So what I'm getting from this is that you don't agree with what we say and instead of listening to us and the facts we are presenting or engaging in helpful, learned discourse you'd prefer to label us all as hateful. Like others have said, we actually have numerous posters here that have changed their minds after reading the threads. If you don't feel up to being open-minded and following along and would like to just use that as an excuse then go right ahead. You might think it's okay but I personally think it's a damn shame.
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Incorrect. A person with XY chromosomes is a man. He is a man. He has a genetic disorder which only affects males. The normal male sexual development fails in utero, resulting in what appears to be a tina at birth but is actually an under developed pen. He has XY chromosomes, testes and produces a normal amount of testosterone for an adult male.
You're not going to convince me he's a woman and you won't accept he's a man.
If anyone is interested, this is the Court of Arbitration for Sport’s ruling https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_-_redacted_-_Semenya_ASA_IAAF.pdf
Ooo what a great point! Hadn’t really made the link before to creationism, imagine if schools and institutions still taught that as fact ….If we started teaching Creationism as scientific fact in our schools, there would be an outcry, no matter how "passionate and righteous" the teachers. But telling kids that some "men can be mummies" is somehow ok? What a load of crap!
Gender ideology is really similar to a religious belief being forced on people. I can’t get my head around it when CLEARLY it’s basic biology (ok apart from in the tiny tiny minority of intersex situations which are a bit more complicated). I just repeat myself but I can’t understand why so many intelligent, educated, professionals go along with the anti-scientific nonsense. It makes me feel stupid like *i’m* the one who must have got this stuff wrong !?
But… a man can’t grow a baby.
How are kids supposed to understand any of this stuff when we’ve got books about growing in daddy’s tummy
I know we flogged the Caster Semenya issue to death yesterday, but I was browsing Reddit and the Olympics sub is absolutely teeming with people (definitely men) scratching their chins saying it’s SO complicated and SO nuanced. Several quite confidently spouting a ton of absolute bull such as CS is neither male nor female, has a working uterus/menstrual cycle etc.
This is why we’ll never get to the bottom of this issue. People are stupid.
This is why we’ll never get to the bottom of this issue. People are stupid.
That commenter could have realised how wrong they were with a 10 second Google search. Nobody has ever said Caster has periods as they don't have a uterus
Caster
Women don’t have Y chromosomes, hope that helps. CS also doesn’t have any female reproductive organs. There’s something mentioned about an internal vaginal scan, not entirely convinced they have something they would enable this.
Being DSD cannot be easy, but that doesn’t mean we as women owe him our spaces and sporting achievements.
I have to say I’ve never personally warmed to Stella O’Malley and the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast. I find her and Sasha Ayad too wishy-washy with their opinions, and a bit too wedded to the trutrans narrative.
You have to admit there’s something rather jarring about Genspect, an organisation ostensibly out there to promote “a healthy approach to sex and gender” (their words) having galloping AGPs in attendance.
I see it’s being framed two ways: (1) he was entitled to attend, and he’s simply a man in a dress, big deal and (2) he’s an AGP, he’s literally written a book about being an AGP, so to have him there getting a sexual thrill at involving all attendees in his fetish is pretty gross. I know which side I’m on.
Holy heck this gender stuff makes my head hurt. I have no idea how my children are going to be messed up with all this when they're growing up. They're 6 and 8 and I'm already being asked 'what's their gender?' about people.
Spot on!
There will always be people with "alternative beliefs" on a wide range of topics that the rest of us roll our eyes at, but they usually have little influence on our daily lives. It doesn't matter if my neighbour believes the world is flat; I can choose to either politely nod or enter a fierce debate. I don't have to tiptoe around, watch my (scientifically correct) language or worry about being "cancelled" in any way.
But if that same neighbour is towering over me at 6' 5, wearing lipstick and a dress - and insisting that he is a woman - the same rules don't apply. If I turn to scientific articles to back up my opinion that the earth isn't flat I'll find an abundance of material online, easily available. But if I go to reputable medical sites I'll be faced with gender-woo terms.
Periods are very problematical for the Trans Activists. If men change into biological women as they claim, then periods should happen. And the opposite should be true - women who change into biological men should stop having periods. Of course neither happens, which doesn't suit the narrative and so the mental gymnastics begin.
TIMs do have periods, just without the bleeding.
TIFs also have periods - very manly periods, not those female ones.
Periods are not an exclusively female experience, and mustn't be referred to as such - because of "hurt feelings".
Here's a quick example. This website is "An official website of the United States government" offering Biotechnology Information. Therefore it is reasonable to expect to find scientific information and discussion.
From their bookshelf I found this gem of information.
Here's the link if you want to wade through this depressing literature.
Without reading it all, it appears to be complaining that women who say they are men have a difficult time coping with menstruation. Who would have thought, eh?
The familiar theme of victimisation of these women is woven throughout.
"Considered together, menstrunormativity, cisnormativity, and heteronormativity intra-act, and are mutually reinforcing, in the Othering of trans menstruators within various areas related to menstruation".
Here's how one woman deals with her period.
"Other trans menstruators deal with unwanted periods by subverting the meaning of menstruation. For example, the blood can be visualized as making oneself manlier.
One of my research participants explained that putting on a specific pair of briefs helped him look upon his bleedings as a superpower making him special, as compared to other men".
I'm disappointed that this is to be found on a website purporting to have "Biotechnology Information".
Sadly, it's not a one-off example and makes me wonder what is happening to Science.
I wonder if some of this gender identity stuff is because we really dont use the right terms in general life. So we prefer to use the word gender because the word sex feels more weird. We say there will be a gender reveal not a sex reveal (not endorsing this weird industry of making that a whole 'thing').
What if this tit does take hold in schools and becomes gradually accepted though? What if in a hundred years from now, people studying history will say, “ah yes, before we became enlightened, everyone believed xy=male and xx=female. Now we know it’s much more nuanced and that male and female is only superficially biological and there’s much more to it than that.” @Penguinfeet above says that her young children are already asking what gender people are. So they’ve already been taught not to accept the evidence of their own eyes and that biology might not determine whether someone is male or female. It’s very depressing.
I’ve always wondered why it’s called a “gender reveal”. Surely it’s a sex reveal
If you’re announcing to the world what sex your baby is, then when it grows older it decides it is a different gender, the whole sex reveal was a complete waste of time and money.
I hate “gender reveal” culture so muchI’ve always wondered why it’s called a “gender reveal”. Surely it’s a sex reveal
If you’re announcing to the world what sex your baby is, then when it grows older it decides it is a different gender, the whole sex reveal was a complete waste of time and money.
I blame the Americans
I did feel sorry for CS when the situation first arose. But that was because I believed the situation to be that CS sex was not ascertainable 100% at birth, and CS was intersex, and CS was socialised and raised as a girl. And that it was only when CS started competitive running that questions were asked about CS hormone levels and I felt sorry for CS having to undergo undignified procedures and backlash from other runners. However, it is clear now, even if not then (which it may be), that that was not the case and that CS is male with a DSD. Of course I get for CS this feels crap but it is what it is and what looks like fairness to CS ie CS competing in women's sports is not fair to women athletes. Why does this one person get the world to revolve round them and everyone else shat on, and that's supposed to be OK? Well it's not OK. CS should have long ago accepted CS is male, not female, had no place in women's sports, has not been hard done by, the world doesn't revolve around CS and STFU.
Exactly. His argument for competing against women is that his condition means he cant match the men's times in elite sports..... Well that's true nearly all men who've ever lived. That's why they're not competing in elite sports.
The foundation of it all is his belief that if he didn't have the DSD he would be able to match the mens times, but with it he can only hope to beat women. But Any man born with a physical disadvantage can say "well if Id developed the long legs I thought I'd grow up to have, I'd be able to match the men in elite sports" so why is semenyas condition treated differently.
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Oh and even more bizzarely he says he shouldn't be blocked from competing against women because its the only way he can make money and earn a living. No explanation as to why there is literally no other career in the world that he could embark on.
Well what if the only way I can make money is by selling class A drugs will they give me a free pass around the rules? Or will I be expected to go and find a different career path?
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Just asked DIL to clarify. She teaches human biology( including all the “exceptions” to the binary rule that are still only male or female)to student nurses, so is a “ biologist”, “ this is pathological and a male. He is not a woman. He is an underdeveloped man. “
I don’t know why the TRAs come onto this thread. They will only change our minds if they present actual evidence. They are not very bright.
I don't think labelling people as not very bright is the best way to keep debate open and challenging to us all. I have no issue saying men are men and women are women but I do feel for those who feel they are in the wrong body in the same way I have compassion on those who have other body dysphoric or dysmorphic like anorexia.
I don't think those who affirm men who want to be women are stupid, I think they want to be caring and helpful and have been told people will commit suicide if we don't affirm how they feel.
Honey people say far worse things on this website lmao saying TRAs aren’t very bright is fine
this is the one thread where tone policing language is particularly sillyI'm not saying it to tone police, I'm saying it because I don't believe it's an intelligence issue. I think people's reason for being a TRA isn't stupidityHoney people say far worse things on this website lmao saying TRAs aren’t very bright is fine
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