Gender Discussion #8

jackolantern · May 25, 2021

Penelope Strawberry said:
I echo your points exactly.

My MIL had to undergo a radical mastectomy and hysterectomy. It doesn't make her less of a woman.

Most certainly it does not <3

It is such a curious point in time to be in though. If someone wants to remove their penis and have it mutilated into a vagina we call it living their truth and creating the body and gender they truly are. But if I went to the doctor and I am extremely depressed because my leg or my eye feels alien to me and isn't the body I am supposed to have, can you chop it off/out, they'd send me to a mental institution faster than you could say gender. What's the difference? Woke culture and fear of being cancelled essentially.

JoeBloggs · May 25, 2021

We need a culture of acceptance not cancellation. Accept that you are who you are, whatever that may be but it cannot be changed. I want my kids to enjoy being them, they have been born the way they are and they should embrace that because that is them.

AnderbeauJohnson · May 25, 2021

jackolantern said:
Most certainly it does not <3

It is such a curious point in time to be in though. If someone wants to remove their penis and have it mutilated into a vagina we call it living their truth and creating the body and gender they truly are. But if I went to the doctor and I am extremely depressed because my leg or my eye feels alien to me and isn't the body I am supposed to have, can you chop it off/out, they'd send me to a mental institution faster than you could say gender. What's the difference? Woke culture and fear of being cancelled essentially.

There is a condition called Body Integrity Disorder (sometimes called transabled) where sufferers feel dysphoria related to parts of their bodies. Sometimes they end up amputating their own hands/legs to make the dysphoria stop or, in the case of the woman below, make themselves blind on purpose. Luckily doctors aren't going around amputating legs left, right and centre though.

Body integrity dysphoria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

emm · May 25, 2021

judgejohndeed said:
I think the Ellen Page thing is getting quite grotesque to watch to be honest? Ok, big deal, they're trans...why do we need a news article every time they have something else done to their body? It seems a weird mix of narcissism (if they really want these articles done about them) but also exploitative because she really doesn't look well at all. If trans people want being trans/having all this surgery etc to be normal, why do we need news articles about it every time it happens to someone famous? In the same way that I don't understand why someone coming out as gay is 'news' these days, the best way to normalise something seems to be to stop making a huge song and dance about it every time it happens

yeah I agree, we wouldn't commend anyone else for having plastic surgery in this way. they look worryingly thin imo, especially with the ridiculous abs. Yet again people who transition seem to become cliche versions of whatever gender they become, heavy makeup and heels if female, ridiculous abs if male

jackolantern · May 25, 2021

JoeBloggs said:
We need a culture of acceptance not cancellation. Accept that you are who you are, whatever that may be but it cannot be changed. I want my kids to enjoy being them, they have been born the way they are and they should embrace that because that is them.

Exactly this. Your body isn't who you are, it's anatomy and little more. Being born with breasts or without them, doesn't define how you have to live your life. Love who you love, like what you like, be you. Male and female are just words used to describe the difference between our biological features, no different to toast and jam. Okay, historically people within each category tend to share traits in common, but that doesn't make them compulsory by any means. If you are a biological man who wants to wear dresses, wear them. This is the society we need to promote, not mutilation to adhere to a stereotype you are saying doesn't exist in the first place.

maytoseptember · May 25, 2021

Bitofthebubbly said:
Didn’t realise ab impants were a thing but shouldn’t be surprised these days, slightly ot but I am so tired of humans feeling the need to artificially ‘enhance’ parts of their bodies. What ever happened to self acceptance? Genuine self acceptance, not “ill accept myself once I have x cosmetic surgery”. We are not Lego pieces you can’t just chop and change in the name of vanity with no consequences.

Ep looks like a teenage boy who has been doing tonnes of crunches but skipped leg and arm day. Also she may be able to look ‘manly’ when it’s pictures of just herself but stick her next to someone like Dwayne Johnson or even Kevin Hart who is considerably smaller than DJ, and the difference would be stark and obvious.

Oh they’re a thing alright. I’ll never forget this dude on celeb Big Brother. The fact they were installed on top of a beer gut is

But you’re right about trans men only being able to pass on a surface level, in photos. The difference is much more stark when stood next to biological men who are nearly a foot taller.

Having said that, I find that I can clock fully bearded trans men because their features under the facial hair are SO feminine. The mouths and smiles especially.

Like this person who is, unsurprisingly, an autistic female. Look at the feminine face and thick glossy hair.

It genuinely breaks my heart. The autistic community is tantalisingly close to figuring out the link between autism and dysphoria, but so far they just say “autistic people are MUCH more likely to be trans!” without questioning why. As a mother of autistic kids, I feel like I’ll need to drill self-acceptance into them at a really young age.

witchofwestbyfleet · May 25, 2021

"Horrifically violent"

The person this tweet is quoting co-hosts a podcast called "Blood & TERF" which tries to argue that anyone questioning gender ideology is linked to neo-Nazis, the alt-right, anti-abortion ideologists, eugenicists and other hate groups

maytoseptember · May 25, 2021

witchofwestbyfleet said:
"Horrifically violent"

I know language changes all the time yadda yadda, but “violent” really has lost all meaning these days.

jackolantern · May 25, 2021

I don't even know where we are heading with it all tbh because even if you adhere to the they/them thing you can't win. I work in a shop and I make a conscious effort to not say the lady/the gentleman etc when referring to customers so that I don't get a verbal bashing about trans acceptance, and since doing so, I've actually been verbally abused by two customers for saying "they/them" because it's impolite. One of the women actually took it very personally by suggesting that if I hadn't called her a woman I must think she was a trans man. Like for fuck sake, what do I do here?

The store I work in has also started to move toward gender neutral babywear and I couldn't put a number on the amount of times I've had it in the neck because "grey is so boring, who would dress a baby in this, I wanted pink it's a little girl! (or vice versa).

I'm half expecting wearing a pinbadge with my ruddy pronouns to be the next move. Think they'll let me use "pissed and off?"

rosemarina · May 25, 2021

Vee6 said:
And I’ve noticed the new photos of interviews always coincide with a detrans story. Keira bell. Then the other night there was a show on in America about detransotioners and Ellen pops up again.

I've noticed this too.

JoeBloggs · May 25, 2021

jackolantern said:
I don't even know where we are heading with it all tbh because even if you adhere to the they/them thing you can't win. I work in a shop and I make a conscious effort to not say the lady/the gentleman etc when referring to customers so that I don't get a verbal bashing about trans acceptance, and since doing so, I've actually been verbally abused by two customers for saying "they/them" because it's impolite. One of the women actually took it very personally by suggesting that if I hadn't called her a woman I must think she was a trans man. Like for fuck sake, what do I do here?

The store I work in has also started to move toward gender neutral babywear and I couldn't put a number on the amount of times I've had it in the neck because "grey is so boring, who would dress a baby in this, I wanted pink it's a little girl! (or vice versa).

I'm half expecting wearing a pinbadge with my ruddy pronouns to be the next move. Think they'll let me use "pissed and off?"

I don't either.

I read a tweet that I resonated with so much the other day, pronouns are used when talking about someone not to the person. Therefore, if they are being talked about not at then the pronoun 'misuse' isn't the necessarily the issue. Maybe everyone just needs a name badge and we only use names! I refuse to put pronouns on anything and always will.

jackolantern · May 25, 2021

JoeBloggs said:
I don't either.

I read a tweet that I resonated with so much the other day, pronouns are used when talking about someone not to the person. Therefore, if they are being talked about not at then the pronoun 'misuse' isn't the necessarily the issue. Maybe everyone just needs a name badge and we only use names! I refuse to put pronouns on anything and always will.

You can't use namebadges for people you don't know though, like on the street Maybe we just can't speak about other humans anymore incase god forbid we insult someone. Better a world where we all just pretend eachother doesn't exist clearly :/

JoeBloggs · May 25, 2021

jackolantern said:
You can't use namebadges for people you don't know though, like on the street Maybe we just can't speak about other humans anymore incase god forbid we insult someone. Better a world where we all just pretend eachother doesn't exist clearly :/

I would not be surprised if we do, when out in public have your badge not to cause offence to anyone

emm · May 25, 2021

witchofwestbyfleet said:
"Horrifically violent"

The person this tweet is quoting co-hosts a podcast called "Blood & TERF" which tries to argue that anyone questioning gender ideology is linked to neo-Nazis, the alt-right, anti-abortion ideologists, eugenicists and other hate groups

As far as I am aware neither the guardian nor the observer have ever published anything anti trans, quite the opposite tbh, didn't suzanne moore quit as a guardian journalist because of their lack of critical stance?

SqualorVictoria · May 25, 2021

Not quite, Suzanne Moore was bullied out of the job by Owen Jones and many others who signed a letter criticising her for writing an article about womens sex based rights. Which in the language of OJ and other TRAs is 'transphobic'. They claimed she made them feel 'unsafe' despite the fact that some of them were based in the US

On the subject of Ellen/ Elliott, here is her coming out as a lesbian statement from 2014

witchofwestbyfleet · May 25, 2021

Hadley Freeman has also published gender critical articles in the Guardian. There was one where she (unwisely) suggested that because she's female and Jewish it's not possible for her to be prejudiced against any other marginalised group. TRAs interpreted this as the Guardian's official editorial stance being "we believe nothing we publish can ever be transphobic!" rather than one person's opinion

Cocobaby09 · May 25, 2021

SqualorVictoria said:
Not quite, Suzanne Moore was bullied out of the job by Owen Jones and many others who signed a letter criticising her for writing an article about womens sex based rights. Which in the language of OJ and other TRAs is 'transphobic'. They claimed she made them feel 'unsafe' despite the fact that some of them were based in the US

On the subject of Ellen/ Elliott, here is her coming out as a lesbian statement from 2014

Seems quite GC to me.....

SqualorVictoria · May 25, 2021

Yeah I wonder what has changed since then. It's very sad

thegirlscout · May 25, 2021

maytoseptember said:
View attachment 589410

The surgeons who mutilate young autistic girls should be struck off.

Did anyone else see the tweets about genital nullification last week? It’s similar to this surgery, but instead of removing breasts and nipples it removes all trace of genitals. Of course I had to look at some photos The result is exactly like type III female genital mutilation. So on the one hand we have girls forcibly mutilated across the globe, and on the other we have adult women being allowed to choose it for themselves. These surgeons are a disgrace to the profession.

I understand your body is your body but having nipples removed seems very odd to me. This and gender nullification surgery makes me question the integrity of the doctors and surgeons allowing this because it doesn’t seem healthy for both your physical and mental health?

Read a bit more about nullification and feel quite queasy. Didn’t see any pictures which I’m glad of because I don’t think my stomach can take it!

emm · May 25, 2021

thegirlscout said:
I understand your body is your body but having nipples removed seems very odd to me. This and gender nullification surgery makes me question the integrity of the doctors and surgeons allowing this because it doesn’t seem healthy for both your physical and mental health?

Read a bit more about nullification and feel quite queasy. Didn’t see any pictures which I’m glad of because I don’t think my stomach can take it!

yeah the doctors should be suggesting therapy not surgery

Gender Discussion #8

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency