Gender Discussion #15

[House of Tea]

I wonder if females in NZ feel hated by the system? All the more shocking because they have a female PM.

 

[emm]

It is such an insult.

how long until the same starts happening in all walks of life, acting awards, literary awards etc. And when inevitably a trans category is also made trans people will be able to complete in 2 categories for everything while women, as usual, are disadvantaged

 

[Platformcrocs]

Some interesting stats here on the number of trans people murdered in the UK last year. There were 11 trans people murdered in the UK last year, and they were all trans identified males. All were killed by a man.

TRANS MURDER MONITORING

Sources on Trans Murder, of and by, in the UK.

gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com

Remember guys (sorry, people with a cervix), they're the most marginalised group and at huge risk of male violence

“Labour councillors such as Debra Coupar (Labour) and Judith Blake (Labour), voted for it to continue. The Labour Councillors have been sold the trope that “sex work is work” and despite all the abuse and associated crime and now evidence that school girls are being targeted by paedophiles, they don’t and haven’t voted for the exit strategy. Leeds City Council and West Yorkshire Police are out of their depth.”

I mean really. Are people actually this stupid. Women are killed, drug addiction is rife, underage girls are now being targeted and that still isn’t enough for some people to want to put an end to this madness. What the hell is wrong with people? What is wrong with Labour?

It's increasingly clear that Labour don't give a hoot about women. Whether that's Keir Starmer's comments (or actually, lack of) this week, the shadow cabinet sticking the boot into Rosie Duffield and trotting out the line that men have cervixes too, key figures like Barry Gardiner comparing single sex spaces to South African apartheid (yes, really), right down to local councillors allowing women to be trafficked and abused on their doorstep...the whole party is rotten.

 

[Vanelope]

My fiancé has waist length hair so I guess he's a woman. I have a bob ... am I non-binary? or do I just about count as a woman because it's a long-ish bob (shoulder length?) Decisions, decisions

Old but relevant:

It must be SO difficult

Whofuckingcares.com

it seems to be making simple things very fraught with meaning

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

Whofuckingcares.com

it seems to be making simple things very fraught with meaning

I really think that for some people, gender presentation is basically their only hobby (if it can be called that.) It's why on the old GC Reddit they said "gender fandom"

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Short hair on women has been a thing for decades and decades, not just since the 90s.

 

[weeweegie]

I really think that for some people, gender presentation is basically their only hobby (if it can be called that.) It's why on the old GC Reddit they said "gender fandom"

For teens in particular, it’s a personality trait. They want to talk about trans issues constantly. Considering the big problems we have in this country and throughout the world, trans issues pale in comparison. Want to wear a dress, wear a dress! Don’t try and say you’re a woman though.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

For teens in particular, it’s a personality trait. They want to talk about trans issues constantly. Considering the big problems we have in this country and throughout the world, trans issues pale in comparison. Want to wear a dress, wear a dress! Don’t try and say you’re a woman though.

This is what I find so insufferable. Their idenities are built around being 'queer'. I'm so glad none of this was fashionable when I was growing up

This whole obsession with gender identity is so one dimensional and adherents have one dimensional personalities

 

[emm]

This is what I find so insufferable. Their idenities are built around being 'queer'. I'm so glad none of this was fashionable when I was growing up

This whole obsession with gender identity is so one dimensional and adherents have one dimensional personalities

I agree, I think looking back most people I knew at high school/uni (including myself) would have been taken in my this tbh and it scares me the things we might have ended uo doing to our bodies

 

[Peachsquish]

What a good idea the Met had with flag down a bus.

 

[appleskin]

I don't much care for Caitlin Moran but this is a piece about men taking the piss out of women (it's all trans really as drag fallls under that)

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Only scanned the comments but picked out this one which feels apt about a lot of TiM

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Clicked on link. Saw the misuse of Simone de Beauvoir's quote. Clicked out of link

This is what I find so insufferable. Their idenities are built around being 'queer'. I'm so glad none of this was fashionable when I was growing up

This whole obsession with gender identity is so one dimensional and adherents have one dimensional personalities

Sorry to quote myself but I saw this exchange on Twitter and it's a prime example of the above. It's people in their thirties though. So insufferably boring

 

[Ispyabudgetbeanblogger]

I've just listened to the latest witch Sesh podcast (Real Housewives). The presenters started by talking about Bethenny Frankel's 'rant' on her podcast against trans people (I think an article about it has been linked above. As far as I can tell - and I haven't listened - she was talking about a male child being in dorms at summer camp with 9-year-old girls and that she didn't agree with it because male child has pen, no matter how he identifies). I don't really want to comment on exactly what BF said, because I didn't listen, but what made me so frustrated today was that the two female presenters of witch Sesh who have both young children just went on about how transphobic and outrageous it all was. And that it insinuated all trans people were predators.

This was followed by an anecdote by one of the presenters whose 9-year-old daughter asked her in detail about babies were made.

I could have screamed. How can you not put two and two together? To me, this has NOTHING to do with trans people being more/less or equally predatory to anyone else. It's to do with safeguarding. And that 9-year-olds clearly are curious about bodies, etc. No one has to be a predator, and the vast majority of kids that age will not be thinking of anything in a sexual way. However, some 9-year-old girls are menstruating and can get pregnant (as horrifying as that is) and therefore you do not want someone who has the physical means to impregnate them to sleep in the same dorm where adult supervision is limited.

I know that is the most extreme outcome and it is unlikely, but safeguarding is about making sure the unlikely doesn't happen.

Why, WHY, can't we talk about the boys making a feminine boy feel comfortable and accepted in their dorm? We all know why this kid is in with the girls. It's because as a society we somehow find it easier to accept that a feminine boy is a girl and girls should make space for him and, let's face it, they will be nice to him. Whereas he'd probably be bullied by boys. That's shameful and we should fight against it. Our expectations of boys' behaviour is so low. Why do girls have to suffer as a consequence?

 

[that1]

I've been thinking about this so much over the last few days because I was actually incensed with rage about a Tweet I saw that was basically saying 'women don't need to think about how to protect ourselves, don't think about apps or share tips about protection, tell men not to do this' so I'm interested in what you all think of this?
My personal view is actually that we desperately need to change this narrative. Yes, in theory, I would love if women could wander about freely at night, go home without fear, walk alone with headphones in. But we can't. It isn't safe for us. We don't live in this idealistic world where we can do whatever we want and I honestly despair at some of the stuff I'm seeing telling us to act as if we do? Until, and if, things actually change, this is not a safe way for women to behave. I don't want any woman to think it's safe to do these things because it isn't.
I would never, ever, ever blame a woman for e.g. not doing something that she could have done to protect herself. Something that breaks my heart about Sarah is nobody knew she hadn't arrived home until the next day and I can't stop thinking about it. Again, I cannot reiterate enough - I am not, in any shape or form, saying had she told someone maybe she would be ok, or that she bears any fault in what happened to her. The blame will always lie on the men here, regardless of what women are doing, where they're going, what they're wearing, all of it. All I am saying is at the moment there are things we cannot do as women and be safe.
Yes the burden should be on men to not do these things. But telling men not to do it won't stop them doing it. So I just have to question - telling women 'you don't need to worry about walking alone, or wearing headphones, or whatever else' - who does this serve exactly? Don't make it any easier for men to hurt you than it already is. Tell people where you are, try not to walk in lonely areas alone, don't wear headphones, don't wear your hair down if possible, yes keep your keys or hairspray in your pocket. This is not about blame or fault but about accepting the reality of the world we live in and doing whatever you can to make sure it's not you next. Does this make any sense to anyone because honestly I am completely baffled by these 'stop sharing tips with women' Tweets and articles I keep seeing.

I think the point though is more, it shouldn’t be up to women to adapt their behaviour because this isn’t a women’s issue. Gender based violence and the responsibility to address it, lies with the main demographic who perpetuate it - men.

It isn’t so much about telling male perpetrators not to do it, it’s about telling men they have to start holding their own behaviour and their peers behaviour to account. Don’t grope a girl in a club, dont call women sluts even in gest. If one of your friends is disrespectful to women then tell him it’s not ok. If a male friend is hitting on a girl who is too drunk to possibly consent, tell him it’s not ok. Don’t tolerate your friends heckling women etc.

I wish I could remember the study name, but I read years ago in a prison in the US a test sample was carried out on convicted rapists and what made them report feeling regret for their crimes. Hands down the most effective was peer review - aka when their male peers told them they thought what they’d done was bad, they realised it was.

So in reality men are best placed to tackle gender based violence even if they aren’t the ones actually doing it, and they are the ones who need to actively engage with it.

Ultimately no matter how much personal responsibility women take for their welfare, it’s an uphill battle.

For example, if Wayne Couzens’ “flashing” incident had been taken seriously in the first place, he should’ve been removed from the force and barred from all police work. He wouldn’t have been able to exploit Sarah’s trust in police if he’d been kicked out at the first transgression.

That’s why I get a bit fed up at being told to police my own behaviour, when I’m still being catcalled and stared at in public. Sure it makes sense for everyone to take care of their safety but it also makes sense to tackle problems at the root cause.

 

[thegirlscout]

For flunking out if the womens Olympics, which he was in because he isn't good enough for the mens?

Their Olympics performance was horrendous, it was like they didn’t even try!

What a good idea the Met had with flag down a bus.
View attachment 791410

It’s ridiculous. This advice and the advice about taking taxis is so flawed because both bus drivers and taxi drivers can be a serious threat to women too. It’s not like you’re automatically going to be safer in a bus/taxi.

 

[that1]

Apparently Lauren Hubbard has won Sportswomen of the Year in New Zealand.

“No thank you”

 

[Quokka]

Their Olympics performance was horrendous, it was like they didn’t even try!


It’s ridiculous. This advice and the advice about taking taxis is so flawed because both bus drivers and taxi drivers can be a serious threat to women too. It’s not like you’re automatically going to be safer in a bus/taxi.

I've heard it said that they deliberately did badly to try to counter all the arguments against trans men in women's sport.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

So I'm into fashion, I take interest in it, I like looking nice....but I have never read anything so vain as this in all my life.

Every person in this reads like the affected spoiled new kid characters in Enid Blyton books. It's insanely #firstworldproblems (oh my god, I'm staying awake at night wondering whether my dungarees today make me a she/they or a he/they and should I update that fact on my insta bio?)

How I Explored My Gender Expression During The Pandemic

A look into the joy - and struggle - of expressing gender during a pandemic.

www.refinery29.com

 

[emm]

I think the point though is more, it shouldn’t be up to women to adapt their behaviour because this isn’t a women’s issue. Gender based violence and the responsibility to address it, lies with the main demographic who perpetuate it - men.

It isn’t so much about telling male perpetrators not to do it, it’s about telling men they have to start holding their own behaviour and their peers behaviour to account. Don’t grope a girl in a club, dont call women sluts even in gest. If one of your friends is disrespectful to women then tell him it’s not ok. If a male friend is hitting on a girl who is too drunk to possibly consent, tell him it’s not ok. Don’t tolerate your friends heckling women etc.

I wish I could remember the study name, but I read years ago in a prison in the US a test sample was carried out on convicted rapists and what made them report feeling regret for their crimes. Hands down the most effective was peer review - aka when their male peers told them they thought what they’d done was bad, they realised it was.

So in reality men are best placed to tackle gender based violence even if they aren’t the ones actually doing it, and they are the ones who need to actively engage with it.

Ultimately no matter how much personal responsibility women take for their welfare, it’s an uphill battle.

For example, if Wayne Couzens’ “flashing” incident had been taken seriously in the first place, he should’ve been removed from the force and barred from all police work. He wouldn’t have been able to exploit Sarah’s trust in police if he’d been kicked out at the first transgression.

That’s why I get a bit fed up at being told to police my own behaviour, when I’m still being catcalled and stared at in public. Sure it makes sense for everyone to take care of their safety but it also makes sense to tackle problems at the root cause.

exactly, I don't get why the debate about racism is framed in a logical way (i.e. it is up to us all to tackle it, especially white people to call out racism rather than just relying on POC to do everything - and rightly so) but in the issue about gender based violence somehow this argument is totally missed?!
Peer review as you mentioned /the bystander effect is one of the buggest influences on human social behaviour. Totally agree, there is so little realt we as women can do at this stage, apart from basically not trusting anyone or going out alone anyway...

 

[thegirlscout]

Did you all see this?

The whole recommend section is a mess, seems he’s blocked most women