Gender Discussion #54

[Mismatched Pegs]

Imagine someone GC tweeting this but substituting "transwomen" for TERF. There'd be a bleeping riot from that lot.
Anyway we don't want you hanging out with us in the pub. Or the women's toilets, changing rooms, sports, grape crisis centres or anywhere else that is female only. So it's a bit of a mute point India.

 

[Vanelope]

You say ‘cold’ (I don’t see it myself)
I say ‘doesn’t take any tit)

 

[Vacuous]

I'm a 50 something no tit giving TERF. bleeping too right.

 

[Shire-life]

I'm a 50 something no tit giving TERF. bleeping too right.

Me too.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

India’s in his 50s and claims to be a woman so he shouldn’t be making fun of a demographic that he thinks includes him, should he? He really tells on himself

 

[Metropolis]

Himdia is always tweeting tit like that denigrating the looks and choice of clothes of any woman he doesn’t agree with. It all comes from a position of spite and jealousy that can only be held by a man who knows only too well that whatever claptrap he espouses, he will never attain a modicum of femininity which is always present in even the most gender non-conforming biological women.

 

[Notworthy]

Such a shame that Himdia can't attain the levels of invisibility that actual Women are subjected to post 50

 

[maytoseptember]

I’m in a parent group with a load of other mums from my sons old special school. One of the mums I’m friends with has a daughter who has just moved over to the SEN part of a nearby college. Today she handed her mum this letter. She has severe learning difficulties and a chromosome condition, has no concept of gender and has obviously been coached into writing and printing it as she lacks the capacity to do it independently.
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Going back to this, I know KJK has been supporting some mothers recently re. gender ideology in schools. I’d be tempted to blow the whistle and contact her to let her know what staff in schools are doing with their vulnerable students in a SEN school - but only if you think your friend wouldn’t object.

 

[Elle]

Pronouns have an original function and its the only way they have any function.they provide context,clarity and help to enforce safety protocols too

you are in a camp of some hundreds of millions campaigning to absolutely obliterate their function & make them compelled speech that uselessly duplicates part of the job of a first name.

you cannot be surprised that given the major contextual information biological sex gives to human society there are counter hundreds of millions.. actually billions globally who use pronouns for their only functional application, to indicate sex for which "Gender" was once a helpful synonym that distinguished the biological categories from the act of intercourse.

if you don't afford Rachel Dolezal status as an African American you should really reconsider using a neutral plural for Mae

Thanks Silverspin for your informative reply. What you've said is all based on science so actually undeniably factual.

But you did lose me at Rachel Dolezal (haven't thought about her in a long time!). I'm a white woman so perhaps not my place to say but I personally think pretending to be a different race isn't comparable to wishing to be addressed with they/them pronouns. I think even if 'non-binary' doesn't make sense to someone, the non-binary person isn't hurting anyone.

AGPs on the other hand (a new term I learned from here and sort of wish I didn't know because it's so disturbing) have sinister motives.

 

[PryingPenny]

But you did lose me at Rachel Dolezal (haven't thought about her in a long time!). I'm a white woman so perhaps not my place to say but I personally think pretending to be a different race isn't comparable to wishing to be addressed with they/them pronouns. I think even if 'non-binary' doesn't make sense to someone, the non-binary person isn't hurting anyone.

I think the issue is when people feel they can coopt an identity just by wishing to be it and 'pretending', particularly when that is an more marginalised identity. So if a white woman wants to pretend to be black, at any point she can go back to her privilege but a black person may have had to face discrimination and hatred for their identity for their entire life. In the same way a man pretending he is a woman and then thinking he understands what being a woman is has missed the years of harassment and marginalisation and violence that many women experience. We don't talk much about trans men in here because it seems to be more of a minority, and the women who choose to present as men are actually making themselves more vulnerable if they enter male spaces. I'm an umbrella academy fan and found the whole Ellen/Elliot Page thing quite odd as, in the show, when Vanya became Victor it was celebrated and lauded as a great thing, but the character looked ridiculous next to the actual men in the show, I wouldn't have thought Elliot Page would get roles as a man except for niche ones, apart from Hollywood's love of championing diversity.

I don't know any kind of statistics on people who want to be 'gender neutral' and then from that choose to transition to present as the opposite gender, or if people remain 'gender neutral' but having top surgery suggests wanting to appear like a man to me.

 

[maytoseptember]

I'm a white woman so perhaps not my place to say but I personally think pretending to be a different race isn't comparable to wishing to be addressed with they/them pronouns. I think even if 'non-binary' doesn't make sense to someone, the non-binary person isn't hurting anyone.

I think you’re being a teensy bit obtuse here because we’re not just talking about non-binary, but transgenderism more generally.

The correlation is obvious - why can’t Rachel Dolezal identify as black (trans black, if you will) when anyone can identify as transgender?

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I'd bet London to a brick that I don't look a bit like what Himdia thinks a Terf looks like. Even though all I wear is band tees, leggings or shorts and sometimes a dress I can guarantee if we were put in a room together 100% of people would know I'm an actual XX chromosome having woman and he's not.

He can shout all he wants, he's just making a fool of himself.

I am also a kind-hearted old softy when it comes to old folk, animals and children. You know, the ones who really need to be looked after. Dumb a.

 

[Doll Parts]

I'd bet London to a brick that I don't look a bit like what Himdia thinks a Terf looks like. Even though all I wear is band tees, leggings or shorts and sometimes a dress I can guarantee if we were put in a room together 100% of people would know I'm an actual XX chromosome having woman and he's not.

He can shout all he wants, he's just making a fool of himself.

I am also a kind-hearted old softy when it comes to old folk, animals and children. You know, the ones who really need to be looked after. Dumb a.

Yep, I'm a (relatively) young, leftie vegan, very feminine presenting woman who helps out at the local dog rescue, and 100 percent TERF. Not exactly what India would like to paint us all as.

 

[IndominusRex]

India is such a vile misogynist.

 

[Doll Parts]

I remember India on the local news back when he was still Jonathan and he was so insipid.

 

[IndominusRex]

Glosswitch on good form as ever https://thecritic.co.uk/ive-done-the-work-thanks/

 

[Sea]

...
If you don't afford Rachel Dolezal status as an African American you should really reconsider using a neutral plural for Mae

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

duck ya!!! Love it when people can just absolute nail the point 🩷

 

[Elle]

duck ya!!! Love it when people can just absolute nail the point 🩷

Fair play. Wish I could speak this eloquently about ANYTHING

 

[glubby]

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This is why I won't engage with these men,

Ironically it was comments like these that made me start questioning the whole trans situation. I went along with the “be kind, every identity is valid” stuff for a long time but it really started to bother me the way men on the left are so quick to be horribly misogynistic and ageist towards woman in the name of ‘being a good ally’, while they pat themselves on the back for how sensible and progressive they are.

Anyway hi GC thread, I’m another one who was taken in by it all for years and the penny has finally dropped. Always had things that didn’t sit right for me but kept my mouth shut for fear of being labeled as a bigot. Things like having to pretend AGP isn’t a thing when it is obviously everywhere, or not allowing detransitioners to tell their stories for fear of making the movement look bad, or expecting women to set aside our own instincts to keep ourselves safe for fear of hurting a man’s feelings…Well it took me a long time and I have a lot to learn but I get it now, thanks.