Gender Discussion #9

[Bitofthebubbly]

Maybe I can identify as a 65 year old and retire and claim my pension

I identify as a rich person so can someone please deposit a few million into my bank account please? You’d literally be saving my life.

 

[House of Tea]

The fundamental tenet underpinning sport is Fair Play. This is not, and never will be Fair Play.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Some woke women are sharing the CNA article without realising it applies to women like them. For instance, Caitlin Moran. This is the same Caitlin Moran that deleted a tweet in which she referred to her womb all because some men had hurty feels at mentioning her female biology

Also, her caption doesn't actually really mention what the piece is about and sanitises the point of the piece

 

[House of Tea]

I feel sick to my stomach. Do we even know what she is being charged with or what the tweet was?

Apparently she has not even been told what the offending tweet was.

So, you cannot debate this issue anywhere then? Unless her tweet was defamatory against a particular person of course. Why on earth will they not even disclose the content? It is like living somewhere like North Korea.

 

[LandingLips]

I am SO glad that I’ve found this thread. I thought that I was the only one who is just completely gobsmacked by it all.

Me too! It’s refreshing to know others feel the same as I do!

 

[thegirlscout]

What on earth is going on?! Why is rape treated so lightly in this country?

 

[Platformcrocs]

Julie Bindel isn't pulling any punches!

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

Wasn't it initially reported that Charisma Amoe-Tarrant (also an Indigenous woman) would lose her place on the Olympic team in favour of Hubbard but then they retracted that and it's now Manumua instead. Before that, he took a medal that should have gone to Feagaiga Stowers. We have to shove aside young women of colour so a middle-aged white man can win a medal

 

[LaLa247]

I just can’t see how ‘Not ALL men but we don’t know which ones so we are always going to be fearful walking home etc’ and ‘No one would enter a woman’s space to harm a woman I’m not at all worried’ I don’t believe someone can genuinely hold them two beliefs, they’re lying one way or the other.

 

[jackolantern]

I'd like to make kink shaming great again. I'm sorry but if anyone is into cannibalism even as a fantasy they're a deviant and a sick pervert. No ifs or buts

This. I don't care if it offends someone, I'm not ok with the fact anyone fantasizes about eating someone, nor will I ever be. Just because someone has a right to have a kink doesn't mean they have a right for everyone to be ok with it. That's what people get twisted.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Has anyone else seen the Rachel Dozel (sp?) docu on Netflix. There’s always been chatter around the idea of being “transracial” and how offensive that is because a white person cannot experience the prejudices a black person does & they’ve also benefitted from socialisation or accruing social capital whilst white, and they also maintain the privilege of being able to present as white as/when needed. I’m surprised this hasn’t drawn more parallels with gender? And I feel society as a whole draws a like at transracial but gender is seen as entirely different? Genuinely would like to know why - like what would someone say I’m missing?

When I was having to reconsider my previously held opinions following the Bell case, the Dolezal documentary was one of the things I watched. Some people say she's a liar, but if you watch the documentary you'll see that she's a very damaged person. I believe from the docu that she genuinely believes that she's black...or rather that she has a psychological need to believe that she's black because she associates whiteness with her abusive puritan family. What Rachel Dolezal needs is therapy because this delusion, this maladaptive coping mechanism, isn't really helping her, or her kids, in the long run.

Dolezal was actually brought up in a debate (I think in australia) where there TWAW was being discussed. One of the people advocating for the 'GC' side brought up Dolezal as an example where self-proclaimed identity was contested and not accepted by society. It was an interesting debate as those advocating for the GC side tended to stick to facts and those advocating for TWAW made much more emotional appeals to the audience. I remember one person (a transwoman) went on about how trans people had always existed and were special spirits and artists and were exalted etc. But being an artist doesn't make you special or a good person. As discussed above with the RA, our galleries are stocked full of artists who were giant twats.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Yeah. I remember when this acquaintance of mine found out the sex of her third child, she kept posting about how sad she was that she wouldn't be able to go for manicures with a daughter, have shopping trips, pick out a wedding dress...

I've never had a manicure, I hate shopping with other people, and I'm not married. How the hell are people still defining womanhood in this way?

This is it, she might have had a daughter but ended up with a girl like George from the Famous 5. Sex isn't personality. I think there have also been a few cases where parents (seems to be mostly mums?) who are passionate about a kid being trans and it's ended up in a wrangle between the parents - there's one in the states I think and then there was a case over here in the UK that mermaids were involved with.

@Blaggings, my general concerns are:

Affirmative care: Medical practitioners being only allowed to affirm rather than explore trans identity no matter what the age of the patient means that vulnerable people may go down a path that won't be good for them in the long run. The growing number of detransitioners, many of whom were young and had comorbidities suggests that this is something to be concerned about. Also, staff at the Tavi were reported to have been concerned that parents were using transition to avoid having gay/lesbian children. I suspect something like that was going on with Suzie Green (head of mermaids) and Kai Shappley's mum.

Safeguarding: Many transwomen are just people suffering from a condition from gender dysphoria and are no threat to anyone. But if you build in a safeguarding loophole then the bad actors will come. Self ID will be awful for this because it means that a bad man no longer has any hurdles to jump - like transition. They merely need to state they are a woman and technically they can be in the Brownies as a woman. Ultimately we are not legislating here for the Munroe Bergdorf's of the world - we are legislating for the Aimee Challenor's and the Jessica Yaniv's. Yes, not all transwoman - but equally not all men and not all gun owners. I don't think every gun owner is a potential mass shooter, but we legislate based on the worst-case scenarios.

 

[emmer_moans]

<deep breath>

Hi. It is deeply worrying to me how nervous I am about posting on this thread (not because of you lot) because nailing any sort of colour, however nuanced, to this mast seems so fraught and almost a dangerous thing to do.

I have sat with my feelings about modern feminism for a long time and tried really hard to work out if I am just old and reactionary but I don’t think that’s the case.

@heretoreaditall2019 has brought me out of hiding as I have a lot of the same questions about how someone who has worked in tech for 20 years as a man can speak on ‘women in tech’ with any authority, no matter how they present now.

I have concerns about fairness in sport and vast concern about the erosion of safe spaces for women - I see no massive societal shift that means they are no longer required.

I worry so much about young people who aren’t happy with their bodies identifying as trans. I spent 2+ years of my childhood telling everyone who would listen that I was a boy (named Jack - enjoy the irony some of you), I think due to abuse as a younger girl and a need to try and find a way to be safe. Also massively preferred ‘traditionally boy’ games so that was prob a factor. I wonder what would have happened to me in these times because I was adamant on this point for a long time.

And a petty personal issue. I hate the ‘people with cervices’ smear thing. I don’t have a cervix as such (due to cervical cancer) but I do need regular smears (much more regular) because I’m obviously at risk of recurrence. There are still cells at the site that are cervical cells (interesting fact - cells migrate out of the vagina and turn into cervical cells, like they are trying to rebuild! Not a scientist so that may be slightly inaccurate!) So the category doesn’t fit me, but it would be extremely risky for me to not bother with smears.

I don’t want to cause anyone distress in their life, and will happily call anyone anything they wish to be called and use any pronoun they choose to employ but I worry about the long term societal and personal consequences of a lot of things. I don’t think I am trash, or unkind, or hateful but a lot of people who I like and respect seem to think that I am for thinking these things and that’s very tough.

I would talk about the fat acceptance/body positive movement too, but there’s only so much controversial stuff I can say in one post.

You are not a hateful person, the things you have listed are very important. . This is why I dislike the "be kind" mantra because it stops people questioning the very damaging implications on health, opportunities, oppression and abuse.

 

[Doc]

In light of the ruling, I would say that histrionics and freely throwing around the “transphobe” and “TERF” slur for someone politely expressing their belief should be checked. It seems to me that the “oppressed minority” are becoming the bigots.

 

[jewelkitty]

Fuck this, fuck this so much

Valentina Petrillo: 'Better to be a slow happy woman than a fast unhappy man'

If Valentina Petrillo is selected for Italy's squad in Tokyo this year, she will be the first trans woman Paralympian.

bbc.in

 

[LaLa247]

 

[Satisfying Click]

I dislike the way that children's events are being organised around drag (a friend took her baby to baby drag bingo - the women in the audience fawning and fangirling) and that parents are using it as performative wokeness (exhibit A - Myleene). Drag's history was about the deliberate parody of fixed gender roles and sexuality - just because there's glitter, wigs, fun colours etc, it doesn't mean it's appropriate for children.

 

[Platformcrocs]

That BBC article is incredibly irresponsible. Not a single mention of how damaging porn actually is.

An ex of mine had a porn addiction and there was nothing healthy about his porn consumption at all. But yeah, its all about exploration and removing the stigma, isn't it

 

[Gamu]

@philheybrookbay - you said this on the previous thread-
I’ll say one final thing. This darned explosion of Drag isn't helping matters- it's mudding the waters to such a degree that all kids want to be in a frock and make upon a weekend.

Whoever pushed for drag to be mainstream entertainment has done a good job. Mylene Klass held a drag theme party for her young daughter’s birthday at the weekend. I was a bit aghast at that. I don’t find drag entertainment at all, and highly suspect with misogynistic attitudes to women.

Edited to add link

Myleene Klass hits back at troll after they criticise drag party

The presenter, 43, responded to the troll who insisted that drag 'is for adults' by insisting her daughter chose the party's theme and simple wanted to celebrate 'inclusivity and diversity.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Why would a child want to celebrate inclusion and diversity? Why would an adult believe that to even be a factor in planning a party?

 

[Vee6]

Feel free to provide any data that says we are wrong ...