Gender Discussion #9

[AlanBanan]

Lol, no Iran forces castration and forces a sex change on gay men. It’s either that or be executed.

Can these morons ever research anything?

 

[jewelkitty]

 

[mindlessness]

‘A passive role in sexual intercourse and a reproductive role in everyday life’. FFS. That is not what the suffragettes and feminists that followed fought for. They fought for the rights to break free of those gendered roles and be allowed agency over their bodies and lives.

 

[emmer_moans]

I strongly feel there should be a time limit on punishment for historic acts. Let’s be honest I bet all teenagers have said something offensive, either from their own through or those of their peers. Punishing them 10+ years later does nothing. He’s in the public eye and could use the to his advantage to show others but taking him from the position does nothing and it also feeds into the view of not speaking out.

I worry about kids who innocently ask a GC question at school, will it be a stain on their record, will it affect them getting into uni or jobs?

I saw a tweet earlier where someone's friend is a bus driver and 'misgendered' a man who wears a skirt, in conversation where that person wasn't present. They were corrected by someone and the bus driver said no, the guy is a man, not a woman. Anyway, days later some important driver paperwork of his had gone 'missing' and he has to go on compulsory trans awareness training.

Anyway, I find this sending people onto compulsory awareness training sinister, again, does it become a stain on record? Don't get me wrong I think we should have refreshers every so often about not being racists, sexist, classist, homophobic etc, as true awareness of social issues, but the thought policing of telling lies about biology is scary. The TRA training is becoming totalitarian.

Edit To Add: it's this threat of choke holding people's economics (like here with the drivers paperwork going missing, or threat of sacking for being GC) that really worries me.

If ever there was an argument for parents to keep kids off social media for as long as possible... now would be a good time but I can see how much pressure parents are under when most kids get iphones at younger and younger ages.

 

[Platformcrocs]

On the topic of kinks, its pretty telling that the majority of mainstream kinks involve degrading women. And, you know, women are literally dying as a result of men acting out "kinks".

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I do think that kids need to learn about things but the most basic level of 'some people have a mummy and a daddy, some people have two mummies or two daddies, some people have one...' and so on is fine - that would have been enough to make a massive difference to me when I was a kid and it's kept at a level that is appropriate for children.

 

[emm]

I had a chat with my partner earlier around Marion Millar/self ID/the usual stuff we talk about here, we've never really spoken about gender despite being together for a while so I was a little hesitant/nervous. He totally agreed that self ID has got out of control and he'd never heard of AGP before but thought it made a lot of sense with a couple of trans women we know of. It was good to talk about it because a lot of our views are willingly misunderstood, and we're immediately shouted down as TERFs when that has never been the case.

A close friend of mine is a trans man and I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells around him - he's not the issue, it's men infiltrating women's spaces because they get a kick out of it that is the issue. We want to protect women's rights because women before us have fought hard for them. We're women, not "chest-feeders" or "cervix-owners".

Totally agree, my mum was really involved in the feminist movement in the 70s(I am mid 30s) and bought me Up to basically view things as gender neutral, ie if I wanted to climb trees I could, if I wanted to wear dresses I could etc etc. Whatever. She is really despairing now of what she and others (not just women of course but also men) fought for being rolled back on now

 

[HoGi]

I was filling out a survey (from a public sector-aligned organisation) and was faced with this question...

View attachment 610000

I know its been discussed many times on this thread but ugh. Since when did demographic surveys stop collecting actual facts? It also asked how old I am, maybe I should have given them a random number pulled out of thin air? Sure, I think of myself as 21 years old today

Maybe I can identify as a 65 year old and retire and claim my pension

 

[Milliemoo99]

Not a fan of hers, but a good piece

SARAH VINE: War on mothers is feminism's biggest fight for decades

SARAH VINE: Mum, mother, mummy. I am proud to call myself all these things but the powerful UK gay rights organisation Stonewall thinks that belief is wrong and possibly wicked.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is absurd, I too like being a mother, and being thought of as a mother.

But in the interests of fairness, if we are going to change language to stop using the word mother...we should also stop using or change the word father. What would be a good word instead of father., dad, papa......? ..person who inseminates? person who provides the sperm? sperm donor?

So when a child meets a friend in the park, instead of Hi ...this is my dad, we should encourage children to be saying...Hi this is the person who inseminated me.

I also think it might become more of an issue, quite quickly if men realised that they were not allowed to be called father or dad. Should we be talking about how Joe Biden is the person who provided the sperm for his children?

Or Boris Johnson or Winston Churchill, instead of calling them the ''father of the nation'' should we be calling them the ''sperm donors of the nation''?

 

[Vee6]

 

[Buswanker]

I miss the days where playing with toy cars and wanting to wear jeans instead of dresses just meant that everyone thought you were a bit of a tomboy. That didn’t lead all of us kids to lop our tits off and change our names. Same for the lads. My lil bro liked pushing a little pram around and liked playing with my Barbies, he remains a he.

 

[maytoseptember]

Honestly trans people are so coddled and fawned over that I'm sure he thinks/thought that he was untouchable.

And didn’t someone post a screenshot yesterday of some handmaiden replying to his confession with (I’m paraphrasing) “on the behalf of the girl you tried to assault… I forgive you”.



I mean, WHAT? Nobody knows a single thing about the girl he wanted to rape and how she was affected, and yet we have another female saying “there there, you’re forgiven”. Makes me want to puke, honesty.

 

[fmmac]

I've not read her post as I'm taking a break from insta but I saw this posted on wiki (so not sure about the accuracy)

what I am NOT is a woman/lady/girl/female/comedienne/Miss/Ma’am/Queen/Goddess. I am person/human/Sofie/comedian/Mx/Sir/Daddy/King/God.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, or maybe it's a comedy thing that I don't 'get' (so, not funny ) but by having 'human and person' in with male descriptions and saying not to call her any of the female suggests she sees them as less than human?

Like I said, I might be over thinking this but that was what initially struck me. I don't think I've articulated it well

 

[maytoseptember]

One question comes to mind. Since Terf refers to women and the people who use violence against LGBTQ+ are statistically almost always men(I'm sure there are outliers but I've yet to see the headlines proving it)(I doubt a woman would be physically capable of beating a gay man), why is this passive agressive or agressive tweet directed at women?

Exactly. Absolute clowns. Anyone would think radfems are roaming the streets looking for defenceless men to beat up.

Jane Clare Jones said it best - “little shits”

 

[Ispyabudgetbeanblogger]

Mr F's mother used to go through his three brothers' names and the childhood dogs when trying to remember his! She usually got there in the end, bless her.

I might be your mother in law!

As a woman, I've had to deal with my fair share of misogynistic crap. It is always clear to me when it is harmful (a boss or colleague making an inappropriate remark) and when it is not (a taxi driver calling me pet in Newcastle, an elderly neighbour calling me love because he can't remember my name). To the TRA nuance never matters. Either you are right, because you have the right flag and you say the right words or you are wrong. Intent doesn't matter. Whether you actually do something harmful is irrelevant.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

This is a very fair and detailed reply thank you! And now I agree that sadly there is a clear issue with certain men exploiting a system. It’s so complicated (especially in regards to third prison space or a better definition/system) as you don’t want to hurt or vindicate Non-predatory transwomen etc.. They just want to be their true selves and are not harmful. Anyway. I get the prison issue now. I still feel some posts here are a little extreme or are blanket claims but I also feel assured that there are people here who believe majority of trans, gender fluid etc. are “good” and don’t have an agenda. Just felt off reading damning remarks like “most trans identifying men...” with no sources or data.

I think when we get into feelings it can become a tricky situation because then we would have to decide which person has their feelings hurt. Yes, a non-predatory transperson might feel upset about using a third space, but you'd also get women who were upset at being in a shared-gender space rather than a same-sex space. When I was at uni back in the early 2010s the Muslim women on my course who wore the hijab would often go to the bathroom in-between lectures to adjust it, as they knew that there wouldn't be any male people in the bathroom.

Unless we go for a method of fully individual stalls which each have a toilet, sink and mirror, then nowadays they might not feel as safe using a mixed-sex, same-gender bathroom.

It is also potentially a problem for women who are feeling medically vulnerable, such as on mixed-sex medical wards, especially if they have a history of being sexually assaulted by a man, to know that they'd be having to sleep with a person who has a penis in the next bed, even if that person doesn't mean any harm to the woman.

I think it can get a bit heated here because there's not many places that women can talk openly without worrying about being doxxed or insulted but I think that healthy debate is definitely a good thing.

 

[jackolantern]

Apparently she has not even been told what the offending tweet was.

So, you cannot debate this issue anywhere then? Unless her tweet was defamatory against a particular person of course. Why on earth will they not even disclose the content? It is like living somewhere like North Korea.

How can you be charged for something and not even be told what that is? Dear god our society is turning more dystopian everyday.

 

[mindlessness]

I am in the Humanities (in a women-heavy field) so haven't had the same experiences as you have in STEM @heretoreaditall2019 but have definitely heard similar stories. Thank you for sharing yours.

M. K. Fain, worked in tech (and still does, running some Gender critical websites), She writes at 4W: https://4w.pub/author/mk/
There's also a STEM board on ovarit, which you might find interesting: https://ovarit.com/o/STEM/new

It's hard (or manybe confronting is the right word?) to be gender critical, especially for those of us who in many other ways are to the left politically and have found that suddenly anything except absolute adherence to 'trans women are women' is blasphemy. Know you're not alone.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

AFAB Hospital?
Person with a Cervix Hospital?
Birthers and Birthed Services?

 

[mindlessness]

Thinking about birthing or non-birthing, it's also terminology that requires the parents to share details they might not want to with strangers and that is no-one else's business. i.e. if the child is adopted (or Mum is the step-Mum) then she's also a non-birthing parent.