Gender Discussion #54

[weeweegie]

I'm not saying it to tone police, I'm saying it because I don't believe it's an intelligence issue. I think people's reason for being a TRA isn't stupidity

Honestly I know where you are coming from but I’ve given this a lot of thought and I genuinely think the cognitive dissonance it takes to ignore reality and facts because you feel sorry for someone’s mental struggles, shows a huge lack in critical thinking and yes, likely missing a few brain cells. What other explanation could there be?

I also think a lot of those who affirm do not actually believe people can be born in the wrong body, they are just going along with it to be ‘kind’, an easy life, to fit in, out of fear of being called a bigot etc etc and they don’t see the harm in indulging someone.

 

[Badirene]

Wil

I don't think labelling people as not very bright is the best way to keep debate open and challenging to us all. I have no issue saying men are men and women are women but I do feel for those who feel they are in the wrong body in the same way I have compassion on those who have other body dysphoric or dysmorphic like anorexia.

I don't think those who affirm men who want to be women are stupid, I think they want to be caring and helpful and have been told people will commit suicide if we don't affirm how they feel.

So would those people act kind and caring by procuring weight loss surgery for people struggling with anorexia in order to affirm them?
Anorexia I think is an interesting comparison, we have a person ill at ease in their own body, making modifications to it so body and brain/belief "match", yet anorexia sufferers get mental health support not affirmation of their feelings.

 

[klarakluckbag]

Honestly I know where you are coming from but I’ve given this a lot of thought and I genuinely think the cognitive dissonance it takes to ignore reality and facts because you feel sorry for someone’s mental struggles, shows a huge lack in critical thinking and yes, likely missing a few brain cells. What other explanation could there be?

I also think a lot of those who affirm do not actually believe people can be born in the wrong body, they are just going along with it to be ‘kind’, an easy life, to fit in, out of fear of being called a bigot etc etc and they don’t see the harm in indulging someone.

BIB...This is one of the biggest reasons I think. No-one wants to be considered a bigot, and the fear of this has really stifled free speech. It's ok for CS to cheat women out of sporting glory, but we're not allowed to say anything because it might hurt his feelings. I would never insult CS because he's black, and I would never insult him because he's a man with a genetic disorder. But that doesn't give him the right to be a sports cheat. I think I'm perfectly entitled to insult him for that, he can't help being a man with a physical development disorder. But he can help being a cheat.
As that redditer said...just let him run. No-one's stopping him from running. Just not against elite women!

 

[Avenged7Fold]

BIB...This is one of the biggest reasons I think. No-one wants to be considered a bigot, and the fear of this has really stifled free speech. It's ok for CS to cheat women out of sporting glory, but we're not allowed to say anything because it might hurt his feelings. I would never insult CS because he's black, and I would never insult him because he's a man with a genetic disorder. But that doesn't give him the right to be a sports cheat. I think I'm perfectly entitled to insult him for that, he can't help being a man with a physical development disorder. But he can help being a cheat.
As that redditer said...just let him run. No-one's stopping him from running. Just not against elite women!

It was when he said his competitors should be quiet and train harder. I lost all sympathy for him as an athlete then. Showing his male privilege.

 

[PryingPenny]

So would those people act kind and caring by procuring weight loss surgery for people struggling with anorexia in order to affirm them?
Anorexia I think is an interesting comparison, we have a person ill at ease in their own body, making modifications to it so body and brain/belief "match", yet anorexia sufferers get mental health support not affirmation of their feelings.

That is exactly my point, they wouldn't, but it's not that those who offer support to anorexic people are more intelligent than those who do surgery on people who believe they are born in the wrong body. It's not an issue of how smart you are, I'm sure a lot of the Harley Street doctors who perform surgeries every day for any manner of things are very intelligent. Telling someone "believing men can become women makes you stupid" is not going to change their mind

 

[VC10]

I think the Caster Semenya case is particularly concerning because the TRAs are waiting in the wings to use it to further justify TIMs taking women’s places in competitive sports. Semenya ‘hopes to overturn requirements that female athletes such as herself have to medically change their testosterone levels in order to compete in female competitions’ at the ECHR. If Semenya is successful, what are the implications for TIMs who say they are ‘female’?

Semenya further complicates matters because although not trans, has said that
“even though I understand that those in the medical community call me an ‘intersex’ person because of the way my internal organs are structured, I do not call myself ‘intersex’. That identity doesn’t fit me, it doesn’t fit my soul.” So again, there is this conflation between biological reality and ‘feelings’ or a ‘gendered soul.’

Caster Semenya on being told ‘you’re not woman enough’

The two-time Olympic champion has been the subject of fierce debate in the sports community about her status as a female athlete

www.independent.co.uk

T
I agree with you- and I'd say that how someone ' feels' in themselves or in their mindset, " id" ; isn't WHAT they are , its WHO they are in their mind, as a person.......
Biologically DNA, Chromosome, they are Sexed. semenya is a male DNA.
---

Spot on!
There will always be people with "alternative beliefs" on a wide range of topics that the rest of us roll our eyes at, but they usually have little influence on our daily lives. It doesn't matter if my neighbour believes the world is flat; I can choose to either politely nod or enter a fierce debate. I don't have to tiptoe around, watch my (scientifically correct) language or worry about being "cancelled" in any way.

But if that same neighbour is towering over me at 6' 5, wearing lipstick and a dress - and insisting that he is a woman - the same rules don't apply. If I turn to scientific articles to back up my opinion that the earth isn't flat I'll find an abundance of material online, easily available. But if I go to reputable medical sites I'll be faced with gender-woo terms.

Periods are very problematical for the Trans Activists. If men change into biological women as they claim, then periods should happen. And the opposite should be true - women who change into biological men should stop having periods. Of course neither happens, which doesn't suit the narrative and so the mental gymnastics begin.

TIMs do have periods, just without the bleeding.
TIFs also have periods - very manly periods, not those female ones.
Periods are not an exclusively female experience, and mustn't be referred to as such - because of "hurt feelings".

Here's a quick example. This website is "An official website of the United States government" offering Biotechnology Information. Therefore it is reasonable to expect to find scientific information and discussion.
View attachment 2560993

From their bookshelf I found this gem of information.

View attachment 2560998

Here's the link if you want to wade through this depressing literature.

Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

Without reading it all, it appears to be complaining that women who say they are men have a difficult time coping with menstruation. Who would have thought, eh?

The familiar theme of victimisation of these women is woven throughout.
"Considered together, menstrunormativity, cisnormativity, and heteronormativity intra-act, and are mutually reinforcing, in the Othering of trans menstruators within various areas related to menstruation".

Here's how one woman deals with her period.
"Other trans menstruators deal with unwanted periods by subverting the meaning of menstruation. For example, the blood can be visualized as making oneself manlier.
One of my research participants explained that putting on a specific pair of briefs helped him look upon his bleedings as a superpower making him special, as compared to other men".

I'm disappointed that this is to be found on a website purporting to have "Biotechnology Information".
Sadly, it's not a one-off example and makes me wonder what is happening to Science.

What's happening to science?.....


It's all going woo-wooo round in nonsensical circles and disappearing up its own a , like the oozlum bird did. Like Humans will end up , taking on board balls ,like this issue......

 

[Django]

T
I agree with you- and I'd say that how someone ' feels' in themselves or in their mindset, " id" ; isn't WHAT they are , its WHO they are in their mind, as a person.......
Biologically DNA, Chromosome, they are Sexed. semenya is a male DNA.
---

What's happening to science?.....


It's all going woo-wooo round in nonsensical circles and disappearing up its own a , like the oozlum bird did. Like Humans will end up , taking on board balls ,like this issue......

 

[LadyAlys]

I’ve been to plenty of events where TRAs have just screamed and shouted abuse, trying to shut us up. So many of them just parrot what they’ve been told and don’t even bother to read things for themselves ( eg JK’s apparent “ transphobia”)
What are they scared of? The evidence of science and millions of years of evolution? What’s are the cogent arguments, the evidence for this ideology? Yep, I think most of them are stupid because they follow blindly on and resort to intimidation and violence. Children, I can excuse, as they are being brain washed and lied to. Adults should read and learn for themselves.
Have any TRAs that have come onto this thread EVER produced cohesive arguments or evidential basis for gender ideology? No. It’s a theory developed by p****philes, fetishists and women haters. It has no basis in reality.

 

[Ilovemusic]

Had an email today advertising a local creators/artists/craft market, looked at the link to see what is on offer. Lo and behold, there's a stallholder who sells keychains in Pride colours with "duck Terfs" inscribed on them. Is that called artistic licence?

 

[Miggsy]

I don't think any of the pronouns/be kind/TWAW crew really believe that a man in a dress is a woman, they just say it to avoid being thought bigots/transphobic and 'it's such a small thing at no cost to me to make them feel comfortable' etc. FWIW I don't believe anyone can be 'born in the wrong body' your body is your body and that's that. If people do have gender confusion/dysphoria I do feel for them and wish them well in accessing support (as long as they are mentally competent adults) but that doesn't extend to accepting them as the opposite sex and into spaces/facilities for that opposite sex.

 

[Vacuous]

I wonder how many TWAW hetero men would bag a TIM?
Zero. They all know wtf a woman us when they want a bag.

 

[ThisIsMyGuiltyPleasure]

Had an email today advertising a local creators/artists/craft market, looked at the link to see what is on offer. Lo and behold, there's a stallholder who sells keychains in Pride colours with "duck Terfs" inscribed on them. Is that called artistic licence?

But if someone made keychains saying "duck Trans" they'd be publicly hung drawn and quartered.

 

[SkippyDoo]

I wonder how many TWAW hetero men would bag a TIM?
Zero. They all know wtf a woman us when they want a bag.

Of course. Relationship Purposes Robin (see attached…)!

(Robin’s account deleted and now belongs to someone else with same handle btw)

 

[Glaschelle]

I think this is the couple that Self Esteem was fundraising for. It just doesn't make sense, you cant deny you are a woman, View attachment 2559704

It makes me angry that they say they were surprised to get pregnant, if you're someone with a uterus having P in V sex with your male partner why would you not take precautions? I would imagine that a baby conceived by a 'trans man' is more at risk than a baby conceived by a woman. The birth story shows it wasn't a normal or easy birth and I think that's selfish

View attachment 2559705

And their partner is the *awful* drag queen Bailey who makes my skin crawl, like a League of Gentlemen character brought to life.

View attachment 2559706

I hope that baby has other people in her life to give some sort of balance of what is and isn't normal.

Okay, I know I'm a bit thick but is this not a woman sleeping with man and she becomes pregnant??? She might kid on she's a man (maybe to please her boyfriend) but biology says Nnnoooooo

This reminds me of the queer folk I work with. Straight women in straight relationships but they're "queer" Why do gay people put up with this. For me it's some sort of cultural appropriation!!!

And talking of cultural appropriation, it seems Buffy Sainte Marie isn't Native American but has pretending for years. The actress who picked up Marlon Brando's Oscar was the same.

But!!! Honestly what's the difference between pretending to be a different culture than pretending to be a different gender???

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

I wonder how many TWAW hetero men would bag a TIM?
Zero. They all know wtf a woman us when they want a bag.

That's what made my husband come round to reality. An old friend of his - who had previously been a cross dresser - decided he'd always been a woman and was now transitioning**

We got into a full on shouting argument about my terfiness and I was very upset with him for preferring to side with a bloke who dressed up for kicks over his wife of 20 years who was telling him how detrimental to the rights of women gender ideology is. Eventually we got to
"Would you have sex with ***"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Well for loads of reasons"
"Like?"
"Well just loads"
"Main one being...?"
<<shamefacedly>> "Because he's a bloke"
bleeping bingo! He's full on TERF now

**At some point I may go further into this and tell the whole long story, but now isn't the time

 

[Metropolis]

Okay, I know I'm a bit thick but is this not a woman sleeping with man and she becomes pregnant???

And then comes out with a crappy, gaslighting quote like this to put on the cover of a magazine: “I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof.”
Living proof of what exactly? You are not some strange species formally thought to be extinct. You’re one of millions of females who get pregnant every year. Your existence has never been called into question.

Logan Brown: ‘I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof’

GLAMOUR’s Pride coverstar talks queer love, dealing with transphobia and his journey to parenthood.

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk

 

[MaineCoonMama]

And then comes out with a crappy, gaslighting quote like this to put on the cover of a magazine: “I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof.”
Living proof of what exactly? You are not some strange species formally thought to be extinct. You’re one of millions of females who get pregnant every year. Your existence has never been called into question.

Logan Brown: ‘I’m a pregnant trans man and I do exist. No matter what anyone says, I am literally living proof’

GLAMOUR’s Pride coverstar talks queer love, dealing with transphobia and his journey to parenthood.

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk

I feel bad for the families of people like this. Imagine having to censor everything you say in case they're triggered by you accidentally calling them Sue instead of Dave. No conversational flow, no jokes, no other topic but them and their 'journey'.
Suck the life out of you whilst boring the a off you at the same time.

My opinion has nothing to do with whether someone is trans or not, I'm at the age now where I just flat out can't humour this type of mood Hoover tit.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

That is exactly my point, they wouldn't, but it's not that those who offer support to anorexic people are more intelligent than those who do surgery on people who believe they are born in the wrong body. It's not an issue of how smart you are, I'm sure a lot of the Harley Street doctors who perform surgeries every day for any manner of things are very intelligent. Telling someone "believing men can become women makes you stupid" is not going to change their mind

It's ideological nonsense IMVHO. Reducing women to a nuance, an idea, and erasing and dehumanising us so we become a set of body parts 'bleeders', 'cervix havers', 'people who procreate' is not just stupid. It is disingenuous, evil and terrifying. I couldn't give a duck about being kind to men who want to wear dresses - the trans movement has been hijacked by perverts who want to use the ladies so they can have a good old tank whilst women in their spaces run scared.

 

[Miggsy]

I feel bad for the families of people like this. Imagine having to censor everything you say in case they're triggered by you accidentally calling them Sue instead of Dave. No conversational flow, no jokes, no other topic but them and their 'journey'.
Suck the life out of you whilst boring the a off you at the same time.

My opinion has nothing to do with whether someone is trans or not, I'm at the age now where I just flat out can't humour this type of mood Hoover tit.

Agreed I couldn’t be doing with these joyless holes at all.

 

[Badirene]

Okay, I know I'm a bit thick but is this not a woman sleeping with man and she becomes pregnant??? She might kid on she's a man (maybe to please her boyfriend) but biology says Nnnoooooo

This reminds me of the queer folk I work with. Straight women in straight relationships but they're "queer" Why do gay people put up with this. For me it's some sort of cultural appropriation!!!

And talking of cultural appropriation, it seems Buffy Sainte Marie isn't Native American but has pretending for years. The actress who picked up Marlon Brando's Oscar was the same.

But!!! Honestly what's the difference between pretending to be a different culture than pretending to be a different gender???

Well pretending to be a another culture is very different from pretending to be another gender. One involves assuming the identity of a traditionally marginalised group and the other involves assuming the identity of a traditionally marginalised group. So obviously very different for ......reasons. So this is why Rachel Dolezal is to be shunned and Susie Eddie Izzard affirmed.