Gender Discussion #43

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Not relevant to the current discussion but I need to vent. I was looking at local groups on meetup the other day and all the women-only ones said they were open to "everybody who identifies as a woman". In most of the groups I could easily see men with lipstick on in the members list, even in the tiny thumbnail. I complained to my partner and she said "well to be fair they're not allowed to say 'cis women only' are they?" Which is true but therein lies the rage!! Why the duck not!! And why should it even need to be said?! As a white woman I don't try to attend groups for Black women even if they don't explicitly say "no white women allowed" because I'm not an idiot, and if I were to do blackface, I would fully expect not to be accepted, never mind being welcomed. In fact I know some white-passing people don't feel at home in Black spaces because they don't "look the part" at first glance. So why do women have to accept men who have ~the spirit of a woman~ or whatever jargon they come out with? (Rhetorical question, I know exactly why)

And another thing, why do TRAs insist on saying that GC women "don't speak for all of us"? I think that fact is well established. TRAs are the ones claiming to speak for all of *us* by insisting that TWAW and that TW pose no danger and should be allowed in all single sex spaces.
 
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Showing teens normal bodies = great.

This show is bleeping appalling though.

A contestant stands in front of a line up of headless naked bodies and is asked to comment on which "vagina" they find attractive (never mind the fact they're looking at a vulva FFS) and you'll invariably see that hair isn't allowed, and nor is visible labia. I don't think it normalises anything other than the same old ridicule of bodies that don't fit a pornified ideal.
Is that not Naked Attraction you’re talking about ?
The OP posted an advert for Naked Education ?
 
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Is that not Naked Attraction you’re talking about ?
The OP posted an advert for Naked Education ?
Oh tit, well that’ll teach me for not clicking through to Helen Joyce’s actual tweet! I saw Anna Richardson in the photo and assumed we were talking about Naked Attraction 😅

Is Anna Richardson the Channel 4 nudity presenter now or something?
 
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I’m so on the fence about this. On one hand I think teens should be learning that not every body has a body like a porn star/pop star/actor. On the other I’m not sure you have to have actual naked bodies to demonstrate body positivity.
Isnt the logic about normalising a wide variety of different bodies and body shapes? To provide a contrast to the porn star bodies that children unfortunately tend to see online?

Im not sure I like the idea of doing a TV show about this, you could easily take a child to an art gallery to view some of the art there? And see a wide variety of naked or semi naked bodies?

Or even, take a child to a swimming pool or beach, you dont need anyone to be completely naked, to can get the idea of different body types!
 
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There is a couple I know that have a child born a boy who says that at 6 years old the child was claiming they are actually a girl. They didn't think it was just a phase and let the kid start wearing dresses, growing their hair out, etc. The kid must be about 11 now and they still dress like a girl, I've no idea if they've gone through medical procedures. But I do wonder if the child would really still dress this way if their parents hadn't allowed it. Kids' minds are like sponges and they allowed it to happen so young that this kid won't know much else...
I don't think letting a child wear whatever they want is a problem, there is nothing genetic that means boys need to wear trousers and girls skirts
 
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Isnt the logic about normalising a wide variety of different bodies and body shapes? To provide a contrast to the porn star bodies that children unfortunately tend to see online?

Im not sure I like the idea of doing a TV show about this, you could easily take a child to an art gallery to view some of the art there? And see a wide variety of naked or semi naked bodies?

Or even, take a child to a swimming pool or beach, you dont need anyone to be completely naked, to can get the idea of different body types!
I think that’s what I said in a roundabout way.
 
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From the Grauniad


They claim that the 100s of years old play and is about queer and trans people. No it’s not !
It’s about two girls who disguise themselves as boys for a good reason. They then fall in love because each one doesn’t know the other is female. Eventually one of them is turned in to a boy by magic, not because she’s trans.

Stop trying to pass it off as a queer/trans play !!
 
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Normalizing strange adults being naked in front of kids is grooming. Pictures are different, everyone knows that.
I think one of the points in that segment of the show is to show the teens that these are 5 ordinary people with (for example) varying amounts of pubic hair. The teens then see that actually these people are just regular folk who are happy to answer questions about their pubic hair.

I don’t think looking at pictures is the same as pictures don’t have thoughts, opinions and knowledge to share.

I know a lot of people are on the fence about this show, but the teens presumably are happy to be there and have parental consent and the adults are stood at a distance mostly robed and then disrobe for a small amount of time. There’s nobody wanking at the kids or anything like that.

This segment is in a closed room. The only bit of the show so far I found a bit off was the naked bike ride whereby they were in a town and people going about their daily business would have had no choice whether any kids with them saw anything. But then if that was allowed then presumably it’s something that happens regardless of the show which seems strange considering you can’t normally be naked in a public place.
 
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Oh tit, well that’ll teach me for not clicking through to Helen Joyce’s actual tweet! I saw Anna Richardson in the photo and assumed we were talking about Naked Attraction 😅

Is Anna Richardson the Channel 4 nudity presenter now or something?
As my mum says “she always does these dirty programmes” 😂
 
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I have so many issues with naked education. But 2 points I'll ask if it was truly about children learning that bodies are different..., why is the presenter the same adult who presents the show naked attraction, why not a teacher/doctor?
Why brand the show as naked educator (and with the same host) and create the link with the adult show "naked attraction"?
 
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If people weren’t literally sat in their yards on games and TikTok/IG for hours upon hours and actually went outside and did things, they wouldn’t need a complete stranger getting their bits out infront of them to know what a real body looks like for bleeping hells sake.
Instead of making some pervert programme get the teenagers off social fuckin media and games consoles cos it seems to just be indoctrinating kids from all directions
 
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Apparently Selfridges are hosting an art installation that comments on "transphobic bathroom panics" - maybe somewhere to visit on the way to speakers corner?

GRAY WIELEBINSKI


Exhibition, 2023

Exhibition spotlights the public restroom as a monument, sanctuary and secret. By evoking the Victorian Gothic style of architecture, the piece references feminist campaigns that equalised access to public sanitation facilities in the 20th century and led to Selfridges being the first department store to open women’s public toilets. It also nods to the connotation of these spaces as cruising sites and today’s conflicting visions of the purpose of public bathrooms, which often collide in transphobic “bathroom panics.” The two vitrines feature walkways divided by applique vanity screens that invite viewers to enter inside the window displays and reflect on the paradox of being alone in public.

Commissioned by Selfridges for the 2023 Art Block. Programmed and produced by Bold Tendencies. On display 5 January – 1 October 2023 at Selfridges, Duke Street, London.

(Gray is a TIF).
 
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