Coronavirus Disease Outbreak COVID-19 #30

[kev1974]

Fantastic news about the surgical gowns from Turkey not meeting British standards. And yet we are happy to ease restrictions. Plus the news about BAME people being more likely to contract and die from covid 19. I'm really worried about those on the front line, it really does feel like they are cannon fodder and that no one cares. Hey but at least they get a clap on a Thursday.

See, I don't understand this about the Turkish PPE being no good. Because for weeks my facebook has been chock full of people at home making gowns, facemasks, scrubs, scrub bags, and facemask ear relief thingys, all out of bedsheets and pillowcases and old clothes or even knitted in some cases. Visors too although they tend to be 3D printed and then acetate sheets attached. Then there's been various pictures of the nurses, in NHS hospitals not random private care homes, wearing it. One in particular that I can't find now where the nurses were all decked out in stuff made from Bob The Builder duvet covers or something. There are so many posts and groups about it and people doing it, that the hospitals and care homes must be utterly inundated with the stuff by now. This isn't to criticise the individuals giving up their time and materials to make it, just wondering why it's so necessary.

So what exactly is so bad about the Turkish PPE, that makes it "completely unusable" while all the cobbled together stuff from random people at home is apparently acceptable? Doesn't make sense. There seem to be a lot of half truths and weird (political? power?) games afoot inside the NHS and government.

And even if the Turkish PPE gowns are bad enough that the NHS can't use them, why leave them sitting in a Heathrow warehouse, why not either send them back to Turkey and get a refund, or donate them to private care homes where they can be used by cleaners or visitors so not quite front line requirements, or even local councils for their cleaners or something?

And then there's the question of why the hospitals suddenly need so much PPE anyway. Yep I get that the front line does and that they're having to change it far more often. But as anyone waiting for non-Covid treatment from the NHS knows, the whole organisation has more or less thrown its hands in the air and given up on everything other than Covid, nearly all stopped for weeks now. So is there not masses of gloves and facemasks sitting in all the other departments like Podiatry that are all now closed down, that they could take?

Finally baffling, a lot of the PPE isn't hard to make (the fact that random collectives of people are doing it at home proves that). So as well as building (and then mothballing) nightingale hospitals, why hasn't the government similarly thrown together some PPE production lines. We had companies clamouring to build complicated ventilators at the start of this until the hospitals worked out they weren't needed after all. Setting up a conference centre full of people stitching together the right sort of material to make face masks and scrubs ought to be a piece of cake in comparison. They've had weeks to get something going. As its patently obvious that we can't rely on sourcing PPE from other countries now, we should already be six weeks into setting up all sorts of in-country PPE factories by now.

So much of this doesn't make sense.

 

[Jg182]

This talk of pubs opening if people sit outside is all well and good but what about when you need a wee and you're all using the same toilets.

agree, this will sound really silly but my worry is having to clear customers used cutlery, plates and glasses. Things that could be infected.

 

[KateESJ]

This talk of pubs opening if people sit outside is all well and good but what about when you need a wee and you're all using the same toilets.

I work in a pub and we have a lovely beer garden but they were planning on extending it this month to make more room, there's hardly any tables out there. We could serve food outside if people wanted to, we do already, but that's also weather depending. If we all get to work and it's pissing down, seems a bit pointless. It would possibly work for a few people at a time, but yeah. The regulars are all grumps who would rather sit inside so I can see it being more hassle than it's worth.

I can't see us being able to maintain socially distancing in a pub like mine. I'm just imagining the uproar if we have to turn people away. Alcoholics are fiesty, lol

 

[grumpycat]

Think I must be the only one missing her mother in law. We've always got along and we meet up for lunch once a week and she's my theatre buddy.

My MIL sadly passed away last year and I miss her tremendously hug yours tight when you are able to for those who can’t

 

[anon1997]

I live in Kent and my boyfriend lives in London, we moved back in with our parents to save for a house together so we’re quite used to being apart. I haven’t seen him since the end of February and I doubt we’ll see each other until June/July at the earliest. If it helps I definitely think that absence makes the heart grow fonder (I know it’s an old saying but still true!)

Waiting until June/July would be by your own choice though right? I’m not deluded but there’s NO way they won’t let you visit close family/friends until July.

 

[Jg182]

was

I work in a pub and we have a lovely beer garden but they were planning on extending it this month to make more room, there's hardly any tables out there. We could serve food outside if people wanted to, we do already, but that's also weather depending. If we all get to work and it's pissing down, seems a bit pointless. It would possibly work for a few people at a time, but yeah. The regulars are all grumps who would rather sit inside so I can see it being more hassle than it's worth.

I can't see us being able to maintain socially distancing in a pub like mine. I'm just imagining the uproar if we have to turn people away. Alcoholics are fiesty, lol

I work in hospitality where our customers are regular & older. They be wanting to sit outside, they won’t like if we change over to disposable cutlery/cups.
My worry is that there’s two members of staff on proper contracts and the rest of us are 0 hours. When it’s quiet the 0 hours staff are sent home. My worry is when we reopen they will be forced to cut some of the staff down as there won’t be enough work to go round. We rely heavily on coach trips, which I can’t imagine starting again for a while. Even things like the theatre being cancelled here till November will have a massive affect as we only rota an extra two members of staff in for them days because of the trade it brings us.
I think a lot of cut backs will be happening

 

[RachyWoo]

They’re now testing care home workers even if they don’t have symptoms.

Yeah, I noticed that when I was reading the criteria you have to meet to be able to try and get an appointment to one of the mobile testing places. My neighbours and half the people being tagged in the post aren't key workers, yet they seem to think it's a free for all

 

[Tigercat55]

I read up about how the schools in Denmark went back. They had a lot of children stay off, through parental choice. Staggered the start and finish of the days by 15 minutes, one parent was allowed to walk the child to within 2 metres of the school door and leave them there. Same with pick up. (This would never work for the younger primary years and nursery settings)
They have shortened the school day so that the children dont fatigue from the social distancing measures.
Tables set out so they are apart and not facing one another. Primary school is also holding lessons in the secondary part as they are all on one campus over there. Lots of outdoor lessons.
All primary children have to take their own equipment (scissors/pens/pencils) to stop the risk of spread through sharing.
Hand cleaning happens 8 times across the day. Everyone has to stay apart. They have adapted sports so they are non contact. No breakfast or after school clubs, staggered dinnertimes across the school and less break times.
But what works for one country and year group won't work for another.
Parents here wouldnt cope with a shorter school day for one, as although school is not childcare, many parents have no choice but to use it as such.

My husband and I are both teachers (secondary) and work about 40 minutes from where we live. Without breakfast and after school clubs, we couldn’t get to work or pick our son up from primary school on time

 

[monga]

See, I don't understand this about the Turkish PPE being no good. Because for weeks my facebook has been chock full of people at home making gowns, facemasks, scrubs, scrub bags, and facemask ear relief thingys, all out of bedsheets and pillowcases and old clothes or even knitted in some cases. Visors too although they tend to be 3D printed and then acetate sheets attached. Then there's been various pictures of the nurses, in NHS hospitals not random private care homes, wearing it. One in particular that I can't find now where the nurses were all decked out in stuff made from Bob The Builder duvet covers or something. There are so many posts and groups about it and people doing it, that the hospitals and care homes must be utterly inundated with the stuff by now. This isn't to criticise the individuals giving up their time and materials to make it, just wondering why it's so necessary.

So what exactly is so bad about the Turkish PPE, that makes it "completely unusable" while all the cobbled together stuff from random people at home is apparently acceptable? Doesn't make sense. There seem to be a lot of half truths and weird (political? power?) games afoot inside the NHS and government.

And even if the Turkish PPE gowns are bad enough that the NHS can't use them, why leave them sitting in a Heathrow warehouse, why not either send them back to Turkey and get a refund, or donate them to private care homes where they can be used by cleaners or visitors so not quite front line requirements, or even local councils for their cleaners or something?

And then there's the question of why the hospitals suddenly need so much PPE anyway. Yep I get that the front line does and that they're having to change it far more often. But as anyone waiting for non-Covid treatment from the NHS knows, the whole organisation has more or less thrown its hands in the air and given up on everything other than Covid, nearly all stopped for weeks now. So is there not masses of gloves and facemasks sitting in all the other departments like Podiatry that are all now closed down, that they could take?

Finally baffling, a lot of the PPE isn't hard to make (the fact that random collectives of people are doing it at home proves that). So as well as building (and then mothballing) nightingale hospitals, why hasn't the government similarly thrown together some PPE production lines. We had companies clamouring to build complicated ventilators at the start of this until the hospitals worked out they weren't needed after all. Setting up a conference centre full of people stitching together the right sort of material to make face masks and scrubs ought to be a piece of cake in comparison. They've had weeks to get something going. As its patently obvious that we can't rely on sourcing PPE from other countries now, we should already be six weeks into setting up all sorts of in-country PPE factories by now.

So much of this doesn't make sense.

People have been been making the PPE here too from home ,but it's just sub standard to tie them over until the proper stuff was too arrive ..The face masks have to be waterproof for a start and even people that have full proper PPE must do a full change if they remove their mask to even have a drink so it's not just a case of sewing stuff together..People have a right to ask for the proper equipment if their putting their life on the line...

 

[kev1974]

agree, this will sound really silly but my worry is having to clear customers used cutlery, plates and glasses. Things that could be infected.

To be honest with you. If it really is that easy to get infected, just from touching someone's used cutlery or plates. I don't understand why there haven't been massive outbreaks centred around trolleys in supermarkets (I know some are cleaning the handles but not all). Or the buttons to open lifts or train doors. Or petrol station pump handles. Or series of infections traceable to individuals delivering Amazon orders or crates full of supermarket shopping or Deliveroo.

I've not seen a single report of any "contact" infections. I agree that person-person direct contact such as shaking hands and hugging is probably problematic and may be why Boris and several cabinet members got it at the same time. But if person-surface-person or person-box/bag-person or person-cutlery-person was really a problem, I'd have thought we'd have seen cases of 15 people all infected by one unknowing takeaway delivery person spreader type incidents by now.

People have been been making the PPE here too from home ,but it's just sub standard to tie them over until the proper stuff was too arrive ..The face masks have to be waterproof for a start and even people that have full proper PPE must do a full change if they remove their mask to even have a drink so it's not just a case of sewing stuff together..People have a right to ask for the proper equipment if their putting their life on the line...

I hear you and agree. But in that case why can't the Turkish stuff similarly be used to tide slightly less frontline departments and organisations over, if home made stuff is OK?

 

[Blisfullmind]

This talk of pubs opening if people sit outside is all well and good but what about when you need a wee and you're all using the same toilets.

A Bush?

 

[monga]

To be honest with you. If it really is that easy to get infected, just from touching someone's used cutlery or plates. I don't understand why there haven't been massive outbreaks centred around trolleys in supermarkets (I know some are cleaning the handles but not all). Or the buttons to open lifts or train doors. Or petrol station pump handles. Or series of infections traceable to individuals delivering Amazon orders or crates full of supermarket shopping or Deliveroo.

I've not seen a single report of any "contact" infections. I agree that person-person direct contact such as shaking hands and hugging is probably problematic and may be why Boris and several cabinet members got it at the same time. But if person-surface-person or person-box/bag-person or person-cutlery-person was really a problem, I'd have thought we'd have seen cases of 15 people all infected by one unknowing takeaway delivery person spreader type incidents by now.



I hear you and agree. But in that case why can't the Turkish stuff similarly be used to tide slightly less frontline departments and organisations over, if home made stuff is OK?

Would the government not be looking to send it back for a refund?

 

[grumpy-nosy-cow]

View attachment 124842

think i might qualify for two categories ready and neither of them hunk

 

[Kermy5]

A Bush?

I've got terrible aim and an unpredictable flow.

 

[Alightened]

think i might qualify for two categories ready and neither of them hunk

Ditto

 

[Jg182]

To be honest with you. If it really is that easy to get infected, just from touching someone's used cutlery or plates. I don't understand why there haven't been massive outbreaks centred around trolleys in supermarkets (I know some are cleaning the handles but not all). Or the buttons to open lifts or train doors. Or petrol station pump handles. Or series of infections traceable to individuals delivering Amazon orders or crates full of supermarket shopping or Deliveroo.

I've not seen a single report of any "contact" infections. I agree that person-person direct contact such as shaking hands and hugging is probably problematic and may be why Boris and several cabinet members got it at the same time. But if person-surface-person or person-box/bag-person or person-cutlery-person was really a problem, I'd have thought we'd have seen cases of 15 people all infected by one unknowing takeaway delivery person spreader type incidents by now.



I hear you and agree. But in that case why can't the Turkish stuff similarly be used to tide slightly less frontline departments and organisations over, if home made stuff is OK?

Yes I completely see your point. I think it’s just hard to imagine what life will be like at work going forward. Going from somewhere which saw hundreds of people a day in quite close quarters. Having to get near to them to serve their food/clean their tables. I think Iv just started to think about all the different aspects of the job which could be a risk.
It’s hard to think of life as it is now, to potentially going back in a few weeks time.

 

[hnoz]

Would the government not be looking to send it back for a refund?

Exactly, the guardian are reporting that it is being returned and refunded.
There is a difference between someone having to use a makeshift mask (not acceptable obviously) and the government supplying PPE that isn’t effective. The latter opens them up to so many lawsuits.

 

[Dandylion1]

PP that gyms bot open till October according to daily fail...
Get in, that's where I work
If schools open in Septemeber I'll have a month of chillin out before I go back. Hopefully MIL will be making up for lost time and have the baby for abit

It’s not good if they don’t open until October especially with the government saying that the furlough will go down to 60% in July

 

[SarahGard83]

Scotland lockdown officially extended

 

[Ohflogoff]

Scotland lockdown officially extended

Good. I hope we follow suit