English channel migrant crossing crisis #6

[monga]

Yeah but because the Refugee Convention is EU legislation then surely it means that the European Court on Human Rights decides its decisions based on the Refugee Convention??

Or am I getting a bit confused here?

I’m confused? Are you saying the refugee convention isn’t law/ legislation?

 

[Merpedy]

I’m confused? Are you saying the refugee convention isn’t law/ legislation?

Obviously not saying that. I established that its EU legislation in my reply to you??

 

[monga]

Obviously not saying that. I established that its EU legislation in my reply to you??

So what is it I’m supposed to have said that’s wrong?
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The words definitely out about UK allowing illegals to work.

 

[Merpedy]

So what is it I’m supposed to have said that’s wrong?

Nothing?
I was just asking if the ECHR decides cases based on the Refugee Convention because I couldn’t find the answer on Google

The words definitely out about UK allowing illegals to work.

This has been a policy for such a long time

I really don’t think the man chose to end his life over permission to work… come on now

 

[monga]

Nothing?
I was just asking if the ECHR decides cases based on the Refugee Convention because I couldn’t find the answer on Google



This has been a policy for such a long time

I really don’t think the man chose to end his life over permission to work… come on now

So what’s so hilarious about that question …It’s nothing to do with him ending his life I thought he had only recently arrived ( or was that the person they named by mistake) and was already granted a work permit , considering his family stated he was an economic migrant I can only assume he lied on his asylum claim to begin with.

 

[Merpedy]

So what’s so hilarious about that question

To start with, the Refugee Convention is obviously not EU legislation. It was not created by the EU and the UK was one of the original 28 signatories - something Moth was trying to explain to you

Secondly, the European Court of Human Rights (which has nothing to actually do with the EU as an institution as Onetwofour pointed out) has nothing to do with the Refugee Convention (which is part of the United Nations and has become a general principle of international law)

This Court – the European Court of Human Rights – is not competent to examine the application of the Geneva Convention. And the European Convention on Human Rights does not provide for a right to asylum. As a matter of principle, the right to control the entry, residence and expulsion of nonnationals rests with the States.
But the Member States of the Council of Europe are under the obligation to secure to everyone within their jurisdiction, including migrants, the respect of the rights guaranteed by the European Convention on Human Rights. And it is to this end that the Court’s case-law imposes certain limitations on the right of States to turn someone away from their borders.

source
Council of Europe vs European Council btw

You no doubt know all of this and there has not been any confusion about any of this of course

 

[monga]

To start with, the Refugee Convention is obviously not EU legislation. It was not created by the EU and the UK was one of the original 28 signatories - something Moth was trying to explain to you

Secondly, the European Court of Human Rights (which has nothing to actually do with the EU as an institution as Onetwofour pointed out) has nothing to do with the Refugee Convention (which is part of the United Nations and has become a general principle of international law)


source
Council of Europe vs European Council btw

You no doubt know all of this and there has not been any confusion about any of this of course

I didn’t mention anything about them? Only to say some EU countries have legislation they have to follow .I only posted the refugee convention to show what came about after the war, I wasn’t going to post every human right / refugee laws that EU countries do or do not follow , some are party to the Lisbon treaty , some have chosen to ignore ECHR and expel people regardless…if the person wants more info they’re well able to search it up…Nowhere did I say the EU created the refugee convention.
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[Moth]

It’s you making an ass of yourself as usual…She asked if EU countries were bound by legislation! It’s you that mentioned UK !…Why on earth would she ask on a gossip site if it’s factual information?? We’re no experts!…No mention of UK in my reply !

I mean ... @Kiwigirl and I were talking about the UK. You ... well I don't know what you were doing but it had nothing to do with her question.

I'm not in the UK but naively wondered why boats that turn up on UK shores are not immediately sent back to their country of origin?
Is there some EU legislation or something that prohibits this, or is there not enough policing to enforce sending boats back.......don't come at me for asking, it looks different from another country and I feel for the people of the UK for having to endure the fallout.

Still waiting to hear about this EU legislation that 'countries' signed up to after WWII.

 

[monga]

I mean ... @Kiwigirl and I were talking about the UK. You ... well I don't know what you were doing but it had nothing to do with her question.



Still waiting to hear about this EU legislation that 'countries' signed up to after WWII.

You weren’t talking at all…I’ve already explained the legislation that EU countries follow or have they all opted out unbeknownst???…I guess it’s your literal thinking that prevents you from grasping conversations unless they’re explicit in minor details….By your reckoning the UK and other European countries are not party to the refugee convention nor ECHR is that what you’re claiming??

 

[Moth]

I’m confused? Are you saying the refugee convention isn’t law/ legislation?

Actually the UNHCR Convention isn't law / legislation. It's a policy that individual countries agree to follow. Each country then enacts its own law to cover the agreed policy. The UK enacted it's own law to cover the Convention that came into force in 1954, 3 years before the EEC (EU) even existed.
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You weren’t talking at all…I’ve already explained the legislation that EU countries follow or have they all opted out unbeknownst???…I guess it’s your literal thinking that prevents you from grasping conversations unless they’re explicit in minor details.

For the last time .. the UK (which is what @Kiwigirl asked about) isn't a EU country and it wasn't an EU (EEC) country when the Convention was signed, ratified or entered in to UK law.

By 'literal thinking' I guess you mean answering the question that was asked rather than one that was floating around in your head

 

[monga]

Actually the UNHCR Convention isn't law / legislation. It's a policy that individual countries agree to follow. Each country then enacts its own law to cover the agreed policy. The UK enacted it's own law to cover the Convention that came into force in 1954, 3 years before the EEC (EU) even existed.
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For the last time .. the UK (which is what @Kiwigirl asked about) isn't a EU country and it wasn't an EU (EEC) country when the Convention was signed, ratified or entered in to UK law.

By 'literal thinking' I guess you mean answering the question that was asked rather than one that was floating around in your head

For the last time it was you mentioned UK , not me…I guess the CAB isn’t open yet if their most dedicated member is online ,bored ,trying to pick fights over something he’s made up in his own head 🥱I thought a treaty was a formal agreement that makes up a law.

 

[Merpedy]

 

[Moth]

For the last time it was you mentioned UK , not me…I guess the CAB isn’t open yet if their most dedicated member is online ,bored ,trying to pick fights over something he’s made up in his own head 🥱I thought a treaty was a formal agreement that makes up a law.

Ah insults. Now I know we're getting to the end stage of your attempt to defend the indefensible.

No you didn't mention the UK but @Kiwigirl did which is why I replied to her not you. I answered her question while apparently you replied to a question she didn't ask. That makes sense.

What you think a treaty is (or a Convention for that matter) is probably not that useful to the rest of us. I mean obviously I, with my 'literal thinking', can't hope to understand. I have to say that you operate on a different level to most people I know.

 

[monga]

Ah insults. Now I know we're getting to the end stage of your attempt to defend the indefensible.

No you didn't mention the UK but @Kiwigirl did which is why I replied to her not you. I answered her question while apparently you replied to a question she didn't ask. That makes sense.

What you think a treaty is (or a Convention for that matter) is probably not that useful to the rest of us. I mean obviously I, with my 'literal thinking', can't hope to understand. I have to say that you operate on a different level to most people I know.

I was replying to the legislation that EU countries follow, the one that asylum seekers have taken countries to court over for breaking the LAW …I believe the Ukrainians fall under a different set of laws to international protection applicants…Kiwi asked why people couldn’t be driven back from the UK shores by police I pointed out that some European countries have legislation where asylum claims are a right, you’re the one that can’t grasp anything unless it’s literally explained.

Article 18 - Right to asylum

fra.europa.eu

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

fra.europa.eu

 

[Merpedy]

I have a strong feeling we are getting the EU confused with the ECHR here

Mostly because the majority of this thread and general political discourse has been about the ECHR

 

[monga]

I have a strong feeling we are getting the EU confused with the ECHR here

Mostly because the majority of this thread and general political discourse has been about the ECHR

Not at all …Ireland is an EU country , NI is still in the single market despite being a UK region, different laws apply throughout British Isles.

 

[Merpedy]

Not at all …Ireland is an EU country , NI is still in the single market despite being a UK region, different laws apply throughout British Isles.

This was clearly in reply to you linking to the CJEU which works differently to the ECHR. In fact, I don't think we have ever discussed the CJEU here and I don't remember it ever being mentioned by British politicians when we were still in the EU

It also doesn't change that originally you tried to tell that one poster that the Refugee Convention was EU legislation We can all read even if you write us essays about how you're definitely not wrong

 

[monga]

This was clearly in reply to you linking to the CJEU which works differently to the ECHR. In fact, I don't think we have ever discussed the CJEU here and I don't remember it ever being mentioned by British politicians when we were still in the EU

It also doesn't change that originally you tried to tell that one poster that the Refugee Convention was EU legislation We can all read even if you write us essays about how you're definitely not wrong

Don’t think so….I didn’t tell them anything I posted the link to the refugee convention to show what came about after WWII and that there’s legislation that some EU countries follow .

Press Release: Irish Refugee Council welcomes judgment of High Court on homeless applicant

Press release: Irish Refugee Council welcomes judgment of High Court that failure to provide accommodation to international protection applicants is unlawful and breaches applicant’s rights under EU law The High Court today declared that the State’s failure to provide accommodation, food and...

www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie

 

[Moley1]

And employing people off dinghies - most of whom already hate the UK, their laws, their way of life, and most importantly - white people ... is helping the situation, how?

Yes, I do agree that we have a real problem re care & care workers here. Some people I know personally have worked in care homes and imo never should have been anywhere near that sort of job. The government is definitely at fault. But adding channel migrants to the mix - you think that's a solution?

How do you know that most of them hate the UK? Have you been listening to Suella Braverman?

 

[monga]

Disgraceful , the justice system is a joke.

Namibian used fake passports to live and work in Britain for years

archived 23 Jan 2024 03:36:05 UTC

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