passed my 11+ to go to Westcliff High.
All very well getting there, however when 99% of the school come from very comfortably off backgrounds, you stick out when you have absolutely duck all and a chaotic home life.. I did not fit in, and was chucked out after two years. I was 12/13 years old .

I did not even get the chance to get 4 1/2 O Levels.

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Totally agree with this, I am middle class. I can’t deny it, I have a professional job and own my house (well it’s mortgaged), I regularly go to the theatre and galleries, am well travelled and am not in intimidated to eat in nice restaurants. It is how I grew up and it is how I live now, my job and finances are secure. Yes I worked hard at school and university but I simply didn’t have to overcome any adversity, I just had to ‘not duck up’.

I don’t say this to be arrogant but I say it because I fully and wholly recognise my privilege.
As a nation we are obsessed with class but we just don’t discuss the impact that it has on people’s life’s. I work in an environment where I come across lots of people across the class divide, from upper to working. What concerns me is the complete lack of understanding of privilege and the challenge of social mobility.

I have a particular issue with the myth that is; ‘you just have to work hard’ it simply isn’t true. If a child is growing up on a challenging estate and goes to a school that has poor educational outcomes and no role models then the simplistic ‘work hard’ isn’t enough. There is so much work to do in this area, she has a voice and could use it.
There is no hard work going in to your birth situation it is simply the luck of the draw and sadly that draw sets up so many people’s life path.
*I could talk about this subject for hours!



This is exactly what I think.

Yes

The idea that its as simple as 'work hard' is just ignorant. Thats what I find so funny about the tories; they talk about making work pay, they provide opportunities but you just need to work hard... coming from some of the most privileged & entitled people around who didnt have to work hard like SO many others have to.

 

[crystaleyesd]

Class in this country is fascinating, and mostly responsible for some truly awful snobbery and nastiness and entitlement. Never having a proper revolution means that it's unlikely we'll shake free of these ridiculous hierarchies (and our love of dissecting them) any time soon.

I struggle to define my own class tbh. I was born working class but my mum had serious social climbing tendencies and was a proper snob (Maggie Thatcher was her role model...go figure ). Thing is, we didn't really have any money. Holidays were always in the UK, or occasionally we'd get the ferry to France so we could play at being middle class. I was sent to private school on a scholarship, but I was always the poor kid who rarely got to do any of the extra curricular stuff. I remember when I reached 17, the amount of people who got brand new cars as birthday presents was mind-blowing. I didn't even learn how to drive until 21 and I was earning my own money. BUT what that school did give me was a sense of entitlement that, yes, I *could* go to university - in fact, you were basically outcast if you didn't go to university at that school, because they were desperate to maintain their standing in the school league tables. So I did - first in my family to go onto higher education.

Now I'm about to finish my PhD and get my first academic job and I don't think I can claim working class status anymore. I still speak with my accent and yes, there are MANY situations and experiences where I feel like I don't fit in, but my tastes have become seriously middle class. I enjoy opera for gods sake. I go to Tuscany on holiday. I shop in Cos. Now when I visit my extended family I feel a bit judged for being a class traitor - I'm sure none of them are actually thinking that, but I kinda put that on myself. It's this weird limbo and it's ridiculous that I even give it a second thought. But that's our obsession with class in this country .

 

[acca00]

I cannot find much about Jack on Landlords and the evils of, funnily enough.

That's a really good point. Labour always talk about private landlords, private rented accommodation. You'd think it would be a bandwagon for Jack to jump on - to do the "poor me", "look at my landlord" routine. But nothing. I have a suspicion it's a family-owned property, her father's or someone else's.

 

[OhhBacon]

I was working class and poor when I passed my 11+ to go to Westcliff High.
All very well getting there, however when 99% of the school come from very comfortably off backgrounds, you stick out when you have absolutely duck all and a chaotic home life.. I did not fit in, and was chucked out after two years. I was 12/13 years old .

I did not even get the chance to get 4 1/2 O Levels.

This next comment might be quite outing for me...hope Jack is too busy to triangulate.

Some of the problem in this situation is that the majority of teachers come from stable MC backgrounds. I say the majority, I know not all do but most.

This means that there can be and often is little understanding of the challenges some children have to overcome. I worked in a school where some children didn’t come back in September because the mum couldn’t afford uniform. Yes there was discussion in the staff room about benefits but whilst that chat happened a colleague and me went and picked up the children, took them to the supermarket and bought them uniform. Back in school in an hour. The ability of those children to do homework in a large chaotic household wasn’t understood by the teacher who rolled their eyes when it wasn’t handed in again.

I think awareness is changing in education, I am not saying the whole profession is blind to this but I can believe that when you were at Grammar school it wasn’t there.

 

[Alansbigplate]

I just had another look, it's pretty bad.

My favourite quote was from @blurstoftimes "Don't talk to me like a head, mate. You've made a show of yourself."

I’m retrospectively so proud of them all I couldn’t bear to join in just cringed along silently

 

[Toffee finger]

My husband knows about tattle. He isn’t a forum user but will sometime ask what the latest is on “that tittle tattle website thingy”. I found Tattle when someone mentioned the MOD drama on a Facebook group. Then saw there was a Disney In Detail thread (who I used to liked but was starting to find annoying) so I stuck around. I used to watch her and few other Florida vloggers with my husband so he is always interested in the latest on any of those people.
I’ve told him the main bad points about Jack and he always agrees with us!


I agree that I think Jack was hoping to turn us around and include her in the gang.

 

[HarderFaster]

My boyfriend does know I Tattle, I even told him my username and showed him our Jackie's contributions on thread 31. He thinks she's a massive cock but he's so laid back I doubt he will ever care enough to do much else about it. No judgement from him on how I spend my online time: he plays Dungeons and Dragons every week and I listen to what's gone on in the campaigns.

She's suspiciously quiet and I don't like it.