Gender Discussion #32

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re the job app demographic survey:

they do it to try and recruit more inclusively and variedly, ie to hire people from groups that are underrepresented in the company which generally speaking is a good thing IMO. but they often duck it up with gender* and sex as it looks like they might have in Venus' case. the worst thing is when they don't include sex as a category at all, or don't distinguish between' '"cis"/biological woman/man' and 'trans woman/man' (often where there's a 'gender identity' box). I unfortunately think this distinction is necessary now that the trans stuff is so mainstream for the reasons below (bearing in mind the resistance to 'sex' as a standalone category, i dont think its inclusion alone would solve this problem unfortunately)
100% agree, when I was putting my gender and the options were Male, Female and NB and then for gender identity it said Male, Female, intersex (????) Transsexual, transgender and NB.
It’s so confusing because I see TRA on Twitter say: Gender = man and woman
and Sex= male and female.
Then this job application says intersex is a gender identity???💀 (when a lot of TRA aren’t even clear what intersex actually is, I’ve seen some class women with PCOS as intersex) ugh whatever - I sent the application off anyway. 🙄🙄
 
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And you’re right on everything! As a member of gen Z it’s hard to find people my age who have GC views as a lot of young people have been Brainwashed while others are too afraid to speak out.
I had a teacher in high school who told us there is hardly a difference between men and women and I also had a female friend who was trans identified who first started off as a lesbian tomboy before going full on boy.💀 Ha- I even had a friend who was explaining to me that a vagina is just a inside out penis and that they are the same thing.
All these dumb arguments you see with woke gen z is what I was hearing 24/7 since high school.
Made me wish I was a high schooler in the 90s not in the 2010s because atleast I wouldn’t be exposed to all madness as for other young kids.
As if Labour aren't already unelectable (I say this as a lifelong Labour voter).

Why are they so scared of women organising without them? We can literally have nothing of our own. Between calling the likes of Women's Place transphobic and pushing for self-ID, they want to eradicate female-only spaces. It's such bleeping unfettered male arrogance.
I agree with you . I am 71 and have always voted Labour but I cannot vote for them with crazy ideologies such as these . What on earth has happened to the party ?
 
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I’m applying for a job aand there’s a section about “Gender identity” on the online form, I don’t believe in that crap.😭 I’m a woman because I was born FEMALE.
And why tf do they need to know my sexual orientation??
Was this a thing before when applying for something? Or this is a new thing that companies do?
It completely does my head in. On a similar note, I've just completed a review for M&S that was emailed to me. One of questions was which sex do I identify as 🙄.
I chose the 'other' option and told M&S that don't 'identify' as a woman - I AM A WOMAN, as I was born as a female, and it is offensive and meaningless for M&S to ask the question in this way.
If people just choose how they identify then what is the point in M&S asking?
 
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I feel a bit guilty now as I went to a gay bar several times at uni with mostly straight friends (it was £10 all you can drink). We did have a gay male friend with us and a friend who seems to now be in a lesbiam relationship but was probably more "curious" at that time.

Where I work I semi regularly see a trans person, mtf. They are fairly young but have the strongest walk are caked in makeup (drag style) and wear the strangest outfits. Saw them at lunch today in a red pleather jump suit a la Britney in the Oops video.
 
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100% agree, when I was putting my gender and the options were Male, Female and NB and then for gender identity it said Male, Female, intersex (????) Transsexual, transgender and NB.
It’s so confusing because I see TRA on Twitter say: Gender = man and woman
and Sex= male and female.
Then this job application says intersex is a gender identity???💀 (when a lot of TRA aren’t even clear what intersex actually is, I’ve seen some class women with PCOS as intersex) ugh whatever - I sent the application off anyway. 🙄🙄
Putting Intersex on a equal opportunities form is wrong. Intersex is a medical condition and therefore no ones business.
 
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In the UK i believe it may be illegal to collect data that isn’t about one of the protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. It’s thought to be a breach of GDPR. See these guys for a better explanation, but basically they are allowed to ask for sex, but they can’t make gender a compulsory field in a form.


Screenshot here.
Wow, they be breaking the rules. 🤡
 
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It's easy , really
Toilets should be imaged with either a penis, or a vagina.

If you've a penis you use that one.

If you've a vagina, this one.

Cuts out all the bleeping tit they spout , and leads to no argument.

"Got a cock? This one isn't for you...

....that's yours over there."
What about when they've had it chopped off/inverted?
 
thanks for sharing, rosemarina! they have a page on it here and around (?) 300 employers ask for 'gender' instead of 'sex'. nothing is done about this of course...it appears effectively decriminalised :/ & im not surprised because this happens everywhere, from EU & UK government policy and the ICO's comms to local authorities and small-time companies.

the protected characteristic "gender reassignment" encompasses "proposing to undergo [...] a process (or part of a process)" to reassign your sex (rather than just having undergone that process already) so i suspect this causes further uncertainty, especially because the government wording is "reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex". "other attributes" and "part of a process" are pretty vague... i think the best thing employers could do would be to heavily emphasise that by "sex" they mean the sex you biologically are and that this is separate from gender reassignment, and where this data will be used to monitor/improve women's access to certain fields and roles, consider "sex" and "gender reassignment" data together in their reports and analysis.

but again, it appears almost decriminalised - even on the ICO's website, they themselves say 'gender' in place of 'sex' as the protected characteristic about a dozen times. they refer to the 'gender pay gap' a lot in other cases...in their own 'gender pay gap' report, the word 'sex' isn't mentioned at all. i assume they are referring to sex and they do say "male" and "female", but still...

gender is also mentioned as being a protected characteristic in this government document. woman's place mentions the ECHR does it too. gender critical people have been saying this for ages - you can find it all over the place and in some cases it is being proposed as a change in legislation (e.g. seemingly to the scottish government by Public Health Scotland). because of brexit, there is a much bigger risk that gender discourse in the UK will impact legislation as it won't have to go through the EU. it also looks like the civil service is in the process of 'harmonising' this element of data collection in censuses to include questions about gender identity, which has the potential to influence data collection legislation in general...

parliament said they had no plans to amend the equality act to include gender, though they say that further legislative drafting is subject to questions about language around sex and gender. but, the punishment for a data collection violation judged as significant is a huge fine from the ICO, and crucially they also say they will only do this if they think it is appropriate. i just dont know how or if they will enforce this law if they and government bodies use inconsistent language themselves. it seems like they don't take it that seriously in practice. sex not gender are right to be pressuring orgs to use sex, not gender, but there is a lot of inverse pressure too...i worry that if my generation and those younger overwhelmingly subscribe to gender ideology, the tides will turn as we enter government. sidenote, mermaids got fined by the ICO for a GDPR breach lol

sorry for another essay ha i just find policy really interesting. fun friday evening am i right!! 😭 🤪
 
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We’re overdue for a new thread

Hope I’ve done this right!
 
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