Gender Discussion #7

[Chocolate2008]

It might not be a lot of suicides (there was a documentary made a few years ago but I couldn't face watching it that mentioned it had happened to a lot of people the participant knew) but the numbers of forced sex changes are staggering:

Iran is forcing gay people to have gender ops against their will

IRAN is forcing thousands of gay people to undergo gender reassignment surgeries in a sick bid to “cleanse” the country of homosexuality. The Islamic Republic legalised transsexuality in 1987 and i…

web.archive.org

That's an article that goes into it more in depth - more than 4000 surgeries a year. It is a Sun link but it's an archive version so they won't get revenue/views if you click it.




I think that you can probably convince a three year old that they're trans if you tell them over and over but I do think in some cases it can be false memories. We've talked before on these threads about OCD and there have been times where, even though I know for a fact that something isn't true and never happened I can remember it fully because when you ruminate on something, your brain is capable of creating a memory to fit it. Brains are bizarre like that. I'm sure that if you have realised that you're trans as an adult then you'll do a lot of soul searching and ruminating and it could easily lead you to 'remember' thoughts and feelings and memories that never happened.

It could be false memories. It could also be a very casual use of language.
Personally I believe people are born in the wrong body, I just don’t believe they realise it as young as some people claim to.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

It might not be a lot of suicides (there was a documentary made a few years ago but I couldn't face watching it that mentioned it had happened to a lot of people the participant knew) but the numbers of forced sex changes are staggering:

Alan Turing was forced to take Estrogen when he was found out to be gay.


On another topic:

Exihibit A: pot

Exhibit B: Kettle

Spoiler: NSFW manga porn lesbian fetishization

 

[Zenchick101]

It could be false memories. It could also be a very casual use of language.
Personally I believe people are born in the wrong body, I just don’t believe they realise it as young as some people claim to.

What makes you so sure it's not just someone mentally ill? Genuinely am curious, because I don't believe in the "feelings" argument.

 

[Harrybosch]

It could be false memories. It could also be a very casual use of language.
Personally I believe people are born in the wrong body, I just don’t believe they realise it as young as some people claim to.

Genuine question: if someone is born with a medical condition or disability they would rather not have, are they also born in the wrong body? What about curly hair rather than straight? Where is the line and why?

I apologise if this comes across as combative. Don't mean it to be. But I simply can't understand the wrong body argument. We are our body. It's not separate (even though our mind may feel separate).

 

[mindlessness]

Oh dear

I'm pretty sure the many Australians who emigrated to Australia in the 70s when the revolution occurred, and the many who have come over as refugees since, would disagree with this setiment. Good Lord.

Are you ladies letting the gender debate have an impact on your vote? I feel stuck.

Not in the UK but I am stuck too.

Last year my state in Aus, Victoria, passed a 'conversion bill'. Which was awful. I emailed my local State MP (Labor - weirdly the party is spelt the American way, despite any other use of the word here being the British way). The form response from one of his staff was terrible. Full of TRA talking points and talking about gay conversion therapy as if its very common (it's not in Aus) without any recognition or awareness of the fact that the TRA tit is conversion therapy too. I responded with further concerns for women and gay men and women which she didn't address in the first email and got no reply. He's lost my vote. https://www.victorianwomensguild.org/conversion-therapy-bill

But the opposition (Liberal Party, not liberal, in fact conservative) in my state are a bit incompetent, and full of in fighting. Also they don't align with my politics on other social justice issues (they're anti-refugees for example). I feel politically homeless at the moment.

At the national level...well, uh...this is our current Prime Minister: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-fee...one-ignites-debate-over-religion-and-politics
https://www.news.com.au/finance/wor...e/news-story/fed9c971ac2a0e0e2217acd11a0ca74c

Scott Morrison faces fresh questions about when his office learned about alleged rape

Scott Morrison has called in the head of his department to investigate when the Prime Minister's Office learned about the alleged rape of a now-former Liberal staffer.

www.abc.net.au

He does not inspire confidence.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I thought even Stonewall have said now that being ‘born in the wrong body’ isn’t what they believe? How can a body be ‘wrong’, when someone has body dysmorphia we don’t say the body is wrong - it comes from within the mind.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I was told by a TRA that born in the wrong body is considered outdated by trans people but they use it as a metaphor for 'cis' people to understand. Which seemed like nonsense to me because if you can't clearly define something does it really exist

No one is born in the wrong body, it's a mental disorder.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

You only need to look at Ellen/ Elliot Paige's interview with Oprah to see how unhappy they are. Transitioning does not seem to have helped, it's actually painful to watch

 

[maytoseptember]

You only need to look at Ellen/ Elliot Paige's interview with Oprah to see how unhappy they are. Transitioning does not seem to have helped, it's actually painful to watch

I was literally about to post exactly this. EP looks so fragile and unwell (physically and mentally).

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I'm torn between feeling sorry for EP because EP seems so unwell but I'm also furious that there will undoubtedly be young impressionable girls who will look up to EP and then think they need to put themselves on a similar path to unhappiness

Also, it is a bit icky that EP's stunning and brave announcement eclipsed that of Keira Bell's trial. A white, rich actor eclipsing a young black woman who had been to hell and back

 

[rosemarina]

Isn’t that twice now that her announcements have coincided with Keira Bell announcements?

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I was also thinking about this last night. All the news about EP is that they are so happy but then the pictures look the opposite. Is it what the photographers are going for? Is it the look EP is going for? If so it's an odd choice to have an image that looks so opposite to the supposed emotion being expressed.

I can't help but feel really sorry for the wife. If Elliot knew they were a man from 3 years old, what were they doing marrying someone?

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I was looking at the pictures earlier and it shocked me how frail EP looked but then hearing them speak - they sound really unwell. Hopefully there is someone looking out for them and not just yes-men.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The cover of Time seemed like a moody boy mode thing, the equivalent of a TiM head tilt but she looks unwell and as for that interview with Oprah I've never seen anyone who is supposed to be comfortable and happy look the complete opposite.

I would highly doubt that anyone decent is on her side- look at how vulnerable rich women are preyed on by vultures with an agenda in Hollywood and music. Amy Winehouse, Britney, etc

 

[Cocobaby09]

Oh dear

I can't stand him, cheat.

I emailed my local Tory MP with my concerns about everything that's going on and how I feel politically homeless. He sent such a well thought out response and clearly agrees with us all.

Are you ladies letting the gender debate have an impact on your vote? I feel stuck.

Absolutely. We have the Scottish parliament elections in a week, and the candidates who aren't on board with this utter nonsense have my vote. I loathe the SNP anyway but Nicola Sturgeon has sold us down the river, she's even using pronouns now and the Scottish Greens simply hate women.

I'm torn between feeling sorry for EP because EP seems so unwell but I'm also furious that there will undoubtedly be young impressionable girls who will look up to EP and then think they need to put themselves on a similar path to unhappiness

Also, it is a bit icky that EP's stunning and brave announcement eclipsed that of Keira Bell's trial. A white, rich actor eclipsing a young black woman who had been to hell and back

Agreed. It's quite disgusting.

Also...I think EP is ill and deeply troubled.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

On politics, I will not vote Tory. Austerity, foodbanks, how badly they dealt with covid, contracts for mates, tightening the border only on refugees and not on covid, Brexit, bleeping things up in NI, deporting people who came over in the windrush times etc etc etc.

ETA: making protest effectively illegal.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This is from last summer but I only found out about it last night. I loved Garbage in the 90s and thought Shirley Manson was great but this is so disappointing. Bear in mind this was tweeted after George Floyd so that makes it even more gross. How many 'TERFs' have killed someone by kneeling on their necks? The analogy makes a real mockery of George Floyd and it's pretty disgusting that a white middle aged woman used that as a stick to beat women with

 

[rosemarina]

Good god.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

This is from last summer but I only found out about it last night. I loved Garbage in the 90s and thought Shirley Manson was great but this is so disappointing. Bear in mind this was tweeted after George Floyd so that makes it even more gross. How many 'TERFs' have killed someone by kneeling on their necks? The analogy makes a real mockery of George Floyd and it's pretty disgusting that a white middle aged woman used that as a stick to beat women with

Gutted. She talks a lot of sense, I follow her on FB. But she can get in the bin now.

 

[Vee6]