India Knight

[megsmagoo]

Being drunk should not excuse what he was searching. How she could even entertain being in the same room as him beggars belief when she has her own children.

The whole thing knocks me sick

 

[Jaybtee]

What do you mean by ‘trans rights’? Trans people already have all the same human rights that everybody does under the Human Rights Act. And their gender identity is also a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

The only rights that trans women don’t have are women’s rights. The trans lobby wants to appropriate women’s rights that are explicitly protected in the Equality Act. Trans people don’t need these rights because the rights that women have fought so hard for over decades (the right to single sex spaces, the right to refuse medical treatment by a man, the right to talk about their biology and anatomy in any context where it is relevant) are necessary because of the discrimination, oppression and abuse that women have endured for centuries. Abuse and oppression specific to the fact that they are born female in a male-dominated society. Abuse and oppression that women have never been able to identity out of, despite their supposedly enormous ‘cis privilege’.

The problem with men like Eric Joyce, and why his support of unisex spaces is relevant to the ‘trans rights’ discussion is because Eric Joyce, like lots and lots of other men, is a violent sex offender. The trans lobby wants to remove the current threshold for legal gender transition. At the moment the gender reassignment act requires a trans person to live as their preferred ‘gender’ for two years, and to have had gender reassignment surgery in order to be legally recognised as their preferred gender.

(For the moment, let’s leave to one side the question of what ‘gender’ even is, versus biological sex. Gender is essentially a bunch of sexist tropes and sterotypes defined by a patriarchal society and imposed on the different sexes. I do not identify as female. I am female because of my anatomy, but I never wear dresses or high heels. I rarely wear makeup. I do a ‘masculine’ job. If you take my biology out of the question, by all gender metrics I am overwhelmingly more male than female.)

If the standard for ‘who can transition into a woman’ stops being: ‘someone who has lived as a woman for two years and who has had gender reassignment surgery’ and instead becomes: ‘anyone who says they identify as one’, then at what point during that transition process does a violent male sexual offender like Eric Joyce, for example, stop being a threat to women and children?

Of course not all men...etc. But enough men. And it is overwhelmingly men. So, what are safeguarding and single sex spaces even for, if not to afford women protection from being exposed to potentially violent sexual predators?

And if it no longer becomes a requirement for a trans woman to even shave their beard, how are we to know whether the flat-chested male-looking person in eyeliner who’s pointlessly trying on bras in the next M&S cubicle is eyeing us up for the wank bank, or just one of the girls?

To even voice any of what I’ve written here is to be branded transphobic or a ‘terf’ (which is a misogynistic slur, by the way).

You bet that women who are concerned about the erosion of women’s rights and the protection of women and children are terrified by this judgment. Because men like Eric Joyce want access to our safe spaces. And on the one hand they are being given tacit assent by the legal system to just crack on with being a p*edo perv. And on the other hand, the woke brigade are cheering his support for unisex spaces.

I suggest, rather than opining that it’s ‘interesting’ there’s an overlap between women who are gender critical, and critics of Joyce’s sentence, why not wonder instead why men who like to wank to child sex abuse are advocates of unisex spaces. If you dig deeper into it, you’ll see there’s a massive overlap there too.

Thank you for this post.

 

[Wolf359]

I don't care how drunk he was, his impulse is to get off on images of unfathomable depravity committed against tiny children. They should have thrown away the key

I’ve been drunk plenty of times before.

Not once has the thought ever occurred to me to go looking on the internet for images of children being sexually abused.

It is unconscionable that being drunk could ever be a valid defence to a crime like that.

 

[Mjaumjau]

What do you mean by ‘trans rights’? Trans people already have all the same human rights that everybody does under the Human Rights Act. And their gender identity is also a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

Just wanted to add, from what I have seen on some subs on Reddit, a lot of lesbians are getting banned and pushed out of lesbian safe places because some trans women have been ridiculing them and being horrible them for not wanting to have sex with trans women that have penises.

I wonder why there has been a lot more, in the open at last, trans women that have tried to "invade" women spaces. For example, why not opt for having more options in toiles were trans men and women can use them no matter if they are transitioned or not?

They have been a few cases like Jessica Yaniv ( from Ready To Glares video), but then again I don't really hear a lot about trans men doing similar things. So I don't really know if it is just that there are more men using the trans movement for their own satisfaction.

Like Eric using his position of power to basically get off scot-free.

 

[Thelowandthehigh]

What do you mean by ‘trans rights’? Trans people already have all the same human rights that everybody does under the Human Rights Act. And their gender identity is also a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

The only rights that trans women don’t have are women’s rights. The trans lobby wants to appropriate women’s rights that are explicitly protected in the Equality Act. Trans people don’t need these rights because the rights that women have fought so hard for over decades (the right to single sex spaces, the right to refuse medical treatment by a man, the right to talk about their biology and anatomy in any context where it is relevant) are necessary because of the discrimination, oppression and abuse that women have endured for centuries. Abuse and oppression specific to the fact that they are born female in a male-dominated society. Abuse and oppression that women have never been able to identity out of, despite their supposedly enormous ‘cis privilege’.

The problem with men like Eric Joyce, and why his support of unisex spaces is relevant to the ‘trans rights’ discussion is because Eric Joyce, like lots and lots of other men, is a violent sex offender. The trans lobby wants to remove the current threshold for legal gender transition. At the moment the gender reassignment act requires a trans person to live as their preferred ‘gender’ for two years, and to have had gender reassignment surgery in order to be legally recognised as their preferred gender.

(For the moment, let’s leave to one side the question of what ‘gender’ even is, versus biological sex. Gender is essentially a bunch of sexist tropes and sterotypes defined by a patriarchal society and imposed on the different sexes. I do not identify as female. I am female because of my anatomy, but I never wear dresses or high heels. I rarely wear makeup. I do a ‘masculine’ job. If you take my biology out of the question, by all gender metrics I am overwhelmingly more male than female.)

If the standard for ‘who can transition into a woman’ stops being: ‘someone who has lived as a woman for two years and who has had gender reassignment surgery’ and instead becomes: ‘anyone who says they identify as one’, then at what point during that transition process does a violent male sexual offender like Eric Joyce, for example, stop being a threat to women and children?

Of course not all men...etc. But enough men. And it is overwhelmingly men. So, what are safeguarding and single sex spaces even for, if not to afford women protection from being exposed to potentially violent sexual predators?

And if it no longer becomes a requirement for a trans woman to even shave their beard, how are we to know whether the flat-chested male-looking person in eyeliner who’s pointlessly trying on bras in the next M&S cubicle is eyeing us up for the wank bank, or just one of the girls?

To even voice any of what I’ve written here is to be branded transphobic or a ‘terf’ (which is a misogynistic slur, by the way).

You bet that women who are concerned about the erosion of women’s rights and the protection of women and children are terrified by this judgment. Because men like Eric Joyce want access to our safe spaces. And on the one hand they are being given tacit assent by the legal system to just crack on with being a p*edo perv. And on the other hand, the woke brigade are cheering his support for unisex spaces.

I suggest, rather than opining that it’s ‘interesting’ there’s an overlap between women who are gender critical, and critics of Joyce’s sentence, why not wonder instead why men who like to wank to child sex abuse are advocates of unisex spaces. If you dig deeper into it, you’ll see there’s a massive overlap there too.

This is a phenomenal explanation.

 

[Twittrerisyouroffice]

What do you mean by ‘trans rights’? Trans people already have all the same human rights that everybody does under the Human Rights Act. And their gender identity is also a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

The only rights that trans women don’t have are women’s rights. The trans lobby wants to appropriate women’s rights that are explicitly protected in the Equality Act. Trans people don’t need these rights because the rights that women have fought so hard for over decades (the right to single sex spaces, the right to refuse medical treatment by a man, the right to talk about their biology and anatomy in any context where it is relevant) are necessary because of the discrimination, oppression and abuse that women have endured for centuries. Abuse and oppression specific to the fact that they are born female in a male-dominated society. Abuse and oppression that women have never been able to identity out of, despite their supposedly enormous ‘cis privilege’.

The problem with men like Eric Joyce, and why his support of unisex spaces is relevant to the ‘trans rights’ discussion is because Eric Joyce, like lots and lots of other men, is a violent sex offender. The trans lobby wants to remove the current threshold for legal gender transition. At the moment the gender reassignment act requires a trans person to live as their preferred ‘gender’ for two years, and to have had gender reassignment surgery in order to be legally recognised as their preferred gender.

(For the moment, let’s leave to one side the question of what ‘gender’ even is, versus biological sex. Gender is essentially a bunch of sexist tropes and sterotypes defined by a patriarchal society and imposed on the different sexes. I do not identify as female. I am female because of my anatomy, but I never wear dresses or high heels. I rarely wear makeup. I do a ‘masculine’ job. If you take my biology out of the question, by all gender metrics I am overwhelmingly more male than female.)

If the standard for ‘who can transition into a woman’ stops being: ‘someone who has lived as a woman for two years and who has had gender reassignment surgery’ and instead becomes: ‘anyone who says they identify as one’, then at what point during that transition process does a violent male sexual offender like Eric Joyce, for example, stop being a threat to women and children?

Of course not all men...etc. But enough men. And it is overwhelmingly men. So, what are safeguarding and single sex spaces even for, if not to afford women protection from being exposed to potentially violent sexual predators?

And if it no longer becomes a requirement for a trans woman to even shave their beard, how are we to know whether the flat-chested male-looking person in eyeliner who’s pointlessly trying on bras in the next M&S cubicle is eyeing us up for the wank bank, or just one of the girls?

To even voice any of what I’ve written here is to be branded transphobic or a ‘terf’ (which is a misogynistic slur, by the way).

You bet that women who are concerned about the erosion of women’s rights and the protection of women and children are terrified by this judgment. Because men like Eric Joyce want access to our safe spaces. And on the one hand they are being given tacit assent by the legal system to just crack on with being a p*edo perv. And on the other hand, the woke brigade are cheering his support for unisex spaces.

I suggest, rather than opining that it’s ‘interesting’ there’s an overlap between women who are gender critical, and critics of Joyce’s sentence, why not wonder instead why men who like to wank to child sex abuse are advocates of unisex spaces. If you dig deeper into it, you’ll see there’s a massive overlap there too.

I didn't need a precis of the debate, I'm more than familiar with the practical and theoretical and outs of it thanks. Tbh it's not a conversation I can be arsed to have here a Friday night.

I will say that I think bringing up his support of unisex spaces at this very moment detracts from the current scandal of lax sentencing and shameful message it sends out that viewing images isn't abuse or as harmful to children. Loosing linking his apparent support of trans rights (as some have done on sm) with child abuse is a dangerous conflation.

 

[Wolf359]

Just wanted to add, from what I have seen on some subs on Reddit, a lot of lesbians are getting banned and pushed out of lesbian safe places because some trans women have been ridiculing them and being horrible them for not wanting to have sex with trans women that have penises.

I wonder why there has been a lot more, in the open at last, trans women that have tried to "invade" women spaces. For example, why not opt for having more options in toiles were trans men and women can use them no matter if they are transitioned or not?

Yes lesbians have been talking about this for years. Google the ‘cotton ceiling’ if you really want to understand what they’ve been battling against.

Lesbians have been doxxed, branded transphobic, have lost their jobs, just for not wanting to sleep with trans women who have penises.

Of course, if a men says he doesn’t want to sleep with a trans woman who has a penis, he gets to keep his job and tweet another day without being cancelled.

Because, to answer your second point about third spaces, this isn’t really about genuine dysphoria. It’s about misogyny. Pure and simple.

It’s about men redefining what it is to be a woman - legally, physically, epistemically - so that they can take everything that women currently have that men don’t have, and punish us for daring to claim it for ourselves in the first place. That includes everything from our single-sex changing rooms to our cervixes.

I didn't need a precis of the debate, I'm more than familiar with the practical and theoretical and outs of it thanks. Tbh it's not a conversation I can be arsed to have here a Friday night.

I will say that I think bringing up his support of unisex spaces at this very moment detracts from the current scandal of lax sentencing and shameful message it sends out that viewing images isn't abuse or as harmful to children. Loosing linking his apparent support of trans rights (as some have done on sm) with child abuse is a dangerous conflation.

I disagree. I think it’s extremely relevant that a convicted violent offender and now convicted child sex offender, who is an advocate of unisex spaces, has received an alarmingly lenient sentence. Why would you want to separate the two things? Unless you’re suggesting that a man who can wank to baby rape photos can also be an altruistic humanitarian when it comes to the specific issue of trans women?

If you look at pushing for unisex spaces as an erosion of women’s boundaries, in the same way as physically assaulting someone and viewing child sex abuse are violations of boundaries, it is absolutely part of the same issue. Rather than detract from his disgraceful sentencing, it amplifies how concerning it is.

 

[Lovely]

Just wanted to add, from what I have seen on some subs on Reddit, a lot of lesbians are getting banned and pushed out of lesbian safe places because some trans women have been ridiculing them and being horrible them for not wanting to have sex with trans women that have penises.

I came out as a lesbian about a year and a half ago, in my 30s. I have always considered myself a trans ally and would never want any trans person to be harmed or threatened in any way. I support anyone transitioning if it's what they feel is best for them (assuming that they are old enough to fully understand the consequences of any irreversible decisions). I will respect anyone's wishes regarding names/pronouns, etc.

However, I do not ever want to have sex with someone who has (or had) a penis. Even the idea of that is deeply traumatising for me. I understand now, after many years of trying to convince myself that I was straight, that my sexuality is not a 'preference' – it's as immutable a part of me as my eye colour. I have been told that this makes me transphobic, and I have lost a 10+ year friendship with a rabidly woke straight 'ally' who got her boyfriend to harass me and call me a terf because I said that I could not be attracted to a transwoman.

As much as part of me wishes I had figured out my sexuality much sooner than I did, I am also extremely grateful that, being in my 30s, I feel confident enough to stand my ground on what I know to be right. I cannot imagine going through this experience in my teens or 20s. The level of gaslighting in the lesbian community on this issue is absolutely insane – I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself.

 

[melfish]

That's the part I don't understand. You're attracted to what you're attracted to. Why is it considered transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a person with a penis if you're not attracted to people with penises?

 

[Lovely]

That's the part I don't understand. You're attracted to what you're attracted to. Why is it considered transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a person with a penis if you're not attracted to people with penises?

The increasingly dominant view is that, if transwomen are women, a transwoman's body is therefore a woman's body. Which means that if you 'discriminate' on the basis that a transwoman has a penis (which they often refer to as 'girldick'), that's transphobic. Obviously I totally disagree with this, but that's the logic behind it.

 

[melfish]

The increasingly dominant view is that, if transwomen are women, a transwoman's body is therefore a woman's body. Which means that if you 'discriminate' on the basis that a transwoman has a penis (which they often refer to as 'girldick'), that's transphobic. Obviously I totally disagree with this, but that's the logic behind it.

Sorry, that was more a question for the ether, but thank you for explaining. Then I guess my next question (also for the ether) is, who is doing the "policing" of this? Is it that transwomen are being rejected by lesbians and going public with this rejection? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I just don't understand how something as personal and subjective as sexual attraction can be externally policed like this

 

[Lovely]

Sorry, that was more a question for the ether, but thank you for explaining. Then I guess my next question (also for the ether) is, who is doing the "policing" of this? Is it that transwomen are being rejected by lesbians and going public with this rejection? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I just don't understand how something as personal and subjective as sexual attraction can be externally policed like this

At this point, the policing of it is coming from almost the entire LGBT+ community and its allies, but it probably started with Stonewall after they shifted a huge amount of their focus to trans rights (with gay rights and same-sex marriage now being pretty widely accepted, they had to find a new lobbying/fundraising direction). However, people who have been aware of this stuff for a lot longer than me are probably better placed to comment.

I do know that it is really no longer acceptable to say that you aren't attracted to transwomen if you're a lesbian. It is definitely not acceptable to say that lesbians don't have sex with penises or that lesbians can't have penises (that will instantly make you a terf). The majority of mainstream lesbians have fully accepted trans ideology – in public, at least. I suspect that in their private lives they would never actually have sex with transwomen.

 

[Wolf359]

That's the part I don't understand. You're attracted to what you're attracted to. Why is it considered transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a person with a penis if you're not attracted to people with penises?

Because trans ideology is inherently homophobic. It views homosexuality as a preferential identity that can be ‘corrected’ (just ‘swap’ bodies!), instead of the intrinsic sexual orientation that it is.

 

[AdoraDelano]

This isn't a trans thread guys. Lets not derail.

 

[Disillusioned]

Thank you for sharing your experiences and perspective, @Lovely. The pressure and abuse that lesbians are currently subject to scares me. It’s so regressive, and - ironically - surely homophobic as well as misogynistic?

 

[Mjaumjau]

I came out as a lesbian about a year and a half ago, in my 30s. I have always considered myself a trans ally and would never want any trans person

I am so sorry for what you have experienced. I have been keeping out of the whole discussion because it often goes into one of the other extremes, no matter what someone is going to be ignored and made out to be the bad guy. Especially now that being "woke" and the trans movement has become popular.

Do you guys think there are more people like Eric in high positions, and that is one of the reasons he got the slap on the wrist?

I wonder why there are so many men that have pedalo*** tendencies?

Can't remember which YouTuber talked about this but if you search for The 'Kentler Project' in West Berlin, you will get an article about the Berlin authorities that have placed homeless children with pedophiles- apparently, a lot of the higher up were pedophiles themself.

Quite scary to think about these things really :/

 

[Wolf359]

Almost certainly Eric got a lighter sentence because he is part of the old boys’ network that runs the establishment. India’s step father would have been part of it too. Perhaps she’s like Ghislaine Maxwell and is so used to growing up surrounded by casual perving and normalised p*do activity, that she has become inured to it.

 

[boringbsh]

If she stays, there’s a special place in hell reserved just for her.

 

[jeezlouise]

If she stays, there’s a special place in hell reserved just for her.

It's her house so she'd need to kick him out, though I feel it's unlikely since his initial arrest was two years ago.

 

[Debarkle]

That’s another thing I can’t understand - the timeline. It happened over two years ago and now used the time to “rehabilitate” and get a soft sentence. But I’d love to know why this has been going on for so long.