Maybe take your own advice luv
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What a fantastic post. Can we have it pinned at the top of every thread?
Also not here to have a go at Mae Martin - from Wikipedia, which will be ally approved as they love to edit wikis
At age 14, Martin started drinking and taking drugs.[4] At 15, Martin dropped out of school to work full-time at the Second City comedy club. At 16, their parents kicked them out of the house,[20] and they stayed with comedian friends, who were in their 20s and 30s. Abusive relationships were normalised in the night-time scene: Martin says that "If you put a teenage girl in any industry like that, there's going to be people taking advantage."[4] Martin eventually went to rehabilitation.[15]
With that difficult early start, it’s not a surprise she opted out of being a woman when she could.
At age 14, Martin started drinking and taking drugs.[4] At 15, Martin dropped out of school to work full-time at the Second City comedy club. At 16, their parents kicked them out of the house,[20] and they stayed with comedian friends, who were in their 20s and 30s. Abusive relationships were normalised in the night-time scene: Martin says that "If you put a teenage girl in any industry like that, there's going to be people taking advantage."[4] Martin eventually went to rehabilitation.[15]
With that difficult early start, it’s not a surprise she opted out of being a woman when she could.
I have yet to see a trans or non-binary identified female opt for top surgery and not have significant trauma in their life.
I hate to police the thread but could we please have less of the 'top surgery' and more double mastectomy. After all that is what it is. Let's not wishy washy that reality away
I use top surgery out of laziness. Not attempting to sugar coat it at all.
I understand that but words matter so much as we are finding out to our detriment. It's just a small thing but equally there are a lot of people that will use the argument that respecting someone's pronouns is a small thing too and we know it isn't.
I’m not as eloquent as others on here but I got memes so
I completely agree with this, although of course everyone can call it what they wish. My mum has breast cancer so I'm possibly a bit touchy over the term "top surgery", mostly because it tends to be used only for the mutilation of healthy women. Women who have a life-threatening illness clearly don't deserve the same consideration when hearing that their only chance of living longer involves brutal surgery. Then, it's all "double masectomy" or "radical surgery", no sugar-coating for them!
It's the same with aspects of the MtF surgery...you rarely hear it referred to as "castration", do you?
Believe me, I use “double mastectomy” often, just to make a point. Look through my previous posts and you’ll see it. On this one occasion I couldn’t be arsed to type the extra letters. You don’t need to school me on this one I promise
Very much this. Flat Earthers vibes, people making stuff fit their beliefs.
Whenever I hear the term 'non binary' I immediately do an inward eye roll and assign the person as a self-absorbed, deluded fool.
I do genuinely appreciate you taking the time to write a long reply and provide information on your opinion.
I can see that you feel passionately about this and I do completely agree that being female is real and meaningful. I absolutely agree that persistent female oppression is something that needs to be fought against and I do stand for and by women.
This wasn't you but someone else looked through my previous posts and mentioned comments I'd made about women and their bodies. I'd like to clarify that the context of this is a woman glorifying an eating disorder to impressionable followers, which I believe is dangerous and wrong.
Anyway, back to the point. While I do agree with some of the things you said and appreciate you putting them across eloquently, everyone here can see there is a lot I don't agree with. I personally don't think protecting women and their rights should involve negativity towards orders who aren't female.
Someone said 'take your own advice luv' but these sorts of things do concern me because they are prevalent in society today and, really, I want to be an ally to everyone, including fellow women, but I guess it aways will clash with someone's opinions.
I definitely didn't approach this in the right way - you're right I did jump on a post with no context and I also was unnecessary hostile. I apologise for that. It's hard to see things being expressed that don't align with my own beliefs and morals but such is life!
I do think as others have said this isn't the thread for me. I think everyone here is united in their beliefs, many of which contradict mine and I think are strongly held beliefs that can't be shifted. It doesn't feel great to be laughed at for expressing my thoughts but maybe I brought that on myself by the way I expressed myself.
No shooting involved. I think it was more because we have an interloper on here currently that I pulled it up. I know you are a frequent commentator on these threads.Believe me, I use “double mastectomy” often, just to make a point. Look through my previous posts and you’ll see it. On this one occasion I couldn’t be arsed to type the extra letters. You don’t need to school me on this one I promise
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Honestly do you know how many people have jumped on this thread with the same views as you and then gone back through a few threads and had the lightbulb go on. Even those of us who were never quite onboard but reasonably tolerant have hardened our stance as it has become increasingly obvious how bleeping detrimental this movement is to Women.
This affects me because I am terrified that soon as a biologically born female (not bleeping CIS), I will soon have no rights at all and will not be able to use the word woman without being arrested. You think I'm being OTT? Open your eyes - this is something we all need to fight for - and hard. Graham Linehan is problematic in some ways but I admire him 100% for having the balls to see this tit for what it is early on and not backing down.
Whenever I hear the term "non-binary" it reminds me of my school days and math classes! As for those who apply the term to themselves...nope, no recognition for such nonsense from me.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply, and rest assured that the tone of my response was only responding in kind to your own and not meant as an attack on you either. I am here yes, to gossip, but also to debate freely one of the few places that allows it, and to listen to people I don’t always agree with.
Please believe me that I mean absolutely no ill-will to anyone living as they please, far from it. I believe very fiercely that anyone can dress, act, present, call themselves whatever they want. I’m all for it. They can live and love as they wish and I’m extremely proud to live in a country that allows this. I would strongly stand up for anyone who was attacked for being “different.”
My minor griping about Mae not rushing to clear up any confusion Mae isn’t actually a les aside, my issue with isn’t with any individual person so much as the idea that we all have to adopt an ideology that I and others personally do not agree with, in order to refer to others. In pretty much no other field I am required to actively agree with another person’s subjective view of themselves, and the world, if I don’t want to. Mae is perfectly within her rights to consider herself not female if that’s important to her, but I don’t have to do this. I wouldn’t go and yell in Mae’s face about that, but I would discuss it in this forum.
If it was just using the right pronoun, that would be one ask. But pronouns are part of a bigger system. “It’s just asking to be called X or Y, what is the problem?” The problem is this can be just the first step. It then becomes a request (framed as a demand) that we observe more than just politeness, and so observe a person’s identity in law, in sports, in male / female spaces, and begin to promote the idea to children that we all have a “gender identity” (this is no more true than we all have a religion).
To be clear, anyone is free to believe what they want, do what they want, believe what they want about themselves — simply not to impose it on me. And when it has practical, real-world impact, some of us will ask questions. I’m allowed to ask whether, for example, recommending to others microdosing with testosterone (as Mae has done) is a good thing to do. I’m also allowed to wonder if the recent promotion of elective top surgery / double mastectomy is really that empowering. If this is seen as negativity… well, I won’t single Mae out again I don’t think but simply I don’t think children and young women need to get these messages all the time that feeling different means medical intervention. If “non-binary” as an identity was just a pronouns request, I would find it daft but I wouldn’t feel so strongly that it’s actually a little dangerous. It’s not just a pronouns request.
Sorry but I can’t take anyone seriously who uses “they/them” pronouns it’s just ridiculous hahahah
Mae Martin was REALLY BORING on taskmaster and that’s all I have to say on the matter.
I find taskmaster really boring as a programme but that is probably quite a controversial opinion in itself as I know people love it (different strokes and all that!).
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