Gender Discussion #9

[jackolantern]

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This was just a random tweet but I’ve seen many tweets from people like this one who also support self ID for women’s spaces - I just can’t see how these two beliefs are compatible?
It’s scary how little critical thought people will put in to what they’re saying..they’ll just share the accepted thought of the moment.

Slightly off topic but oh god I'm so devestated to hear this, I know there was no good 'end' to this situation but I was praying he didn't rape her. God I hope he rots.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

You can't change your gender and sexuality every few months when it suits.

If you're Philip Bunce you can spend 50% of each week as Philip, 50% of each week as Pippa/Pips and be included in the Financial Time's list of the Britain's Top 100 Female Executives

City workers hit out at gender fluid banker named in top 100 women

Married father-of-two Philip Bunce describes himself as ‘gender-fluid’ and ‘non-binary’ and decides each day whether to dress as a man or a woman and whether to call himself Philip or Pippa.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The commendation pays tribute to Bunce as a ‘key proponent for many of Credit Suisse’s gender focused initiatives’ and as an advocate for ‘a more diverse gender workforce where there is the parity, equal representation and equality across all 3 genders’.

What an easy way to get around diversity targets for executive positions, have the men identify as gender fluid and then you have to hire fewer women.

 

[sheleg]

I hope the heads of Stonewall are ashamed of what they've done to the gay community.

 

[maytoseptember]

Excellent news! It was such a gross hashtag.

It was AWFUL. Who the fuck came up with it and thought it was suitable for women is out of their mind. It was so blokey. I could’ve imagined it for an awareness campaign aimed at testicular cancer, but not to encourage women to go for cervical smears.

Has anyone read this piece in the Telegraph?



Full text here, if you don’t have a login: https://archive.is/33OsQ


An Oxfam staff training document says “privileged white women” are supporting the root causes of sexual violence by wanting "bad men" imprisoned.

In the wake of sex scandals that have rocked the charity, Oxfam has produced guidance which states that: “Mainstream feminism centres on privileged white women and demands that ‘bad men’ be fired or imprisoned”.

Accompanied by a cartoon of a crying white woman, it adds that this “legitimises criminal punishment, harming black and other marginalised people”.

It advises staff to read a controversial book which concludes: “Mainstream feminism is supporting, not undoing, the root causes of sexual violence.”

Oxfam said that the training was voluntary, and the views are not presented as its own but designed to help staff understand the issues.

 

[maytoseptember]

This is so, so accurate

 

[Falkor]

Seen on Twitter this morning - Cece Telfer lining up in the women's hurdles and in the lower half, the women's hurdle on the left, the men's on the right. How is this remotely fair?

 

[Doc]

Also, in light of the recent Ollie Robinson debacle - a 27 year old cricketer being suspended and kicked out of the England squad NOW for racist/sexist tweets he made as a teenager - you can bet your life GC women will be made to suffer with their careers/social status in the future for things said *today* that may threaten these bio companies from setting up their gender meat and hormone markets.

I’m not defending what Ollie Robinson said btw, but you’ll be hard pushed to find anyone that hasn’t said something crass against a “protected group” -in our case, trans people - and it sets a dangerous precedent.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

From the Hagen post -

I get that it’s difficult to rewire your brain to understanding this. It feels impractical - ‘what, am I just meant to ask everyone I meet what gender they are?!’ and well, yes and no. Just as you’d ask someone their name when you meet them, you might want to ask their pronouns too - and tell them your pronouns aswell. And if you want to be on the safe side, don’t gender someone at all, if you don’t know.

A colleague recently was bragging about how her 9 year old daughter states and asks people for their pronouns when she meets them for the first time So this looks like the next stage after 'pronouns in bio/e-mail signature'.

Many old school trans people don't even want to be asked about their pronouns because it implies that all the effort they put into transitioning hasn't worked.

I don’t feel like a hateful or horrible person but everything I read on Twitter suggests I am both.

It does get easier. You said you're left-wing - you might be interested in this

https://twitter.com/LabWomenDec

 

[Pinkii]

Just seen that on the news, cannot believe this is allowed! This person clearly has a great advantage when it comes to lifting, going through puberty as a male she would be advantaged, doesn’t matter about her testosterone levels now. She has failed to gain anything as a male so this is the next best option?

why is this shit being allowed? I feel so angry on behalf of all women esp those who have trained their whole life to be in this position and they are being disadvantaged because of a minority

 

[judgejohndeed]

I'm away at the moment and only have my phone, which I'm rubbish with (being old!) so can't search properly, but the American transgender women murder statistic so often quoted comes from a report covering ALL the Americas and the data is somewhat skewed by the inclusion of murders of trans sex workers in South American countries, where it's more about them being sex workers than being trans. I linked to the actual report in one of the earlier threads.

When people start understanding how to interpret stats properly it’s over for TRAs. Same with legal judgments. Much of their ‘arguments’ rely on false information and security that the average Joe isn’t going to know how to, or bother, fact checking what they say.

 

[Ispyabudgetbeanblogger]

What do we think of this? I personally didn’t have a great relationship with my father and although I found Father’s Day hard, I wouldn’t feel comfortable begrudging others from celebrating, especially as these things are made by young children usually at school.

Furious mother blasts nursery after they renamed 'Father's Day'

Karla Gardner's daughter Daisy handed a handmade collage made in nursery to her ahead of Father's Day on Sunday, but Karla's was shocked when she saw 'Father' had been replaced.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have to say I wish schools would just stop dealing with mother's and father's day altogether. If it's important to your family, sort out cards in your own time. A friend's husband committed suicide and her primary-aged school kids had to make father's day cards a few months later. It was awful. Another family lost their mum to cancer. The kids were really young. All the song and dance around mother's day was incredibly hard for them for a few years. I just don't think it needs to be dealt with at school at all.

 

[Gamu]

I agree. I wholeheartedly support any campaign for transwomen, transmen and NB people to have their own separate spaces/facilities/groups etc. etc. etc. I think everyone, no matter how independent, sometimes needs a supportive space with their 'tribe' - which is why women need women-only spaces and places too.

I guarantee you the majority of TW will not use then as they want to be in women's spaces. They don't want to be perceived as trans even if they are not castrated and feature make pattern baldness and a beard . They demand to be seen as women, hence we "cis". That is the problem

There is one transitioning at work. I don't know him but I have heard he says things like " when I was a little girl.." why does no one challenge him?

 

[Doc]

Does anyone else get anxious messaging on this thread?

Yes, but I am of the “fuck it” mindset now. I’m not having my kids future railroaded without a fight.

ETA: And I’ve deleted all social media, as in complete deletion, as I think it feeds the beast. Don’t be afraid to do it, you honestly miss out on nothing and you don’t lose touch with anyone who means anything to you.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

My thoughts are that schools shouldn’t have to virtue signal these things to prove their wokeness, it should just be a given that they are inclusive, safe and welcoming places to every student. Does that make sense?

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Maybe a friend has just come out.

Could be that also!

Jonathon Ross has gone up in my estimations. The more people in the public eye speaking out the better.

this guy.

"trans-affirming" uh huh.

Of course Charles is a straight male so his 'trans affirming medical care' wouldn't have been funded by the government because the 'trans affirming care'' is for transing the gay way.

These people need to seriously do their research before spouting dangerous nonsense on Twitter like Iran being a progressive and safe place for LGBT people. You might get treated slightly better as a trans person over there compared to a homosexual but its far from being the trans friendly utopia described.

I want nothing to do with a movement that thinks fucking Iran is pro LGBT. They can fuck off pedalling that utter crap.

edit: Iran certainly wouldn’t be a safe space for ‘lesbian’ trans women or ‘gay’ trans men. So certainly not a safe country for your everyday agp.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Oh Avery, I don't hate you. I'm just indifferent. What I care about is women and children. Not everything is about you

Honestly, they're all so bloody thick, reductive and self obsessed.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Body perception is another thing that is way worse because of social media and the current obsession on appearance!

Its also been a lot harder because of Covid shutdown, my social exercise classes have all been shut....the gyms are shut...the swimming pools are shut....and ive been stuck at home worrying.........so even more emotional eating than usual! I admire all the joggers, runners and cyclists..but its just not my mindset to exercise like this!!

I too am too heavy and find losing weight incredibly hard. I think i am going to get hold of the book Brain over Binge.

I want to lose weight like the OP for health reasons, but do understand the need for some kind of body positivity for people of all shapes and sizes.....

What HAES should mean is, not matter what size you are, is making more healthy choices in regard to food and exercise. Lifestyle changes rather than necessarily strict unsustainable diets etc. But how many in the Fat acceptance movement are interpreting it is that you are healthy no matter what size you are. And that's where it's becoming problematic because it's not really grounded in reality.

Someone I know saw being offered a priority vaccine due to a high BMI as fatphobic. Personally, given that COVID has been killing people with high BMI's, I would say the fatphobic thing would be to not offer it.

 

[Falkor]

Not looking to start a row but I’m happy to see this list as a list of trans women & non binary people (who have penises which are indeed male sex organs) but keep those groups as very distinct from women.

But yeah the point very much stands that neither that tweet or any subsequent discussion we have would ever be allowed on Twitter.

I agree. I wholeheartedly support any campaign for transwomen, transmen and NB people to have their own separate spaces/facilities/groups etc. etc. etc. I think everyone, no matter how independent, sometimes needs a supportive space with their 'tribe' - which is why women need women-only spaces and places too.

 

[WadieHaddadsChocolates]

Precisely. Disabled people are almost completely forgotten these days by businesses it seems I know a lady who uses a powerchair and she has to book assistance ahead of time at train stations and many times gets there to find there is no ramp, or the train stock is not accessible, yet the other week on Twitter a certain train company was falling over themselves when a non-binary person objected to an announcement of "ladies and gentlemen". It must be hard for her and many others to see companies rolling around in trans flags and changing their avatars and banners, yet instead they still can't get basic assistance provided in a consistent manner. Companies are hyperfocussed on TRA pandering than actually providing an accessible service.

Providing for disabled people in a public transport network requires proper planning, budgeting, and real and consistent effort to make actual physical changes to stations and trains, as well as training employees properly, as well as designing assistance protocols that are water tight.

Pandering to a 'non binary' attention seeker whose issue is merely hearing words he doesn't like (in this case 'ladies and gentlemen') takes none of those things and can be addressed with some pathetic grovelling and virtue signalling. Also, non binary attention seekers have a habit of very confidently going wailing to twitter or the press and calling everyone 'phobes or -ists to bludgeon their way into getting companies to pander to their delusional self-identity issue.

Point is, train companies like many other companies, are scared shitless of being called -ists or -phobes and the associated small but vociferous and demented loser twitter mobs that inevitably accompany such hysterics. They are not scared of being unaccommodating to disabled folks, whose needs get swept under the rug as often as not. Plus accommodating whiny asshole gender loons is vastly cheaper.

 

[JoeBloggs]

Coming out of lockdown and it feels like I’m entering this horrible world that has been festering on the internet for so long unseen but has been able to finally escape.

I accept hate speech is wrong but where do we draw the line, people get offended by anything and shutting up women to stop ‘offending’ men is so backwards.