Gender Discussion #46

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My view of this abortion case is it's a complex, grey area. My personal feelings is that abortion at that late a stage should be for health and life concerns for the mother and baby. And to try and abort a near fully grown baby at home with pills is very dangerous.

I don't think I can comment further without more knowledge of the woman's situation.
 
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To play devil's advocate, though, there are women (again, the absolute outliers) who do deliberately harm or kill their children. Not necessarily because of dire circumstances, and sometimes dire circumstances just aren't a reasonable mitigation to the level of harm caused. Reading between the lines of the Judge's determination, the woman had been contemplating termination for many months and knew how far along she was. She lied to the paramedics and sent them away while she was in labour; they left not knowing she was pregnant and there would have been a chance to save the baby. I'm also left wondering who was there when all of this was happening: were her children witness to this? I am painfully aware of the emotional turmoil involved in making that decision and I fully support any woman's choice to end a pregnancy, but there has to be a cut-off point. Terminating a pregnancy at 8-months isn't really any different to the very sad cases of women who kill their newborns and we rightly expect them to receive a custodial sentence, irrespective of the trauma they may have experienced.

I think that telemedicine for abortions, irrespective of this situation, is a good thing and improves access to abortions for women who are vulnerable, frightened off by the anti-choice loons protesting outside gynae clinics, experiencing DV or HBV for example. I don't think we can say that the NHS was negligent when it's been proven that this woman made a deliberate choice to use drugs outwith the medical guidance (she told them she was 7 weeks along). That would be the same as the NHS being negligent every time someone uses prescribed drugs to kill themselves or Asda being sued for selling alcohol to people with alcohol dependence. At some point, personal responsibility needs to kick in.
 
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It's a shame this case has received so much publicity because you can be sure the media won't give the case the due care it needs. I understand she was jailed partly because of the exacerbating circumstances (lies and the lack of guilty plea) but I know some will jump on this to say abortion should be more tightly controlled and some women will fear seeking an abortion when it's the right step for them.
 
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Too often women commit horrific acts due to trauma and terrible conditions in their lives. Women who hurt their children may be under appalling pressures, untreated depression and unsupported for the magnitude of their caring responsibilities especially if they have kids with additional needs. In those cases the sentancing always looks harsh, but I don’t think 14 months custodial and the rest on licence is overly harsh. And the judge said if she has pleaded guilty from the start she would not be in prison because it was a horrible case. I feel terribly sorry for all of her children. It’s a tragedy.

And the medical people should have been told off, interfering in the justice system is not their place. Lobby the politicians who made the law.

And yes, Covid led to a great deal of medical neglect for pregnancies and many people died of other things who shouldn’t have because of the cancellation of scans.
 
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Everyone is allowed an opinion and I believe that it is fully possible to be pro choice and support women’s rights to an abortion BUT see that aborting a 30+ week old foetus illegally is a completely different situation.

Personally I believe in safe, legal abortion available to all women. Do I support what this woman did? No. Do I support what the company involved did? No.

Does that make me a bad woman? Probably.
I don't think it does. I agree with you totally.

I can be a feminist and acknowledge that women as a sex class are oppressed and disadvantaged while also acknowledging that individual women are not beyond reproach even in issues that pertain solely to female oppression.

I read some of the court documents from that case. There are some mitigating circumstances (although not as dramatic as I expected) and clearly the woman involved feels a degree of guilt or remorse but considering she has other children and she was over 7 months pregnant at the time and she lives in a country where safe, legal abortion is available (albeit in more difficult circumstances due to the pandemic)... women are not perpetual, incapable victims and aren't above the law, which in the case of abortion I would argue is fair.

At this point the debate isn't even about "women's bodies" since she had to give birth to this baby either way. Babies at 32 weeks have over 95% chance of survival. Morally I'm not really sure how this is different to giving birth at 32 weeks and then causing the infant's death?

Women can and do make stupid, immoral, or otherwise questionable decisions and aren't above being held accountable just because we suffer sex-based oppression.
 
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I do think abortion should be legal by default, vs being illegal by default but with a few exceptions (all of which take control away by requiring approval of multiple doctors and effectively insisting that something be found "wrong" with the mother if the baby is otherwise viable.) Still with a legal limit but that would be a much less precarious basis for reproductive rights
 
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There is a new presenter on BBCs Garden Rescue , Lee Burkhill Who goes by he him pronouns etc etc......

And who on the show yesterday, as well as doing heavy plant lifting etc,, was presenting a piece about a decorative blackboard for a toddler, and a herb planter for the bbq. What masculine activities for the trans man!
And of course he is gay with a husband!

My head hurts!!!
Im sure he is a great garden designer, as are so many other women, and men, but... despite the shaved haircut and no make up, he still looks female to me!
 
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Am not quite sure what the hell this is advertising on the JD sports website? Is it meant for men or women?
It’s confusing because I guess it’s for everyone but these already exist. This isn’t anything new or exciting.

There are plenty of swim suit options about in all shapes and sizes which are available to anyone. The only difference here is it’s advertised as LGBT… to try and make the brand appear more inclusive and gain points.
 
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There is a new presenter on BBCs Garden Rescue , Lee Burkhill Who goes by he him pronouns etc etc......

And who on the show yesterday, as well as doing heavy plant lifting etc,, was presenting a piece about a decorative blackboard for a toddler, and a herb planter for the bbq. What masculine activities for the trans man!
And of course he is gay with a husband!

My head hurts!!!
Im sure he is a great garden designer, as are so many other women, and men, but... despite the shaved haircut and no make up, he still looks female to me!
So heterosexual basically. These people are so narcissitic, what are they going to do when they are not in "fashion" anymore?
 
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It’s confusing because I guess it’s for everyone but these already exist. This isn’t anything new or exciting.

There are plenty of swim suit options about in all shapes and sizes which are available to anyone. The only difference here is it’s advertised as LGBT… to try and make the brand appear more inclusive and gain points.
You say they already exist but, as a tall woman who really struggles to get swimming costumes that are long enough I’m actually quite interested. I currently don’t feel at all catered for by most brands.
 
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I though there was something odd about him and his voice. Explains it all then
It doesn't explain anything because he is literally just a man, no trans involved. There are pictures on his instagram of him as a small boy, very much a boy, and in the 80s so hardly a "oh but they said they were trans at 4" type of small boy.

Why can't gardeners, male or female, present sections about herb planters or blackboards? Surely these are the gender stereotypes we're actually trying to bust, the ones that cause people to think they're trans because they don't "fit" the stereotype their gender is assigned, when really they're just a tomboy or likewise?
 
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Don't know if this has been discussed here already.

UN investigator Reem Alsalem told DailyMail.com 'screaming trans activists' were a worrying and 'increasing trend' that must be tackled.

 
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Don't know if this has been discussed here already.

UN investigator Reem Alsalem told DailyMail.com 'screaming trans activists' were a worrying and 'increasing trend' that must be tackled.

I'm glad this is getting more attention now but there's still a long way to go. It's still too easy for people to dismiss this with the 'Daily Fail being right wing'.

I've just noticed something odd on my work computer. There's a news feed that comes through with various stories of the day but any articles that have anything to do with trans issues like the Australian tennis story have the comments section closed. It's as if they know people will post negatively in the comments so we're not allowed to.
 
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Don't know if this has been discussed here already.

UN investigator Reem Alsalem told DailyMail.com 'screaming trans activists' were a worrying and 'increasing trend' that must be tackled.

They basically sound like terrorists!
 
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This is quite depressing and shows just how little our MPs know about the subject and how in thrall many of them are.

 
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It doesn't explain anything because he is literally just a man, no trans involved. There are pictures on his instagram of him as a small boy, very much a boy, and in the 80s so hardly a "oh but they said they were trans at 4" type of small boy.

Why can't gardeners, male or female, present sections about herb planters or blackboards? Surely these are the gender stereotypes we're actually trying to bust, the ones that cause people to think they're trans because they don't "fit" the stereotype their gender is assigned, when really they're just a tomboy or likewise?
I think he's just a camp gay man. The rumours about him have come from "sources" that can't be found, which seem to take his male partner as proof of his transness.

Whatever his status, as he's not making a nuisance of himself on trans issues or elbowing his way into spaces or sports teams, I think he needs to be left alone.

It's the same as the trans lobby going after the French singer Amanda Lear. Lear may well be trans, but has claimed not to be. She is also very private now and makes no political statements about anything. The Lear thing makes me quite angry as it seems to be okay to deadname and out people if you're a prominent trans figure. Anyone else would be cancelled for ever for doing that.
 
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