Gender Discussion #32

[GladiatorReady]

Time for another new thread.

In the past few days we have been discussing the #letwomenswim protest in Hampstead Heath, the #getthelout lesbian protest at Pride in Cardiff, and whether your family and friends know you are GC.

Lots of links in the wiki, and several new members - also, 374 voters on the poll in the last thread!

 

[emm]

Meant to post this in the last thread, but I hope that the Jewish Chronicle (or Muslim pubications - off the top of my head I cannot name any sorry) come out and make a statement about this, as with so many trans issues I think a lot of people who don't really know whats going on haven't throught about the rammifications for things like women from religious groups. I want to see Owen Jones and his attempt to defend this

 

[wafflesnwings]

I think it's important for those living in the UK to raise the issue of Hampstead pond with groups like the Board of Deputies, the British Council of Muslims, as well as local religious leaders and community leaders. It is extremely unfair and disgusting that the rights of women (in this case religious women) are being overlooked, in favour of a minority who have repeatedly shown that they are aggressive, intimidating and display complete disregard for the safety of women. I know, from my own experience when I was younger, that women of faith tend to be forgotten about or even mocked by others. These TRAs and TiMs taking pleasure in pushing them (and other women) out of a woman-only space angers me - it's the disrespect, the male entitlement that no amount of make-up or badly fitted clothes can disguise and the insistence that they are the victims in all of this, when they are not

 

[emm]

I think it's important for those living in the UK to raise the issue of Hampstead pond with groups like the Board of Deputies, the British Council of Muslims, as well as local religious leaders and community leaders. It is extremely unfair and disgusting that the rights of women (in this case religious women) are being overlooked, in favour of a minority who have repeatedly shown that they are aggressive, intimidating and display complete disregard for the safety of women. I know, from my own experience when I was younger, that women of faith tend to be forgotten about or even mocked by others. These TRAs and TiMs taking pleasure in pushing them (and other women) out of a woman-only space angers me - it's the disrespect, the male entitlement that no amount of make-up or badly fitted clothes can disguise and the insistence that they are the victims in all of this, when they are not

Exactly, for everything trans women claim, women such as those who were the hijab/burka etc are definitely more at risk of dsicrimination/violent attack than they are, statistics clearly show this. I had thought (hoped probably is a better word at this point) when it started to impact on this there would be more outcry...

 

[Nelly's mum]

Re discussing your GC views with others. My male partner is the same as me, he has no truck with the gender woowoo nonsense.
I have tentatively discussed my GC views and that you cannot change your sex with my mum, but she thinks it's all quite funny and harmless.
My siblings and nieces and nephews I'm not so sure about - piercings, hairdye and their BeKind# left-leaning views lead me to assume they would disagree with my TERF views. It is bound to crop up in conversation at some point and I will say what I believe, and they are entitled to their opinion.
I have to be careful in work (non-clinical NHS post) but I know some colleagues share my views.

I feel gender identity politics /TRA/TWAW is a weird cultural phase western society is going through, and it won't last forever as nothing does. It is a small minority of people who actually support this ideology.
There will always be AGP males, but eventually TIM's will lose interest when they realise no-one wants to have sex with them and they will revert to identifying as men

 

[wafflesnwings]

Exactly, for everything trans women claim, women such as those who were the hijab/burka etc are definitely more at risk of dsicrimination/violent attack than they are, statistics clearly show this. I had thought (hoped probably is a better word at this point) when it started to impact on this there would be more outcry...

Precisely. TiMs will scream about oppressed they are, and claim that they are undergoing a genocide, but not realise how safe and protected they are (many of them are from European countries and the USA). They do not have to fight for access to education like Afghan women and girls are, their dignity and right to live safely like Hazara women, nor do they experience FGM or come from communities where baby girls are aborted or disowned by their families. They cannot handle being women and cope with everything the patriarchy subjects us to.
Re religious women's reaction, I think there is a mix of quiet shock and fear from religious women - especially in my community, where my female cousins just stopped going. I can only speak from my own experience, where lots of women I know say that they feel 'safer' by staying quiet, blending in and being invisible, because of past experiences where they were either targeted or attacked for speaking up. It's something that upsets me deeply, even though I understand where they are coming from.

My best friend, siblings and cousins know my views on TiMs and being GC. Thankfully they all agree (TiMs taking women's spaces angers my dad; he always worries for me, my sister and my cousins). Like me, they stay quiet at work and in public, because they know that they can't be forthright with their opinions. They won't just be accused of being transphobic, but are also afraid of any racist backlash they may experience, which would end their careers and jeopardise their safety

 

[Deeznutslol]

I’m very open about my GC views and am happy to discuss with anyone I meet. All of my friends know my views, a few of them are in agreement with me, some of them are in disagreement with me but they’re normal people who are able to discuss the issues without having a mental breakdown, and we’ve defo had some interesting conversations.

I was chatting with my partner earlier about how some of the biggest pushers of the transgender ideology are actually the banks. It got me thinking that transgenderism is literally just another issue that has been used to divide the working class, keep us fighting amongst ourselves and distract us from things like the cost of living crisis and how fucked the economy is lol,.

 

[emm]

Precisely. TiMs will scream about oppressed they are, and claim that they are undergoing a genocide, but not realise how safe and protected they are (many of them are from European countries and the USA). They do not have to fight for access to education like Afghan women and girls are, their dignity and right to live safely like Hazara women, nor do they experience FGM or come from communities where baby girls are aborted or disowned by their families. They cannot handle being women and cope with everything the patriarchy subjects us to.
Re religious women's reaction, I think there is a mix of quiet shock and fear from religious women - especially in my community, where my female cousins just stopped going. I can only speak from my own experience, where lots of women I know say that they feel 'safer' by staying quiet, blending in and being invisible, because of past experiences where they were either targeted or attacked for speaking up. It's something that upsets me deeply, even though I understand where they are coming from.

My best friend, siblings and cousins know my views on TiMs and being GC. Thankfully they all agree (TiMs taking women's spaces angers my dad; he always worries for me, my sister and my cousins). Like me, they stay quiet at work and in public, because they know that they can't be forthright with their opinions. They won't just be accused of being transphobic, but are also afraid of any racist backlash they may experience, which would end their careers and jeopardise their safety

Exactly this, as you can probably tell I am not in one of these discrimated religious communities, but I can imagine that, as an already marginalised group, you just woudn't want to make another big open statement (and then probably be critiised, let's be honest) when you already have so much criticisim/hostility. I don't even know what the answer is at this point, but we need to basically make an effort so the "woke" side of the left has to ackowledge that they are now disadvantaging relgious women, who are exactly the people they should be defending

 

[Badirene]

My other half knows my views and he is shocked by what's happening, especially in sport as we are both involved in coaching sport as a hobby. Some family and friends know, some agree but most just don't think about it or haven't read anything about what's happening. Many people seem to think it doesn't affect them (until it does).

I letter write and contact my local politicians asking for clarification on various points of law here in Ireland, most have ignored me, some send a stock one-off reply, one male politician has replied and followed up with other government departments and sends on their replies.

I am currently in counseling for CSA and PTSD and I speak to my counselor about this, she has lots of questions and was unaware of what was happening which is worrying as she works for the HSE (our NHS in Ireland) she has now spoken to colleagues and they are very worried as the HSE are still refering people to Tavistock, even after announcement it's closing. They are concerned about Conversion Therapy Law being proposed here in Ireland as it's states "seeking to cure, change or surpress sexuality or gender identity" will be against the law, so affirmation only from therapists or risk prosecution. There will be no "watchful waiting" approach. These therapists want clarity but are scared to speak out for fear of being targeted and losing their jobs.

I am doing this mainly for my school age nieces and nephews who are growing up in this madness, I am doing it for my older female relatives who will need intimate care in hospital as they age and I am doing it for my friend who represents our country internationally in sports and deserves fairness in competition.

 

[petitspois]

My daughter made a friend recently on holiday who declared JK Rowling was transphobic and I was so proud to hear my daughter push back and defend her strongly.
That was then cancelled out when I got the annual email in work about the Stonewall diversity champion bollocks.

 

[GladiatorReady]

This was after they posted a tweet about how Terf lesbians aren't welcome at Pride.

Imagine being on the so-called right side of history and being so scared of your 'allies'.



It's actually pretty pathetic.

 

[Slothgang]

Ide be interested to hear the economic/lifestyle backgrounds of the TWAW. I am openly GC, I come from a very very working class background and the majority of my family and social circle are low income/social housing etc. We are all on the same page although I would say they aren't exactly GC but more that they call a spade a spade and if you have got a nob then you are a bloke

 

[Tea_and_Biscuits]

Ide be interested to hear the economic/lifestyle backgrounds of the TWAW. I am openly GC, I come from a very very working class background and the majority of my family and social circle are low income/social housing etc. We are all on the same page although I would say they aren't exactly GC but more that they call a spade a spade and if you have got a nob then you are a bloke

I wonder the same thing; it does tend to be young people from more middle class/comfortable backgrounds who seem so caught up with trans rights. It's easy to see nothing wrong with intact TIMs in female prisons, if it's unlikely you'll ever go to prison for instance.

 

[VC10]

This was after they posted a tweet about how Terf lesbians aren't welcome at Pride.

Imagine being on the so-called right side of history and being so scared of your 'allies'.



It's actually pretty pathetic.

It'll give them a little " frisson" inside, no doubt.
Highlight of their sad attitudes

 

[The True Venus ♀]

I was on YouTube and saw this video

I don’t like the Kardashians but Kris is clearly destroyed and hurt by her husband wanting to be a TIM. Makes me think of the all wives on Reddit who go through the same thing and having their TIM husbands say they identify as lesbian.

 

[weeweegie]

Pretty much all my friends know my stance on the whole gender woo thing and almost all are in agreement although a few had no idea at all about any of it. I have one friend I’ve mentioned in here before who has said to me she is ‘pro trans’ whatever that means but having spoken to her a bit more on the subject, she is concerned about how self ID will effect her young daughter as she gets older. And she knows some non binary girls who she admits are clearly trying to disassociate from their female bodies because of trauma or abuse rather than NB actually being a thing (because it’s not). So I’d say we agree more than disagree. It’s just more the aesthetics, she’s happy to appear to be pro trans but when you get into the ramifications for women and girls it’s a different story.

As for family, my husband took a while to fully grasp what I was talking about and thought I was exaggerating (who could blame him, it’s all nuts - pardon the pun lol). But is of the same opinion as me. It just doesn’t affect him in any way though, being a man. He hates how upset I get about it though. Other family members are the same, we are a no nonsense central Scotland family and will call out BS when we see it, whether it’s a TIM saying he’s absolutely a woman (no yer no pal) or anything else that’s clearly batshit.

 

[GladiatorReady]

Actually yes, you should be able to see delicious food and not automatically start eating it with no free will.

 

[VC10]

Pretty much all my friends know my stance on the whole gender woo thing and almost all are in agreement although a few had no idea at all about any of it. I have one friend I’ve mentioned in here before who has said to me she is ‘pro trans’ whatever that means but having spoken to her a bit more on the subject, she is concerned about how self ID will effect her young daughter as she gets older. And she knows some non binary girls who she admits are clearly trying to disassociate from their female bodies because of trauma or abuse rather than NB actually being a thing (because it’s not). So I’d say we agree more than disagree. It’s just more the aesthetics, she’s happy to appear to be pro trans but when you get into the ramifications for women and girls it’s a different story.

As for family, my husband took a while to fully grasp what I was talking about and thought I was exaggerating (who could blame him, it’s all nuts - pardon the pun lol). But is of the same opinion as me. It just doesn’t affect him in any way though, being a man. He hates how upset I get about it though. Other family members are the same, we are a no nonsense central Scotland family and will call out BS when we see it, whether it’s a TIM saying he’s absolutely a woman (no yer no pal) or anything else that’s clearly batshit.

And us. We are too old & in too much pain to fret over their feelings about absolute bullshit.

 

[The True Venus ♀]

Actually yes, you should be able to see delicious food and not automatically start eating it with no free will.

“Men will look at you” they’ll look at you anyway.

 

[DottyP]

Not sure if anyone is aware that Kiwi Farms has been down for a few days. There is a statement on the page you can access where the owner describes what has been happening. But as a general statement, he also has this to say


They have tried to justify this behavior with the logic that we "do not respond to anything except fear."
What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where fat eunuchs can groom little boys and girls into mutilating their bodies and taking drugs in secret, while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their fetishistic lifestyle, and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

They've made it clear that I and my family will be targeted for abuse and violence regardless of if I keep the site up or let it stay down. I have no reason to do anything but continue forward. duck these people.

See you soon,
Joshua Moon
<[email protected]>

The women of Mumsnet will probably be the next target, they have tried to get it shut so many times, attacking it verbally and through tech. I am guessing this place is on their radar also.

We have said so many times about searching for stuff online, everything negative is removed. I have never seen anything like it. I have never known a group with so much power and influence convince the general public how oppressed they are. Madness.