English Channel migrant crossing crisis #3

[Blueblue123]

I’m sorry I’m probably sounding tooo cynical. But for years and years we have given charity to African countries. We know it barely reaches the citizens but is taken but the governments. Africa is rich but not distributed to their people. China is out there building towns for these people just so they can take their minerals.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we are being paid loads to take these people. And we have an agreement in place. Hence why we don’t stop it.

Africa is but 54 countries, not all will be eligible for aid or the same level of aid.

And that's before we even discuss the trustworthiness of some charities and where the money they raise really goes.

Then you have to consider that France forces around 11 African countries to trade in its currency and deposit money into the French central bank. So around a fifth of African countries are actually supporting the French economy.

And then there are the companies and institutions that still make money off of African resources like gold, diamonds and minerals for our smartphones.

Aid is a drop in the ocean when you compare the wealth and resources pillaged over 400 years to the less than 70 years most African countries have been independent for.

But I agree, the arrangements are shady and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to imagine that the Western aid givers and African politicians get a better deal than African people.

 

[monga]

Where does she propose they go ? Bed blocking hotels is costing a fortune in lost revenue.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-06-06/protests-against-proposals-to-house-asylum-seekers-on-boats-in-merseyside

 

[Lollyy]

Africa is but 54 countries, not all will be eligible for aid or the same level of aid.

And that's before we even discuss the trustworthiness of some charities and where the money they raise really goes.

Then you have to consider that France forces around 11 African countries to trade in its currency and deposit money into the French central bank. So around a fifth of African countries are actually supporting the French economy.

And then there are the companies and institutions that still make money off of African resources like gold, diamonds and minerals for our smartphones.

Aid is a drop in the ocean when you compare the wealth and resources pillaged over 400 years to the less than 70 years most African countries have been independent for.

But I agree, the arrangements are shady and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to imagine that the Western aid givers and African politicians get a better deal than African people.

Very true, slightly off topic but what china owns both in Africa, for like you said their minerals and in the UK is scary. I remember reading about it once, they have shared in most things in the UK, as a country I feel like we are screwed at this point in time. & I am from a family both mum & dads parents immigrated after the war. It’s sad to see.

 

[Merpedy]

House of Lords have been scrutinising the Bill. It appears that they were not given an extra day and began at 3:45-50PM:




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https://twitter.com/paulscriven/status/1666629871563415552?s=46&t=O1NpclQIZEXpla509_NhOg

https://twitter.com/paulscriven/status/1665773463418617856?s=46&t=O1NpclQIZEXpla509_NhOg

 

[NeverEnough]

Hoping the children and old man attacked in France today pull through.

 

[monga]

House of Lords have been scrutinising the Bill. It appears that they were not given an extra day and began at 3:45-50PM:




---

https://twitter.com/paulscriven/status/1666629871563415552?s=46&t=O1NpclQIZEXpla509_NhOg

https://twitter.com/paulscriven/status/1665773463418617856?s=46&t=O1NpclQIZEXpla509_NhOg

Apparently Sunak will overrule them regardless?

 

[Lollyy]

Hoping the children and old man attacked in France today pull through.

Syrian refugee stabs a child in its pram in front of screaming mother

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT: Horrific footage shows a Syrian refugee repeatedly stabbing a toddler in its pram in front of his screaming mother in a frenzied attack in France.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Link if anyone wants.
this Isn’t Paris, these are small towns.. it’s frightening.
Why are we allowing this unvetted immigration. I just don’t get it

 

[Merpedy]

Apparently Sunak will overrule them regardless?

I’ve seen this being teased too and I imagine there would be support for it due to the subject and the fact that the HoL is not elected

Doesn’t change the fact that it’s extremely dirty to attempt to reduce scrutiny of legislation though. The raised points are fairly easy to find on Twitter and have been discussed here before too - though it was more in depth when it came to issues such as vulnerable asylum seekers and children

Does the House of Lords scrutinise effectively? - Britpolitics

Powers, limitations and advantages the UK House of Lords has in the UK parliamentary process. For Advanced Level Government and Politics students.

www.britpolitics.co.uk

 

[monga]

Syrian refugee stabs a child in its pram in front of screaming mother

WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT: Horrific footage shows a Syrian refugee repeatedly stabbing a toddler in its pram in front of his screaming mother in a frenzied attack in France.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Link if anyone wants.
this Isn’t Paris, these are small towns.. it’s frightening.
Why are we allowing this unvetted immigration. I just don’t get it

As we don’t know the facts it could be MH related? In saying that it doesn’t change the fact these people come and are left to their own devices without support or monitoring.

 

[Lollyy]

As we don’t know the facts it could be MH related? In saying that it doesn’t change the fact these people come and are left to their own devices without support or monitoring.View attachment 2225656

I think for anyone to do these acts of atrocity it goes without saying they have MH issues. But this is too much of a reoccurring problem.

I don’t see how these people from such war torn countries who witness such awful acts of violence constantly aren’t desensitised to this. Therefore I think some is mental health, some is product of their environment. But safe counties like France, UK shouldn’t be putting up with it. They are now actively inviting this. I’m all for controlled immigration etc.

 

[Merpedy]

I think for anyone to do these acts of atrocity it goes without saying they have MH issues. But this is too much of a reoccurring problem.

I don’t see how these people from such war torn countries who witness such awful acts of violence constantly aren’t desensitised to this. Therefore I think some is mental health, some is product of their environment. But safe counties like France, UK shouldn’t be putting up with it. They are now actively inviting this. I’m all for controlled immigration etc.

The argument could be made that these countries are making the problem worse by encouraging hostility with policies and language use

Also, this has come out today:

UK provided £3m to Turkish border forces to stop migrants, FOI reveals

Investigation shows Home Office funds ‘return and reintegration assistance’ and provides equipment and training to Turkish police

www.theguardian.com

Last year Turkey said it “turned back” 238,448 migrants at its eastern border with Iran. Video evidence seen by the Guardian shows cases of extreme violence and force used against Afghan migrants attempting to cross the border into Turkey. This includes the authorities firing live bullet rounds as people flee, including at the feet of children; beatings using rifle butts; robberies; humiliation tactics and pushing people back to the other side of the border.

 

[NeverEnough]

The argument could be made that these countries are making the problem worse by encouraging hostility with policies and language use

Also, this has come out today:

UK provided £3m to Turkish border forces to stop migrants, FOI reveals

Investigation shows Home Office funds ‘return and reintegration assistance’ and provides equipment and training to Turkish police

www.theguardian.com

So are you implying that the mindset of the individual involved was France are using harsh language therefore I will stab some children in their pushchairs?

Interesting sense of perspective he has....

 

[Merpedy]

So are you implying that the mindset of the individual involved was France are using harsh language therefore I will stab some children in their pushchairs?

It's almost like you ignore the context of the conversation just to ignore it

Mental illness + harsh living conditions + constant hostility from politicians and therefore society, not to mention the increase in far right movements capitalising on this = not hard to see where it can all go in deteriorating your mental health and making you feel some type of way about the society you find yourself in and may not be able to leave

 

[monga]

He looks like he hasn’t a care in the world , they don’t know the motive yet or if he’s part of a bigger cell.

 

[NeverEnough]

It's almost like you ignore the context of the conversation just to ignore it

Mental illness + harsh living conditions + constant hostility from politicians and therefore society, not to mention the increase in far right movements capitalising on this = not hard to see where it can all go in deteriorating your mental health and making you feel some type of way about the society you find yourself in and may not be able to leave

So in effect the argument is that an individual is nothing more than a reflection of their circumstances and has no individual agency, culpability, or moral sense of right or wrong?

What a desolate view of humanity.

 

[Merpedy]

Changes:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2023-06-08/hcws837

We will therefore pause the differentiation policy in the next package of Immigration Rules changes in July 2023. This means we will stop taking grouping decisions under the differentiated asylum system after these Rules changes and those individuals who are successful in their asylum application, including those who are granted humanitarian protection, will receive the same conditions. Our ability to remove failed asylum applicants remains unchanged.

Individuals who have already received a “Group 2” or humanitarian protection decision under post-28 June 2022 policies will be contacted and will have their conditions aligned to those afforded to “Group 1” refugees. This includes length of permission to stay, route to settlement, and eligibility for Family Reunion.

On 23 February 2023 the Home Office announced the streamlined asylum processing model for a small number of cases of nationalities with high asylum grant rates: Afghanistan, Eritrea, Libya, Syria, Yemen. Because this model focuses on manifestly well-founded cases, positive decisions can be taken without the need for an additional interview. No one will have their asylum application refused without the opportunity of an additional interview. Those claims made between 28 June 2022 and the date of introduction of the Illegal Migration Bill (7 March 2023) will be processed according to this model. This will also include claimants from Sudan. Sudanese legacy claimants are already being processed in-line with established policies and processes and will be decided in-line with the Prime Minister’s commitment to clear the backlog of legacy asylum claims by the end of 2023.

 

[NeverEnough]

So wait a minute this guy in France already had refugee status. In Sweden. So he was already given protection and the chance to rebuild his life in safety? However it appears he didn't fancy that so he went to France. Is France considered safer than Sweden? Anyway I digress. So after receiving asylum in a safe European country my understanding based on opinions introduced on this thread is that he went on a stabbing rampage because some people were a bit mean to him. I'm confused because isn't the perceived wisdom on this thread also that when given status he should have immediately become a valuable tax paying member of Swedish Society. Possibly even trained up as an ambulance paramedic?

I wonder where he was going to head to after France?

 

[Merpedy]

When you’re granted refugee status it doesn’t appear that you’re stopped from travelling assuming you have documentation (if needed) and a visa (if needed). Both Sweden and France are in the Schengen Area

Being granted refugee status doesn’t fix all the other associated issues with how you came to get that status or the otherwise hostile rhetoric. At the moment there doesn’t seem to be anything on whether he had a criminal past

 

[NeverEnough]

When you’re granted refugee status it doesn’t appear that you’re stopped from travelling assuming you have documentation (if needed) and a visa (if needed). Both Sweden and France are in the Schengen Area

Being granted refugee status doesn’t fix all the other associated issues with how you came to get that status or the otherwise hostile rhetoric. At the moment there doesn’t seem to be anything on whether he had a criminal past

Oh I see. So what does an asylum seeker need more than the safe haven he was already granted? What were those "associated issues"? And why haven't they been dealt with in the ten years he has been a recognised refugee? Are we talking guaranteed employment, guaranteed income, guaranteed healthcare, (wouldn't we all love that). Because if so it doesn't half sound like benefit shopping to me. Or at very least a search for a utopia that doesn't, and never has, existed. Anyhow here is the live feed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/65843586

Facts we know so far.

No criminal record.
No psychiatric record.
Granted asylum 10 years ago in Sweden. Made another claim in France. Why? Is Sweden a war torn country where he rights are violated daily? Is he facing arbitrary arrest and extra judicial torture in Stockholm? Or did he fancy a more attractive package?
Original refugee grant now being "looked at". Hmmm. Ya think he might have told a few little porkies?
Not quite sure how a 22 month old baby in a pushchair is an acceptable stand in for the "Far Right" which has been apparently been plaguing him. Was it a Fascist Baby?

 

[Merpedy]

Oh I see. So what does an asylum seeker need more than the safe haven he was already granted? What were those "associated issues"? And why haven't they been dealt with in the ten years he has been a recognised refugee? Are we talking guaranteed employment, guaranteed income, guaranteed healthcare, (wouldn't we all love that). Because if so it doesn't half sound like benefit shopping to me. Or at very least a search for a utopia that doesn't, and never has, existed. Anyhow here is the live feed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/65843586

Facts we know so far.

No criminal record.
No psychiatric record.
Granted asylum 10 years ago in Sweden. Made another claim in France. Why? Is Sweden a war torn country where he rights are violated daily? Is he facing arbitrary arrest and extra judicial torture in Stockholm? Or did he fancy a more attractive package?
Original refugee grant now being "looked at". Hmmm. Ya think he might have told a few little porkies?

It says right there that his asylum claim in France was overridden by the Swedish claim. There doesn’t appear to be anything to stop him from being in France despite that - I saw someone elsewhere mention that Germany is looking to introduce checks on refugees moving around, or has attempted to do so but I didn’t bother to research

From what I understand with very limited research (and as you seem interested in this I do recommend doing some research to get a clearer picture of the legal system behind this), once you’re granted refugee status in a country you can apply for a refugee passport and travel from there according to visa rules. The only recommendation seems to be to not travel back to a home country or a country in which you have sought asylum before. You’re basically an ordinary citizen with a special passport. It’s totally possible that refugees don’t understand this because it’s not a system that may have been fully explained to them in general, hence trying to go down the asylum seeking route which they are at least partially familiar with

This doesn’t really change the conversation about society, lack of resources and possibly difficult to access services