Gender Discussion #13

[Scotch Mist]

I am so depressed. On FB earlier, a friend who I REALLY respect commented on an article about Joan Smith who was sacked following her questioning transgender 'policies'. My friend commented that it was right she was sacked as someone who has gone through the pain of transitioning is not going to want to invade women's spaces 'for the sake of it' and what a bigot Smith is. Sometimes my faith in humanity flails wildly.

The Labour Party don't seem to recognise that they are alienating many female voters with their current policies.
They haven't got a handle on women's rights at all.

I was always a Labour voter but I won't vote for them now and suspect that I'm not alone.

 

[maytoseptember]

Yeah I have to say, while I am genuinely sympathetic to the plight of those who know they're trans from a young age

The thing is, I have an issue with this concept, i.e. someone knowing they’re trans from a young age (like this is the definition of “real/true trans”, as opposed to the fetishists and incels).

It’s a mental health condition. Any individual with enduring gender dysphoria from a young age needs help. Because if we accept that one cannot be born into the wrong body, then you need to investigate other causes - autism, abuse, trauma, etc. And they need help accepting their body as it is, not encouraged down a road of being a permanent medical patient, living as a facsimile of the sex you want to be.

 

[threeSMEGfridges]

It’s pathetic isn’t it. Do they bleed every month? Have to worry about staining clothes, chairs, running out of sanitary protection, strings showing when swimming, missing swimming altogether, stuffing a tampon or pad up their sleeve when going to the bathroom, being in a place with no sanitary bin, do you rinse a menstrual cup in a communal sink, try to hide bloody hands from view when going to wash, stuff pants with tissue (or a sock) in an emergency… all the while dealing with cramps and whatever mild side effects of excess hormones you might have. Periods are an often ugly and inconvenient part of life that we can try to make better but it is uniquely female. Why do they need to take it?

ever since I had bowel surgery I have had adhesions and when I get my period everything is so sore and worse cramping than I had. I get pain from my waist to my knees, I have heavy clots and have leaked through a cup with period pants before, meaning I had to speak to my line manager and get permission to leave the office in core hoursbefore lunch to go but new underwear and trousers.

it’s not all carrying tampons, “syncing” and eating chocolate cake FFS

 

[maytoseptember]

Females (it always seems to be females) in hetero relationships really need to stop being so desperate to be “queer” and oppressed.

 

[Mardymermaid]

Late to the party but I can’t stand Owen their whole ethos just seems to be trans trans trans non binary are all that matter in Bangor. I really don’t think they really have what’s best for Bangor in mind it’s all about them.

 

[Whatevesmate]

Just need to vent

I'm a member of a woman only hiking group on FB. It says woman only in the title. Im sure you know where this is going...

Yesterday there was a post asking what the stance is on TW. Over 120 fawning comments from woman spouting the TWAW line and how they are happy it's such a good vibes, accepting group. Comments stating that anyone who doesn't agree should leave or that they would leave if anyone objected.

I'm so annoyed about this - we can't have anything that's women only. I appreciate there are much larger issues in this area but I was annoyed as I was hoping to connect with other women who share the same interests. I was looking for FEMALE friends. I'm married to a man and work in an all male environment, I don't need anymore men in my life

I knew everyone here would understand

I'm annoyed on your behalf
This would genuinely upset me too.
Such an intrusion and the handmaidens just uncritically accepting this and excluding anyone who objects are pathetic. I'm sorry your space has been invaded. Good to vent about it. At least you know that people here understand where you are coming from

 

[Platformcrocs]

You can absolutely be bisexual if you've never had a relationship with someone of the same sex. Or opposite sex for that matter. I'm hetero and there's plenty of women I consider good looking, but I've not been sexually attracted to them. You just know who you are and aren't attracted to.

 

[Whatevesmate]

I pay to subscribe to Graham Linehan's substack. He has effectively been cancelled as he has taken such a strong stance on TRANS ideology. Its a fiver a month which feels like a small act of solidarity and he regularly updates it so a valuable source of information. Thank fuck people like him, JKR, Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies & a few others are willing to put their heads above the parapet. Huge respect and gratitude for them all.

 

[Platformcrocs]

My friend has told me they're now going by 'She/They' pronouns and I just actually do not get it?

If you're 'she' why is 'her' so different? can anyone enlighten me on why people are doing this? Genuinely confused and I'd like to know what it means to the people who are doing it?

In that case, I think they mean you can use either she/her or they/them. However, I also think the whole thing is bloody nonsense and attention-seeking people refer to others using "they" all the time and it doesn't make you special.

Think it was spoken about on here before, but there has been a spate of women in their 30s "coming out" and asking people to use she/they but still very much being female and, well, looking female. They want to be part of the LGBT community despite being very normal heterosexual women. Deciding they're now non-binary is a way of doing that without actually changing a single thing.

 

[Doc]

I will shout it til I’m blue in the face - get off social media. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. All of it. It’s overloading, influencing beliefs and behaviour and making people mentally ill. Particularly young people. Particularly women.

Forums like these with anonymity I feel are different, they are easier to walk away from, but I still don’t like the validation addiction with the reaction function (although I find it useful to acknowledge posts without having to reply).

 

[emm]

It's also happening in the body positivity community where some activists claim you're fatphobic if you're not willing to date larger people. It's as though a generation of young people have been raised without hearing the word, 'No,' and are getting into a tantrum as a result, except it's leeching into sex and relationships.

For years feminists were banging the drum of the importance of consent, respect and boundaries in everyday life, and yet people are being expected to unravel their boundaries for someone else's validation. It's so, so dangerous.

it is SO insane isn;t it, consent in relationships has become such a big thing in recent years, yet with these communities nthey are somehow above it?
I don;t know if anyone has mentioned it already, but remember that bizarre case in the UK in which someone (female) pretended to be male to have a relationship with her female friend? she was jailed I think in the end, how is people pretending not to have penises different?

 

[Vanelope]

I believe you can be bi or gay if you have never had a same sex encounter, just like you can be straight and a virgin.
But if you are not defining your current dating pool to prospective dates, it doesn’t need to be an identifier on things like social media in my opinion.

There’s a recent post on r/books about a certain post by a man who enjoyed a ‘women’s’ book (Little Women) and how it’s disturbing -

were the women like, ‘scary’ little?

 

[Django]

Mark Ruffalo's daughter wears a tuxedo like a boss

Mark Ruffalo wins the MTV Movie Award red carpet with his daughter and their matching tuxedos.

www.sheknows.com

I don’t get it. Literally a daughter who wears a suit. It isn’t pushing gender boundaries. Talk to Tilda Swinton or Cara Delavigne or Kristen Stewart or Jodie Foster who regularly wear suits. It’s not gender non conforming. This is bollocks.

ETA the article is over 5 years old but this just seems to be a girl who doesn’t like dresses. And that’s great but not groundbreaking.

Busy Philips daughter is now queer and uses they pronouns. She’s 12. She still dresses very girly and seems to have crushes on lots of tween boys. So I don’t get it. It’s just trying to be different and parents are trying to be cool with it. The captions that use They all the time as so clunky.

looks down...
I have been laying floor tiles this morning and appear to be wearing a vest and dungarees, am I a man??

 

[judgejohndeed]

Coercion is coercion regardless of who the perpetrator is. What an arsehole.

This is another philosophically loaded concept (much like autonomy) that plonkers bandy around without knowing anything about it.
Coercion was a big theme in my PhD. Every account of coercion that I'm aware of includes a fear of physical violence, e.g. slapping.
In my opinion, if someone wants to start reconceptualising these concepts then they should do so properly, and be prepared for their versions to be scrutinised by people who know what they're talking about.

Anyway ranting over, I actually came to see if anyone was talking about Lily Cole being 'queer.' She's in a long term hetero relationship. I don't see what is to be gained, either for her or the LGB community, when people in long term hetero relationships 'come out' like this? I'm not a fan of e.g. telling people who are bisexual that they aren't bisexual unless they've 'proven' it by 'acting' on it, but this does seem like attention seeking to me.

 

[Vanelope]

Stonewall is clearly overreaching and every single trans tantrum - like the leotards today - reinforces what they are doing to women and girls. More and more people are seeing it’s not about living their own life, it’s changing the reality for women for their benefit.
I feel very sorry for the trans people who are not part of this activism and just want to get on with their own lives without trying to replace women.

 

[Platformcrocs]

This winds me up. A lot of NHS services are a lottery such as where I live in Essex you get 0 rounds of IVF regardless of circumstances. Few miles away in London, some boroughs get 3 rounds. That isn't equal access.

But if you break your leg or have a car crash etc. You will get the same care regardless of your sex or gender ideology.

I assume by health care he means hormones and gender reassigned surgery. This is not life or death health care needs despite what they might think.

Re hormones/gender reassignment - someone asked why a non binary person would need this and just got told to "educate themselves" apparently non binary people want access to hormones to alter their physical appearance. That's all voluntary though and I doubt the NHS will be dishing out hormones to people who want to experiment with their gender identity.. For now.

Owen, you are not being denied any healthcare whatsoever by saying that you are "non-binary". What a load of tosh. The NHS will treat you just as they do everyone else.

He really desperately wants to be discriminated against, he's vile

 

[Whatevesmate]

They know it, they just don't care as their needs take precedence. Society needs to get a grip and stop treating children like emperors.

If children think that they are the wrong gender they are lovingly but firmly told that it doesn't work like that. It is not possible to change biology and to use it as an opportunity to explore what the underlying issues are, whether that be jumping on a bandwagon or legitimate feelings of gender dysphoria.

However, I think that this agenda has been initiated and led by adults. Even the CEO of the charity Mermaids makes it sound as if she were solely responding to her child's desire to change gender. If you hear the whole story she explicitly states that her husband didn't want a gay son.

The most vociferous voices in all of this seems to be adult men.

Edited to remove divvy cut & paste error

 

[Doc]

The internet has a lot to answer for. It radicalises people in lots of ways by forming huge online “communities” or echo chambers and can trigger people into abnormal behaviour.

It has replaced religion as the number one way of controlling large groups of people imho.

The problem is, you can’t moderate it, because who moderates the moderators? It relies on the narrative being set. For example in the current climate, trans rights would be top of the pile and we wouldn’t be able to discuss it.

sorry this is just brain dumping into a post.

 

[maytoseptember]

Yeah, there’s a difference between women’s spaces excluding men (for safety, privacy etc) and men’s spaces excluding women (because patriarchy).

 

[Vanelope]

There are no Jim Royle gifs - but that whole thing deserves ‘my arse’

gender has nothing to do with what you wear - at all! Or your haircut, or what job you do.