Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evans #52 More projection than a silent movie theater

[KikiFromNy]

@KikiFromNy your post was very brave and honest. I want to give you kudos. I do not believe infidelity is the worst thing that can happen in a marriage. It is more usually the symptom of a disease in the marriage - sometimes the disease can be arrested if the body of the marriage is sound. But if the body of the marriage is already corrupted, there is no hope

Thank you. When there is infidelity, generally both the cheater and cheated on, need to look in the mirror. Of course some cheaters are just assholes so there is that.
But emotional abuse creates a special kind of hell. It was 1993 when I broke my ankle but just pulling that memory up to try and describe how it can make you make feel left me shaking.

 

[brie l]

Have been sat on my hands all morning with my mother's voice whispering in my ear 'if you can't say something nice, then say nothing at all.'

But I've decided to say something and will be in a total minority here and am prepared to be shouted down or to walk away from here.

I won't go into my personal story here, but I'd just like to say that it has taken me many years to find my voice and I am still practising so please bear with me.

I am really sorry that Bianca is living with MS. I have people in my life who have it and many years post diagnosis they are well and living full and active lives. It is not the death sentence it once was and the prognosis is very good. Diet, exercise and lifestyle choices help to keep the people I know healthy and well.

I guess my problem with Bianca is from a moral judgement point of view and I am also including Ioan in this view. As Welp says above, she is not convinced of the nature of how their relationship came to be. We have no evidence of timelines either way and this is what plays on my mind. If Bianca knowingly had an affair with a married man, then in my mind that is really crappy behaviour and her diagnosis of MS does not give her a 'get out of jail free' card. I can have sympathy for her diagnosis, but I can also still say that her behaviour is appalling and totally crappy. Just as I can have sympathy for Alice because Ioan cheated on her but can also think her behaviour over the last year has been cruel and undignified.

I think the part that doesn't sit well with me about Bianca's behaviour is my ability to put myself in another person's shoes and feel the consequences of her behaviour. Before I continue, I will just state that if I find evidence she is totally innocent then I will apologise to all and sundry. I know myself well enough to know I could not be magnanimous to another women if she had an affair with my husband even if she did have a medical condition. I would definitely leave my husband if I found out and I know I would act with more dignity than Alice but I could not accept the situation just because the woman had a medical condition. I like to think I am pretty evolved but I aint that evolved, I have limits.

The other thing that I feel really uncomfortable about is Bianca's video about her condition. Despite trying to portray a message of 'positivity,' I got an undercurrent of 'poor me.' Poor me, this is what I deal with and leave me alone Alice and those that dislike me.

I am a lot older than Bianca and maybe it's a generational thing but I don't get the whole sharing your life on social media stuff. If you are a big movie star then yes, people have always loved looking into the lives of the rich and famous. I used to love looking at magazines with a relative, at the pictures and write ups of Hollywood stars, you dreamed, you aspired and it was escapism. But Bianca is or was an accountant who had done some 'extra' type work on a series, she is not a movie star. I do have an instagram account but it is private for my family and friends so we can share family and friends photos with each other. There is no need for anyone else to see them, they are private and we are private.

Some may say that Bianca is inspirational and I can see why they would say that. She was diagnosed with a medical condition and decided to make some life changes. I guess for me, I'm more an action kind of gal than a word one. I don't tell people about my achievements, words are cheap and plentiful, actions require hard work and speak from themselves.

I lost a very dear person a few months ago. I have known them for over 20 years. I didn't know until the end of their life that they were dying of cancer. They had been fighting it for 6 years. This very dear person was an action kind of person. I found out that once they had received their diagnosis they chose to keep it quiet. They didn't want sympathy, they didn't want to appear to be a victim. They took the treatment, they took the medication and the only people who knew were the people who were treating them. They raised over a million pounds for charity in those 6 years from diagnosis to death. Their focus was on service, on what little life they had left and how they could use it to serve others.

I could easily understand if they had gone into self pity mode and would have willingly comforted them in that place. But they chose dignity and service of others as their legacy. And that is how I will remember them.

Experience had taught me that actions speak so much louder than words. Yes, a wonderful piece of prose will transport me but actions will either earn my respect or disdain. Bianca's actions to date have not earned my respect. Knowingly choosing to have an affair with a married man to me is disdainful. You are choosing to hurt another human being with your actions.

You can rationalise your actions by telling yourself the recipient isn't a nice person or that they deserve the consequences of your actions. But do they? As evolved human beings with some semblance of emotional intelligence can we really say that the values that form out moral compass are dependent on other's behaviours? I despise violence unless you support another football team, then my violence towards you is justified. Are we so easily swayed? I'd like to think I wasn't.

I place high value on fidelity. It is important to me. If you want to be unfaithful then leave your current relationship, there are no exceptions. It will cause hurt, it will cause pain but it is about respect for the other person. You owe that other person respect not humilation.

Bianca chose to cause hurt to another human being because she considered her needs were more important than the person she chose to hurt. Her actions were not about service of others, her actions were and are about service to self.

All three parties is this sordid tale have questionable behavoiurs and as I've said before, Alice shouts the loudest and gets the most attention. Just because you shout the loudest doesn't necessarily mean you are the worst. More damage is often done in the darkness of the night than in glare of the sun.

Although I don't have the same opinion as you on some of the points you made, you wrote this post with great eloquence and consideration for your words. Your put your view across in a well thought out, calm and respectful post. I read your post multiple times, very well done @enasharples

 

[claudiarocks]

A lot of people play soccer but not everyone is a Cristiano Ronaldo.

What sat on a bench.. waiting for a bus to Brentford mid week CITY !!!

 

[Nixlondon]

Well, I've had a lot happen in my life too, and I still think cheating is a big deal. So I don't think that's necessarily a good explanation and I'm a little confused about how being pragmatic in life makes infidelity less serious or upsetting. I wouldn't let it end me, of course not, or alienate the other parent over it, but I'd be devastated and I still don't believe it's right.

I find it's getting a bit upsetting to talk about actually, maybe because I'm newly engaged and pregnant, or maybe just shocked at how many people seem to not think it's a big deal and totally justifiable in the right situation or if the person cheated on deserves it. In any case, I'm gonna check out for tonight and maybe tune in tomorrow to see if there are any updates.

I am sorry you are feeling triggered. Infidelity is a big deal. I was cheated on by my husband and it nearly destroyed me. But it also made me really look at the relationship. And it was not good, despite how I 'wanted' it to be. The fact he has never been able to manage a relationship after me did make me feel better, but I still recognise it was not great at the end. We go into marriage expecting it will never fail, but the stats do not lie. Half of them fail. There are key things that can cause failure though, and recognising them is important. One of the most important books I ever read is "Why marriages succeed or fail" by John M. Gottman (PhD). He spent 20 years doing scientific research on what makes a good marriage. One of the best things I have ever read in my life.

 

[Perplexity]

I agree with you it doesn’t seem like a smart move.
Plus stage actors are usually highly esteemed. Perhaps, it was related to his panic attacks? Just speculating of course.
ETA I left a career in television because of panic attacks.

Maybe it was a scheduling thing? Theatre runs can be months and months, and you work every single day for not nearly as much money as a film role. I can understand giving film auditions a go and not wanting to be tied to a theatre contract even if it meant turning down some good stuff for the time being. I’d love to know what the roles were though! It’s so interesting seeing actors on stage when you’ve only seen them on tv before.

 

[Caitlyn130]

I am sorry you are feeling triggered. Infidelity is a big deal. I was cheated on by my husband and it nearly destroyed me. But it also made me really look at the relationship. And it was not good, despite how I 'wanted' it to be. The fact he has never been able to manage a relationship after me did make me feel better, but I still recognise it was not great at the end. We go into marriage expecting it will never fail, but the stats do not lie. Half of them fail. There are key things that can cause failure though, and recognising them is important. One of the most important books I ever read is "Why marriages succeed or fail" by John M. Gottman (PhD). He spent 20 years doing scientific research on what makes a good marriage. One of the best things I have ever read in my life.

I'm sorry you went through that. I completely agree with what many people have said about cheating being a symptom of a bad relationship. I have never been cheated on (to my knowledge, anyway!) so I can't say I know what it would feel like.

However, I just resent the implication in some posts that if being faithful and ending a relationship before embarking on a new one is important to you, it's because you don't have life experience. And once you have life experience / are older, cheating will become less of a big deal. I think everyone can recognise that life isn't black and white and that cheating happens and isn't always unforgivable, while also feeling it's a big deal, serious, and should be avoided at all costs - no matter how much life experience you've got.

 

[Bewdley]

"He has not worked for a couple of months and turned down major theatre roles to take film parts that have failed to materialise."

To be honest, this seems...not smart. Major theatre roles, presumably in the West End? And for film parts that weren't even guaranteed? I think he could be a lot further on in his career now if he'd spent some time doing theatre and then moved to Hollywood in a much stronger position, with an impressive body of theatre work and a name that was more well known.

I agree with this. If you look at Damian Lewis and Rufus Sewell (there are probably loads more good Brit actors of a similar generation) both have done stage, DL especially and I think both have healthier careers because of it. I think the cachet and broadsheet reviews makes them more desirable. To the best of my knowledge, neither of those two (fine) actors can sing, lots can't, which might give IG a bit of a selling point should he want it.

Could imagine him as Macheath in the Beggars Opera.

 

[KikiFromNy]

Maybe it was a scheduling thing? Theatre runs can be months and months, and you work every single day for not nearly as much money as a film role. I can understand giving film auditions a go and not wanting to be tied to a theatre contract even if it meant turning down some good stuff for the time being. I’d love to know what the roles were though! It’s so interesting seeing actors on stage when you’ve only seen them on tv before.

I imagine AE also had quite a bit of say in what work IG took. She would have loved swanning down the red carpet at the Oscars!

 

[Caitlyn130]

I agree with this. If you look at Damian Lewis and Rufus Sewell (there are probably loads more good Brit actors of a similar generation) both have done stage, DL especially and I think both have healthier careers because of it. I think the cachet and broadsheet reviews makes them more desirable. To the best of my knowledge, neither of those two (fine) actors can sing, lots can't, which might give IG a bit of a selling point should he want it.

Could imagine him as Macheath in the Beggars Opera.

There are so many actors I can think of (and yet, can't remember any names off the top of my head) who have done theatre. Fun fact: I was once in a stage play and Martin Freeman came to see it, and spoke to me after! I always thought it was a right of passage for British actors, almost.

 

[PinkyWinky]

I agree with the posts about cheating. It’s not excusable, it’s cowardly and it’s unfair. But having seen how spiteful and vengeful Alice is I can understand that Ioan was reluctant to come clean and tell her he wanted out. Like she said “What was he thinking. He KNOWS what I’m like”. I doubt he would have stayed with Alice anyway, I think the love was long gone but meeting B motivated him to stand up to AEs public humiliation tactics, threats and blackmail and to push through with the divorce.

 

[plinky]

Sorry if long and boring

I find human commentary interesting. from AE to BW to the DM, this forum and Twitter.

this is not meant to be patronising condoning cheating more an observation ok.

We would all like to think our morals and beliefs are strong within ourselves. People find it easy to put themselves down regarding their appearance and even their personality but when it comes to your moral fibre, that's something that they will defend intensely. Statements like ‘I would never do that’ and often it a very black and white thinking as it’s so easy to judge another person on their actions, after all it isn’t you, you might not have all the facts on it so it’s much easier to make a judgement on it, even a generalised one.

people change their morals though, depending on their circumstances. one example I can think is politics, people especially change their morals and ideation to match their current circumstances, financial or their belief system. The U.K. was rocked by Brexit - people I knew even my family lifelong labour and libdem voting to leave the EU, angry and often at odds with everything they had said in the past. To me it made no sense.

we as humans are so easily influenced sometimes, if you’ve ever watched the social dilemma, it is so interesting how perhaps you make your choices and decisions based on your belief system as to how it will benefit you at that time. Not how it benefitted you 20 years ago, or always how it will next year. We try to do that, but it’s very hard to stick to your one path. A huge life changing event can change your entire outlook

I believe Ioan was influenced, but not on purpose. He came across someone by chance who he had a connection (spiritually, emotionally or physically) and it ultimately moved him forward to make massive changes in his life. He may be easily influenced, or maybe eager to find something. Obviously this has been a shock for AE, because she assumed he would never change. Ioan 20 years ago, same way for life. Are you all the same person as 20 years ago? I’m not

Alice believing Ioan would never change his mind or feelings is denial that it could happen, it’s not really her fault, we all want to believe this but it’s not true. I often check in with my partner - are we still making each other happy? Is there anything I could do or not do? Ioan told Alice all of these things she did not listen to him. Slowly, she eroded this part of Ioan, where he gave up speaking out, and he ran away from her. He ran towards Bianca. He did seem to try with Alice. It’s also difficult to tell how involved they were, I can believe they may have been just ‘friends’ physically but more emotionally.

 

[Perplexity]

I imagine AE also had quite a bit of say in what work IG took. She would have loved swanning down the red carpet at the Oscars!

Ha, yeah! I can imagine. I get what people are saying - of course theatre work is part of most great British actors’ body of work and I’d love to see IG on stage, especially in a musical (Javert? Jean Valjean?). But I also get having to keep yourself free if you’re giving Hollywood a go. You can’t attend auditions in LA if you need to be on stage every night at 7:30pm for 4 months.

 

[Mad Betty]

I agree with you it doesn’t seem like a smart move.
Plus stage actors are usually highly esteemed. Perhaps, it was related to his panic attacks? Just speculating of course.
ETA I left a career in television because of panic attacks.

We have that in common. I moved behind the camera for a while and then eventually left the industry altogether. I still hate public speaking.

 

[Perplexity]

We have that in common. I moved behind the camera for a while and then eventually left the industry altogether. I still hate public speaking.

It can happen! Michael Sheen had a terrible panic attack on stage once which almost put him off for life, and Ian Holm had one so bad during a play that he didn’t go back on stage for about 20 years.

 

[Mad Betty]

When I mention Tattle to my fella .. he goes back to his house … Tattle the gift that keeps on giving

My husband just asks me if I'm on "that site again" talking about "that crazy woman."

 

[LucySmith]

I just woke up so hopefully this doesn’t come off badly. When 20 odd people have the same thoughts and we all make one comment, that is the same. That BW video was inspirational and we liked it, that doesnt really make us a “fan club”. I personally don’t like being accused of that for one comment. One comment. And while I’m here no I don’t think they had an affair either. I’ve already explained before but I think they met Aug 2020 as AD said. They made a connection and he flew home shortly after. They continued a supportive online relationship from there. There is zero evidence of an affair so I will not accuse them of one.

 

[curious km]

God that Michelle is pissing me off on Twitter I’m so tempted to say something but know better than to get into a war on Twitter with a person like this

All those people want are someone to fight with them so they can say the other “side” is also behaving badly. Best to just let them scream into cyberspace.
ETA & @welshfitnessgirl , I feel like responding too!!

 

[Babsi]

Just a reminder (without having a dig at you) that in abusive, controlling, coercive relationships it's not always as simple to leave.

First of all, I found Bianca's post very moving. I like her soft and gentle voice, such a difference to mAlice's squawking. I feel for her struggle with MS and for a broken marriage at such a young age, likely because of that diagnosis. She is lovely, and I like her understated way of dressing.

From everything we've heard from the horse's mouth (mAlice herself) and have pieced together the past several weeks, that marriage had been dead as a doorknob for years. She admitted she threatened him with divorce if he didn't get his a.. back to LA at the beginning of the pandemic. Just the other day, someone posted a throwback from her Insta in Fall 2017, where she basically said he had the ick for her back then already and was finding excuses to avoid sex. So much for the soulmate and marital bliss garbage she spouted at the beginning of this drama when he left. I think it's more than obvious that he stayed because of the children - all the more tragic that he seems to have lost them anyway - and was at the least emotionally abused. He was honest with her in August 2020 - at the latest - by telling her he didn't love her and wanted out, then stayed yet another 4 months, maybe to try to smooth things with her and the kids, and then finally left and filed for divorce. He wanted the divorce collaborative and quick, she has vowed to drag it out forever. I really see no betrayal on his part, he was on the upfront about everything except, perhaps, the new relationship. And who are we to blame him?

Am I - at the tender age of 67! - the only one here naive enough to believe an attractive man and woman can bond in times of extreme stress without it automatically being something sexual from the get-go? Frankly, I don't give a flying you-know-what about when it became something else. They are two damaged people who apparently are finding strength in one another and learning to trust again..

I might get whipped here for saying this, but personally, I think it speaks for Ioan as a human being and as a man to commit to this relationship with Bianca, who could very well end up blind and/or in a wheelchair in a very few years, and may even die young. That's a lot to take on, especially with a toxic ex-wife who will never leave him in peace and two children he obviously loves and are being emotionally abused by their own mother, who in my view is the only one who is hurting them, beginning with how she told little Elsie about the divorce filing and going on for months alienating them from him. Yes, I had/have some reservations about him moving into a new relationship so fast, but I wish them the best, whether as a comfort to each other now in hard times or forever.

Bianca said it very succinctly, but at the end of the day, we all have only one life to live and it is finite. I hope he is going for full custody and gets it. I think he and Bianca would be a far better environment and influence for these children.

 

[Bewdley]

There are so many actors I can think of (and yet, can't remember any names off the top of my head) who have done theatre. Fun fact: I was once in a stage play and Martin Freeman came to see it, and spoke to me after! I always thought it was a right of passage for British actors, almost.

Totally. If they can get a stint at Stratford or the National, so much the better. I think it's seen a bit like rising bands dragging their gear around, Paying Your Dues and Learning Your Craft.

That is a fun fact!

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

"He has not worked for a couple of months and turned down major theatre roles to take film parts that have failed to materialise."

To be honest, this seems...not smart. Major theatre roles, presumably in the West End? And for film parts that weren't even guaranteed? I think he could be a lot further on in his career now if he'd spent some time doing theatre and then moved to Hollywood in a much stronger position, with an impressive body of theatre work and a name that was more well known.

Agree. He did say he would find doing the same thing every night boring. OTOH Matthew Rhys did a very long and successful stint on the West End playing against Kathleen Turner in The Graduate. And look who is further ahead now?

Also, why did he turn down £300k for a five week shoot in Wales (according to AE)? Guess he is not that broke after all. Many actors would kill for that gig.