I would be OK with a post-op M to F using women's spaces as I would see little threat (that might not be true of course) but I still don't see them as women and never will. They have had testosterone in their body for years, have grown up in a patriarchal society as male and reaped those benefits. Not to downgrade women to a list of complaints and causes but how would they join in in a conversation about periods, sexism, menopause, work life balance, caring for kids alongside elderly parents, etc. They just don't have the same lived experiences as women.
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Yes - silly me! I meant to say stunning and brave. I must do better!I think you mean brave and beautiful
As someone pointed out on Twitter, are they vulnerable because they're trans or are they trans because they're vulnerable
I'm seeing pronouns on LinkedIn loads these days. People are such sheep, they updated them because LinkedIn told them to. Those people get to feel like they're all inclusive and tolerant and progressive. I think they're ignorant sheep
The problem is we live in times where everyone has to be the oppresser or the oppressed for some reason, no ones wants to be seen as the bad guy (especially when in reality most people have nothing to do with all this oppression). A cis white straight neurotypical human is the biggest oppresser in this narrative, No one wants to be that so therefore people are making their own victim narratives up, from everything in childhood now being considered a trauma, when in reality you had a great childhood, to deciding you have an undiagnosed mental illness (ADHD seems popular atm) and the biggest top Trump? Trans! You don't even need to do anything now, just decide to change your name and pronouns and boom, you are the victim, the oppressed. The white male biggest oppresser becomes the biggest victim of them all, more so than black people or women or anybody, just like that, no effort necessary, and he wins oppression top trumps.
This is so true. And the way things are going b we are making it so easy for them. Want to gain access to women’s spaces? Say you’re a woman! Then as soon as you’re out of that space you’re a man again, laughing that he gets to do that and not only is it allowed he’s celebrated for it. Genuine trans people must recognise this and be worried and pissed off too?
This is the exact same for me. I don't mind those who have medically transitioned in female spaces because I don't feel they pose much of a threat. I don't consider them women, but I don't find them risky in the way I would an 'in tact' man who self IDs.
The thing that really annoys me is as you say, groups for certain lived experiences where trans people will never have that and still want to muscle in. I actually find that somehow worse than the toilet or changing room issue, because it just stinks of arrogance and forcing themselves on us. That reddit post someone posted a while back for example where a 35 ish year old man decided he was female, then his female artist friend was holding an event for survivors of rape/assault. He wasn't invited and was yelling about transphobia. He hadn't been raped or assaulted, and he wasn't female, but was incensed with rage at not being invited. That kind of thing really boils my blood. I do wonder how many of these people were childhood weirdos, didn't have many friends, feel like they've been left out etc etc. Seems like a lot of them desperately want to feel included and part of something and the way the TRA mob is these days, you get full acceptance without even having to take any steps to medically transition. It's the perfect 'community' for people who feel socially hard done by.
I agree with this 100%.
Been thinking this morning about trans people and dementia.
Wondering if there is much studied about it. I doubt it as dementia is under researched as a whole.
But was just pondering about how dementia affects them and whether they "forget" they have transitioned etc or how they react to their mutilated bodies etc
Perhaps it is too early to tell as this new wave of TRAs are too young to be affected yet.
My dad died from dementia this time 2 years ago. And I was remembering some of the things the dementia made him forget that were fundamental parts of his personality. For example he hated Christmas and presents etc. he thought it was a massive waste of money (stemmed from his very poor childhood) but as his dementia progressed he bloody loved it! Picking out a tree, unwrapping presents, lots of fairy lights etc. That's just one example and sorry for the ramble, just thinking out loud really.
ETA I suppose the point I am trying to make is how much is genuinely dysphoria and how much is a personality trait. And therefore how much is it affected by dementia.
Wondering if there is much studied about it. I doubt it as dementia is under researched as a whole.
But was just pondering about how dementia affects them and whether they "forget" they have transitioned etc or how they react to their mutilated bodies etc
Perhaps it is too early to tell as this new wave of TRAs are too young to be affected yet.
My dad died from dementia this time 2 years ago. And I was remembering some of the things the dementia made him forget that were fundamental parts of his personality. For example he hated Christmas and presents etc. he thought it was a massive waste of money (stemmed from his very poor childhood) but as his dementia progressed he bloody loved it! Picking out a tree, unwrapping presents, lots of fairy lights etc. That's just one example and sorry for the ramble, just thinking out loud really.
ETA I suppose the point I am trying to make is how much is genuinely dysphoria and how much is a personality trait. And therefore how much is it affected by dementia.
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Yes, I also think that's what's happening. When you tell a large group of people that they are inherently evil and they don't feel evil (and most likely aren't) and then you give them the option of identifying out of it, well, it just makes sense that some people would take that option.
Being part of the white majority of people in the UK, I can see a clear shift.
I remember in the 90s/early 00s the conversation/general view switched from it being ok to be racist and homophobic (haha, it's just a joke, we are mates really) to presenting people as trophies. What I mean by that, people were really happy to have a black friend or a gay friend. It was normal for people to refer to other people as 'my gay friend' or to say stuff like 'I've started going out with this guy and he's black'. I was at uni then and I remember feeling really uneasy about all of it. A flatmate of mine had a Japanese boyfriend and told everyone how big his dick was. I confronted her about it and said I thought it was racist, because she only told us all because she assumed everyone thought he had a small penis (when in truth I had spent zero seconds thinking about that guy's penis). She said it couldn't be racist because it was a compliment.
It feels like we've now moved further along on this spectrum. First the majority (straight, white) was happy to hate people who were of a different race or had a different sexual orientation, then we needed those people in our lives to show that we were actually not hate-filled assholes and now we want to be them, so we don't have to be the oppressor. And we can't identify into a different race, so what's left? Try on asexuality for size. Perhaps become non-binary. Claim to be pansexual (even though your current and all recent relationships were heterosexual). It's fucked up.
Clapping along with every word of that post. Absolutely brilliant.
100% and you know what, if transracial was a thing that was as accepted you know many of them would jump right on that as well.
Another thought I had about groups and who is included/excluded.
There are many groups where legally no one is excluded, but by defintion it's for specific people. For example, a menopause support group. You wouldn't want young women who aren't experiencing menopause in that group. Because what would they offer? Nothing. They'd potentially disrupt or derail the conversation. If there was a menopause support group and a 20-year-old rocked up and said no, I haven't got early menopause, just hear for the chat, I think the group would be right to question her motives and ask her to leave. I don't think people would be supportive of the young woman. She would be seen as a bit of weirdo unless she could give a really good reason for wanting to be there. Now if a 50-year-old transwoman turned up, why would it be different to question why she's there? She's not experiencing menopause. But no doubt would it be seen as transphobic.
It's the double standards that get me.
There are many groups where legally no one is excluded, but by defintion it's for specific people. For example, a menopause support group. You wouldn't want young women who aren't experiencing menopause in that group. Because what would they offer? Nothing. They'd potentially disrupt or derail the conversation. If there was a menopause support group and a 20-year-old rocked up and said no, I haven't got early menopause, just hear for the chat, I think the group would be right to question her motives and ask her to leave. I don't think people would be supportive of the young woman. She would be seen as a bit of weirdo unless she could give a really good reason for wanting to be there. Now if a 50-year-old transwoman turned up, why would it be different to question why she's there? She's not experiencing menopause. But no doubt would it be seen as transphobic.
It's the double standards that get me.
Yep, totally. It is racist and offensive to pretend you are black when you’re not, I think we all can agree on that. You have not had the lived experience of a black person. So how is a fully grown man accepted as a women just because he says is? He hasn’t had the lived experience of being a woman.
Was reading some actors post on Instagram the other day talking about women’s safety and how men will never know what it feels like to be a woman (talking about fearing for our safety on a daily basis). I suddenly thought but if a man turned round and said but I feel like a woman ‘inside’ then suddenly he does?? No, he doesn’t! And won’t ever.
Most people also wouldn't want to be the person who does this, because most of us know we don't have something to offer every single group and therefore it's inappropriate for us to be there. That's something I really can't wrap my head around, in the example from Reddit - what did that 30 odd man think he could offer a group for female rape survivors? How does it not cross your mind that you don't have any role of any value whatsoever in attending a group like that? And, the part that makes me suspicious - given he can't relate to those experiences, what is it, exactly, that he is getting out of attending that group? That's where it gets sinister for me. Transwomen wanting to go to groups for rape survivors, mothers, breastfeeders, whatever...it's creepy.
Exactly, I've seen Trans Widows getting hate online for daring to talk to each other about their experiences, mostly being the ones to sudden ly have their lives and relationships affected by a partner "trans-ing". Noone other than trans widows have the right to be in that discussion group yet TRAs insist on trying to break up the chat and discredit it. It's so egotistical to sit there and intrude.
I wouldn't insist on turning up to AA meetings and say "well I don't drink, so ..."
Or I wouldn't apply for a grant for black owned business start up initiatives
Or I wouldn't turn up uninvited to a childrens birthday party
Etc
I think a lot of this is just modern malaise - as a population we are too self absorbed and naval gazing. Sometimes, I think we'd be better off down the pits for a year after school to give us all some perspective on life.
There’s a lot in this. Although we still have food poverty, the overwhelming majority of the population have a level of comfort. Food, clothing, shelter, electricity, internet.
So in the absence of a fight for basic survival, humanity dreams up new problems, new dragons to slay.
I think if it’s specifically a menopause ‘support’ group it would be odd for a person not going through it to want to be there. It’s a very personal experience and not one everyone would be comfortable chatting about with people who aren’t going through it. Maybe a trans man who still has their female organs might still go through menopause so I would imagine would be welcome, as long as they realise that the women there won’t change their language to erase the word ‘woman’ when talking about it.
What my work have been doing are menopause awareness sessions because we have a high number of women of menopausal age on our staff. Men are encouraged to go as it’s to educate those not going through it what it’s like. Trans people could go to that if they really wanted to.
I can easily imagine a situation in which trans women would muscle in on a menopause group claiming that because they had never had periods they could somehow understand
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