Gender Discussion #35

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What really is the difference between Caitlyn and Dylan? That article says that Caitlyn has had “reassignment surgery” but I’m pretty sure I also read that Caitlyn has kept the bits. So I don’t see how Caitlyn can criticise Dylan? They’re both doing exactly the same thing. Is Caitlyn threatened that another US trans woman is more famous?
 
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Ash Regan MSP has resigned from the Scottish government because of the GRA bill. Nice to see someone in the SNP has a spine and cares about women.

She can be a snarky piece of work that Nicola.

Collective responsibility in this case means ‘we all go down together’
She's a nasty wee creature. Would step on anyone to get what she wants. Scottish women are the collateral damage.
 
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I saw a video of Helen Joyce saying that those who are backing TRAs are basically looking for a new ‘injustice’ to get behind… used to be gay rights etc but now that’s sorted (legally at least) so they have to find something else to campaign for. If that’s young girls getting mastectomies, so be it 🙃 As someone said upthread, you say TWAW or whatever slogan is popular and you’re automatically one of ‘the good guys’. Au revoir critical thinking, was nice knowing you.
 
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I saw a video of Helen Joyce saying that those who are backing TRAs are basically looking for a new ‘injustice’ to get behind… used to be gay rights etc but now that’s sorted (legally at least) so they have to find something else to campaign for. If that’s young girls getting mastectomies, so be it 🙃 As someone said upthread, you say TWAW or whatever slogan is popular and you’re automatically one of ‘the good guys’. Au revoir critical thinking, was nice knowing you.
FFS - there are still real injustices in the world and in the UK.

Social mobility for the working classes and access to education and jobs / many industries impossible to get into if not connected

Black maternal mortality and poorer outcomes across the NHS

poor children going hungry in the holidays

Institutional racism and misogyny in the Police

rise of anti semitism



I love Yul Bruner - please forgive problematic musical
 
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What really is the difference between Caitlyn and Dylan? That article says that Caitlyn has had “reassignment surgery” but I’m pretty sure I also read that Caitlyn has kept the bits. So I don’t see how Caitlyn can criticise Dylan? They’re both doing exactly the same thing. Is Caitlyn threatened that another US trans woman is more famous?
Caitlyn - late transitioner - married to a woman - fathered children = usually one thing as the primary cause that makes little sense under the claim they always knew - but waited 40 years or more whilst soaking up male privilege to the max.

Completely different life path to transsexuals attracted to men. Who nearly always transition at the earliest opportunity past 18.

Not arguing one is more real than the other. Just that they are clearly caused by two different things.

Why the word transsexual is only now used by the few who are it and do not wish to be associated with the zillion different gender identities which are riddled with stereotypes and male heterosexuality imposing itself visibly onto the world.

Transsexuals hate stereotypes every bit as much as you mostly do. It is parody. Not reality.

As for Dylan the jury is out with me as to whether they are more like Dylan the dopey rabbit on The Magic Roundabout or Dylan as in Bob - a man singing made up songs what he wrote.
 
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I think Dylan was a gender non conforming, weird looking kid, possibly gay with a homophobic background who was badly bullied and went into theatre but has trouble forming relationships. They did the first video as a parody and it has gone too far and made too much money and yes, addicted to the attention.
 
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Bruce/Caitlin Jenner really confuses me. He clearly didn't mind shagging women very much, as he managed to father 6 children.
 
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Bisexuals exist - but I don’t recall Caitlyn having a male companion, but I don’t keep up with them - chuckle

I think for Caitlyn it’s what happens when a fetish meets a great deal of money and more acceptance in the world. As a public person and a gold medal winner it would have been impossible for many years for Bruce to be open about such things.
 
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Bisexuals exist - but I don’t recall Caitlyn having a male companion, but I don’t keep up with them - chuckle

I think for Caitlyn it’s what happens when a fetish meets a great deal of money and more acceptance in the world. As a public person and a gold medal winner it would have been impossible for many years for Bruce to be open about such things.
I actually heard of one of his stepdaughters (KIM) catching him crossing-dressing before he came out and it scared her so much that she ran out of the house to stay with the sister lol.
 
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Ash Regan resigns rather than vote in favour of the Gender Recognition Reform Bill.

View attachment 1682578
She was one of 15 signatories to a letter in 2019 asking them to slow down then with the proposed GRA bill so Nicola knows full well it had been raised. She cannot handle criticism and simply goes on the offensive. The way she speaks to the press in Scotland when faced with a difficult question is the same way Trump used to be.
 
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Bisexuals exist - but I don’t recall Caitlyn having a male companion, but I don’t keep up with them - chuckle

I think for Caitlyn it’s what happens when a fetish meets a great deal of money and more acceptance in the world. As a public person and a gold medal winner it would have been impossible for many years for Bruce to be open about such things.
I will say one thing for Caitlyn Jenner...all of her sporting medals were won as a man, competing against other men and I believe she is quite vocal about the unfairness of men competing in women's sports.
 
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Started a thread on Dylan in case anyone is interested…
 
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I think Dylan was a gender non conforming, weird looking kid, possibly gay with a homophobic background who was badly bullied and went into theatre but has trouble forming relationships. They did the first video as a parody and it has gone too far and made too much money and yes, addicted to the attention.
That would make good sense.

Though I guess not believing it is all true is bigotry or treason I suppose in my case.

One thing is clear the use of the word girl is inappropriate in someone in their md 20s let alone in Izzard who is over twce that is for me a huge red flag of an identity in their heads that has not moved with tine but stalled in the past when it first formed.

Regardless of views on whether it is simply a man neither would be talking about day 79 of boyhood or having boy days if it was their perception of slf at their current age.

I think we see it in AGP a lot because they created this in thei fantasy as a teenage boy and on transition they are metally living off that fantasy from long before.
 
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I wonder if Caitlin Jenner would be quite so against the unfairness of men competing in women’s sport if he were still of an age where he could be competing himself though? Or if he’d be like ‘Laurel’ Hubbard, past it, but still able to beat women.
I’m interested in seeing how that Dylan Mulvaney thread goes, but a bit apprehensive at the same time. He seems like a magnet for handmaidens and the ‘be kind’ brigade.
 
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Bisexuals exist - but I don’t recall Caitlyn having a male companion, but I don’t keep up with them - chuckle

I think for Caitlyn it’s what happens when a fetish meets a great deal of money and more acceptance in the world. As a public person and a gold medal winner it would have been impossible for many years for Bruce to be open about such things.

I tend to agree. I watched a few episodes of the series about their transition where they went on a road trip wth others. It came over as them being a little lost and trying to get up with the pace of what they were saying and doing and Caitlyn came across as quite a domineering presence that I read as male in orientatation. Even v some of the other trans people.

But I guess getting rid of that is a lot harder when you have lived decades accepted as a man - especially a successful one used to controlling others and a big lifestyle.

Transitioning young as I did with all my life after school post transition I noticed the dfference in how I was being treated in meetings where often I was spoken over as if not there by men - even young men my age - and then occasionally called in to a comversation to give a comment as if it was an allowance I was being given to speak up under their control.

There are really interesting things like that you get to see from both sides that are rather subtle and come as a surprise about the dfference between how men and women - as perceived - are treated and I think probably only happen with young transitioners outside the public eye so not perceived much in a trans climate as of today which is so in your face. These days with social media it makes trans visble not invisible as it was when I was young.

We had the ability to disappear into normal life which was all we wanted and mostly were not then treated as if we were trans in a way I think will not be occurring today.
 
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Started a thread on Dylan in case anyone is interested…
Omg, he’s finally! Thanks for this!
 
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I wonder if Caitlin Jenner would be quite so against the unfairness of men competing in women’s sport if he were still of an age where he could be competing himself though? Or if he’d be like ‘Laurel’ Hubbard, past it, but still able to beat women.
I’m interested in seeing how that Dylan Mulvaney thread goes, but a bit apprehensive at the same time. He seems like a magnet for handmaidens and the ‘be kind’ brigade.
I think that is probably true. But the very fact that they put sport ahead of their supposed life long desire to transtion answers that question for me.

If you prioritise winning a medal over such a major change to your life that you claim to have had since you are little then sport obviously was more important than securing your identity.

Which to me makes that identity something I would not regard as overwhelming now if it wasn't when they were younger.

The transsexuals I know all transitioned young as nothing else mattered more and it was seen as the only way to get a stable future.

If marrying a woman as a man, fathering children and winning sports are all more important for decades then I am deepy suspicious of the argument that it suddenly changes around 50. As we see in so many cases.

By far the best explanation in most cases I see out there for this is that AGP changes from a manageable condition as male sex hormones fade in mid to late 40s. And the overwhelming desire of childhood when they were jacking off in clothes nicked from somewere or borrowed from their sister without her knowing in front of a mirror becomes 'who they are' and they rewrite history in their head to having fought their true self for decades but cannot any longer. When it is the need to quench that thirst that now needs a much higher level of affirmation.

Why we see these 50 year old 'girls' desperate to be validated and will be angered by anyone calling them he or shattering the illusion on which their self is now running. I am pretty sure they know deep down the illusion they are creating. is not real. And the over compensation comes from needing others to talk them into beleving that it is. Probably why there is so much need to try to redefine words and to claim they are now lesbian as they will know being married to a woman in a hetetosexual relationship - as it very clearly was for decades - kind of shatters the illusion they were never a man. But they could have been a lesbian as that still fits the fantasy of being a straight man who is 'really' a woman.
 
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I tend to agree. I watched a few episodes of the series about their transition where they went on a road trip wth others. It came over as them being a little lost and trying to get up with the pace of what they were saying and doing and Caitlyn came across as quite a domineering presence that I read as male in orientatation. Even v some of the other trans people.

But I guess getting rid of that is a lot harder when you have lived decades accepted as a man - especially a successful one used to controlling others and a big lifestyle.

Transitioning young as I did with all my life after school post transition I noticed the dfference in how I was being treated in meetings where often I was spoken over as if not there by men - even young men my age - and then occasionally called in to a comversation to give a comment as if it was an allowance I was being given to speak up under their control.

There are really interesting things like that you get to see from both sides that are rather subtle and come as a surprise about the dfference between how men and women - as perceived - are treated and I think probably only happen with young transitioners outside the public eye so not perceived much in a trans climate as of today which is so in your face. These days with social media it makes trans visble not invisible as it was when I was young.

We had the ability to disappear into normal life which was all we wanted and mostly were not then treated as if we were trans in a way I think will not be occurring today.
I remember watching that road trip programme too!
They were all in a tour bus, with glamorous hair.
I need to watch this again with fresh eyes.

@Jayceedove it's really interesting to read about how you were treated differently in meetings.
 
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