Gender Discussion #13

[colouredlines]

I had already felt a bit off about them too but couldn't quite put my finger on what. In the CRT thread I found them quite aggressive.

For me, I felt like...well, I think it's fair to say that most of us here oppose TRAs but have sympathy to the individuals who are caught up in this movement - people genuinely suffering from gender dysphoria, anxious teenage girls trying to identify out of womanhood, etc etc. I certainly can identify a lot with what JK Rowling says; she is sympathetic, but realistic.

That poster seemed to be coming from a very different place, a sort of "it's political correctness gone mad!" point of view. I'm not really interested in laughing at 15-year-olds on TikTok - I had a LiveJournal at that age, and the thought of what I used to write makes me cringe. I generally glossed over that poster's contributions, and it's a relief to see that I wasn't alone.

I appreciate this thread. There are some differences of opinion, sure, but I enjoy the discussions we have here. Hopefully next time that dickhead shows up (because we all know there'll be a next time...) we can get rid nice and quickly!

 

[Withwhat]

I just bought the book invisible women, went onto good reads to see some reviews and what people are saying it, most of it is positive and 5 stars, but there are quite a few review giving 1 or 2 stars and saying ‘I have to give this book two stars for its appalling erasure of trans and non binary people’ FFS can women not have anything!?

I really like that book. There’s so much in it about how systems are designed without women in mind. But I don’t think people who are criticising the book for not addressing trans issues have read it. Theres nothing in it that says “women, because they are born women” are so disadvantaged. It’s all “typically” women are shorter/have more caring responsibilities/ present with illnesses differently/ have higher pitched voices and by designing the world for people who are taller etc women are disadvantaged.

I’m a short woman. It’s very interesting to me that I’m more likely to die or be injured in a car accident because the safety tests use an average male body as the default. How is acknowledging that harmful to trans people?

 

[Vanelope]

I just rang my boyfriend at work to tell him something quickly and a man that works there (and is a drag queen) picked up the phone and started making sex noises down the phone. Apparently, it was a joke, he was trying to make it sound as if my partner was cheating on me but because it was so obviously a man making the noises it was meant to be funny. I felt violated.
I explained this to my boyfriend so that he could understand why I hung up the phone upset and shaking:
a) He's friendly with my boyfriend, but I don't know him. So, ultimately, a strange man just made sexual noises to me down the phone. If a man did that to me on the street, even if it was a joke, it would be harassment.
b) It doesn't matter what the intentions were, at the end of the day I felt violated and harassed. So guess what, I was violated and harassed. No excuses.
I haven't taken any further action. But if it happens again I will talk to this man and let him know that this is not ok

Entirely up to you obviously - this is your situation. But it’s a place of work - and a work line. And the behaviour is inappropriate and honestly your boyfriend should be making a complaint. Only my opinion but your reaction to it makes me feel this should be dealt with and he should not be let off. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[ChilliBean]

What do words even mean anymore

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

There's a thread here with the story from Marion Millar's side. Like you say, the trans woman's account was highly exaggerated. What a shock.

It's pathetic. A jumped up man really decided to call the police on a middle aged woman having a drink with her husband. It's targeted harassment.

This is actually ridiculous. The police don’t give a shit when someone breaks into your home and steals your valuables but god forbid a woman sit in a bar wearing a t-shirt someone disagrees with, 5 officer job that.

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

I don't really understand why trans is part of LGBT.
lgb is supposed to be about sexuality. Trans isn't about sexual partners, it's about gender.

Surely if youre a gay man whose transed to a woman and you have relationships with men, then youre sexuality is covered by the G, why do they need to be represented as T .

Non binary definitely shouldn't be part of LGBT, especially not if you're opposite sex attracted.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

God I fucking hate Owen Jones.

This type of shit that happened in Manchester is why I refuse to go to pride, I wouldn't feel the slightest bit safe there. I agree with the following tweet



Also - Diana was trans

 

[Vanelope]

I’ve said before how stupid this is - women’s bodies are more than just ovens, they create the baby using their own bodies. The dna is there but the female body grows the child using energy and matter from the mother, like leeching calcium from her bones and teeth. Surrogacy has a lot to answer for.

OT but Kristen Griffith-Vanderyacht (celebrity florist) and his husband have fostered to adopt a second son. The announcement was joyous - and the fact they are adopting made it really happy for me as a woman has not been paid to carry a baby for them. Adoption is such a wonderful thing.

 

[jolly_parsley]

I’m 26 and feel like one of the only people my age who thinks like this

I'm the same age and feel exactly the same as you! So many friends/family around my age are all JKR is a TERF/TWAW types so I keep quiet because I'm not quite ready for that debate with them. Maybe one day... Here feels safer and I lurk a lot because it makes me feel less isolated in my opinions than on Twitter/offline

 

[Satisfying Click]

One of the most disturbing things I've seen evolve from this is the implicit treatment of children as though they're mini-adults and they just need time to become aware of and gain control of their body. Once that happens, what they say is gospel.

In doing this, we're to blindly accept a three year old boy saying they're a girl, or it's fine that children are exposed to kink because they just want to pat the [rubber] doggy. It's why so many people got the ick (sorry, Love Island ref) when BBC Women's Hour asked if there should be 'age-appropriate porn' for teenagers, because we recognise that no, they're children, and we prevent them from having access to adult things (tattoos, marriage etc) because they are not yet old or mature enough to understand what is involved, and what the consequences are.

In treating children as mini-adults, the unscrupulous individuals like gender therapists, endocrinologists and surgeons are laughing their way to the bank. In the Bell v Tavistock appeal, the barrister for Tavistock wants the initial judicial review reversed as this would allow for a child to be autonomous - to consent to experimental treatment. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the mental leaps that some take, to say that if an eleven year old can consent to puberty blockers, then surely they can consent to sex.

 

[Doc]

At some point the trans activists will face down with religions and cultures that limit interaction with men not in the woman’s family. This will happen at girls schools, healthcare providers and women’s pools. Trans activists will not win against that, because then they are racist. It’s oppression top trumps and recent cases where authorities were terrified of being called racist (like Rotherham) imply that the trans lobby will not win.

Im not so sure… I think trans - particularly TW - are currently at the top of the oppression points ladder. There is no hesitation in taking down a black woman who expresses GC views.

I’m another that is sick of the whole colonial chat and finding racism everywhere. It’s destructive snd solves NOTHING but causes more division. BLM employ the same tactics as Stonewall imho.

 

[Vee6]

I will never understand it either, and I will never understand women who claim they love to be choked and it’s their idea to do it in bed, not their partners.

I think there’s a book to be written somewhere about porn and the way it influences what women want to have done to them, sexually. I don’t believe any woman inherently, naturally wants to be choked and beaten during sex. It’s fucked up.

Clearly, it’s a new “thing” to go mainstream. Every generation seems to embrace a new risqué sexual act, more risqué than the last. I’m old enough to remember the idea of anal being something that no woman really did. I certainly didn’t read about it in 90s teen magazines. Now we have Teen Vogue advising girls about how to do it.

I find the choking thing disgusting. What does it say about men who get off on being violent to women?! Luckily I’m old enough to say sod off. I worry that teenagers will see this as normal, sex will be awful for them and people will get badly injured. From working in a&e years ago, so many women were in with strangling injuries which were ‘accidental’. Grim

 

[maytoseptember]

I read an article yesterday about some actress who I forget the name of now but she played Princess Diana I think. Anyway they now go by she/they pronouns and in the article talked about being queer. Just didn’t get the point of it tbh, what does being ‘queer’ even mean these days? What’s the point in going by they AND she?

“Queer” basically means whatever someone wants it to mean. Basically anything non-mainstream. A desperation to feel different… and slightly oppressed.

For Emma Corrin it seems to be:

Not like the other girls

A cry for attention now that her role in The Crown is over

An excuse to bind her breasts and publicise a photo shoot in which she wore a pseudo “binder” (but it wasn’t a binder at all).

I don’t understand the “she/they” pronouns either. But I do suspect it’s indicative of someone toying with a non-binary identity but not actually wanting to give up femininity

This week I noticed an acquaintance on Insta has “she/they” in her bio and was so disappointed. If intelligent 40 year old women aren’t immune to social contagion, then we are doomed.

 

[judgejohndeed]

A post on r/askfeminists asking why there are so many ‘terfs’, the comments are comedy gold. Apparently we are all conservatives and don’t include women of colour in our narratives. There also ‘aren’t very many’ of us which of course is bollocks. If you ever have questions about feminism, that sub is one of the worst places to get answers.


Link if you want a laugh.

Imagine thinking you're a feminist sub when you're saying 'we ban terfs here' lmao? If you're banning women from your sub it isn't feminist bestie!

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

One thing I saw that annoyed me is that when mosques reopened with pandemic measures, they prioritised only the mens worship. The article I read reporting it had male Muslim leaders saying 'well the women can worship at home ' and I was shouting at my phone going 'so can the men!' Keep the women isolated in their houses while the men meet and do business.

 

[Vanelope]

The bit of the whole patronising posts like this I find so infuriating is when people are saying something so outlandishly bonkers and then follow it up with ‘I’m not taking questions’ ‘don’t need the discourse’ or ‘educate yourself first’ which is an attempt to silence the debate. It’s Orwellian groupthink. Those inane tiktok explainers about neopronouns and obscure sexualities as made up conversations also in that category. So passive aggressive.

 

[Peachsquish]

Kirstie Alley speaking out

#

 

[emm]

I just rang my boyfriend at work to tell him something quickly and a man that works there (and is a drag queen) picked up the phone and started making sex noises down the phone. Apparently, it was a joke, he was trying to make it sound as if my partner was cheating on me but because it was so obviously a man making the noises it was meant to be funny. I felt violated.
I explained this to my boyfriend so that he could understand why I hung up the phone upset and shaking:
a) He's friendly with my boyfriend, but I don't know him. So, ultimately, a strange man just made sexual noises to me down the phone. If a man did that to me on the street, even if it was a joke, it would be harassment.
b) It doesn't matter what the intentions were, at the end of the day I felt violated and harassed. So guess what, I was violated and harassed. No excuses.
I haven't taken any further action. But if it happens again I will talk to this man and let him know that this is not ok

JEsus, I think regardless of that being a man or woman that is just totally unprfessional surely?! Hoesntly I would have reported it the first time

 

[AlanBanan]

Probably not the correct thread but do any of these people have a life or a friend outside of the internet?

Also the worlds majority is Asian and they use the word curry daily. Why are overly sensitive privileged pricks going out of their way to try and be politically correct when the people who are supposed to be offended by the word “curry” aren’t offended in the least and have better things to worry about?

 

[AlanBanan]

How dare you monetise crap like this? Courses about ‘squirting’!? It’s been proven again and again that squirting is a myth and it’s just piss

I was once read an article from Vice (I think) where women tell their stories from their time in porn and one lady spoke about how squirting was her niche. She said how she would have to drink litres and litres of water until her wee runs clear, then she is forced to hold it in for ages until the big climax scene. She spoke how she was very prone to bladder and kidney infections because of rough sex and not being allowed to piss until the director told her to.