Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

[MrsNorthernGrinch]

When are they due back in court?

January

 

[Aberscot]

Do we know if any papers are doing live updates ?

 

[GM17]

Does anyone know anything about the other children? Seems so strange that there are no pics of them together on her Facebook. Just individual ones with her or his hands in the background…

 

[repairshoplover]

The trial was due to start today. Not seen any reporting. I’m guessing they are doing jury selection

Thought it was postponed by a couple of weeks?

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

So soz me babs we have to stay patient for some time longer. But in the meantime did you follow the Murdaugh case? If not then get ok that. That was wild

Omg thank you for all of this! It’s interesting to know the evidence will all largely be there, I had assumed that we could be waiting years tbh!

I saw that Murdaugh case and couldn’t believe the name considering the crime! I’ll go into a research vortex about that now!

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

It could have been CM that was desperate to carry his children, especially if she was besotted with him, and he just went along with it because they are both not in the right frame of mind. If they've been isolated together for years then I doubt they've been living in reality. Isolation in itself can cause poor mental health. I think they've both caused untold damage

Yes, I think both are equally culpable in terms of bringing children into the world.

 

[neroli]

I'm sure there is potential for the chosen psychiatrists to provide complex diagnoses for the pair of them. To explain and excuse why they disposed of baby Victoria as they did.

 

[Emsie]

But realistically you can't hold someone indefinitely in a mental health institution. Isn't the point that they are treated and then released? Obviously if they are untreatable that's different but for me, the worry is, she will be treated and then released. Rather than treated, then punished for her crime which is, at the least, manslaughter.
Because otherwise mental health is an excuse?

 

[thegreencow]

Has little Victoria been laid to rest yet? I can’t seem to find any confirmation online. I’d love to go down there at some point and put some flowers on her grave.

 

[Baabaablacksheep320]

Is there any evidence the baby was a live birth? Just thinking they may have been hiding from social services, but perhaps the birth went awry and they ended up running because they were scared to admit the baby didn’t make it?

 

[Whataday21]

It was in the news pretty much daily though, from early January...the first taxi driver recognised them from the news, which would have only been a day or two after the investigation was launched?

If the taxi driver saw them first week of Jan, I still question why they were not found until the last week of Feb. That's nearly 2 months.
How were they paying for the taxi fares? With their card? And the police didn't think to track their card?

 

[thisisme20]

Could be wrong but it looks like this double buggy

Ignore me, no is isn’t

 

[repairshoplover]

Hi, been lurking for ages. Just wanted to say before I catch up that has anyone
Seen a programme years ago called “protecting our children” ? It was about social workers and I remember a case of a couple with previous children taken into care, living in tents etc. I think her name was Marva

Yes I watched it. Hard to watch.

 

[SoOverIt84]

The bar for having children removed is pretty high, so whatever they’d done in the past, it had to be serious.

The weirdest thing is that Constance’s FB had a photo of her standing on a train platform holding a baby (presumably their first child) looking healthy, well groomed, nicely dressed and smiling. She looked completely normal and unremarkable. Something must have gone so badly wrong after this point, for the child to have been removed. I mean: neglect, drugs, mental health issues, chaotic and dangerous lifestyle/living conditions.

Agree, evidencing threshold to even get into the court arena is high. Immediate removal on an interim care order higher again.

All of those, can potentially be managed with robust safety plans even when level of risk meets the threshold to issue care proceedings. It might be the first was on an interim supervision order, or an interim care order in a mother and baby assessment placement or a mother and baby foster placement. She’d then have the 26 weeks or so of the proceedings before judgement made about full care order and removal.

Or like you say caring for baby and at some point later, a significant precipitating event happened that resulted in their removal.

Even with subsequent babies, all assessments would repeated so not to preempt any judgement of the court. But also, even the smallest chance of positive change is worth being curious and exploring further so when life story work is completed, they know that every chance of remaining with their birth family was assessed.

on her fb there’s bty / dav / cof - I wonder if a fourth was removed at birth and that’s why no photos

Even when removed at birth, which could be a few days, there would be the photos in the hospital. Then once removed, supervised contact is promoted, several times a week until the final hearing. After that, contact reduces to once a month until an adoption match has been found and then stops. So even if they didn’t turn up to any of supervised contact, they’d have the hospital ones.

 

[neroli]

I think antenatal care is an entirely different thing to CM’s usual own healthcare, if there’s an assumption that the baby was going to be, or might have been, removed at birth.

As it was reported that they disappeared / began moving around when she was starting to show that she was pregnant, it’s probably fairly safe to assume that she actively avoided any healthcare settings including for herself from that point.

The house could have been like that already, and the timing could have just been a coincidence.

ETA she wouldn’t actually need to be under a GP for a mental illness, you can just see a psychiatrist either NHS or privately and they can issue prescriptions. That would probably be the preferred option for someone with money, as you can pick and choose your appointments and know you’ll definitely see the same person.
With some MH conditions and meds the care needs to be overseen by a psych anyway as a GP can only prescribe to a certain level.

It would definitely have to be a private psychiatrist but somehow I can't see her as wanting to recognise having an MH issue? If indeed she has one? No money to pay the rent yet money to spend on private psych appointments?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

You can only hail down black cabs and if I was on the run that’s the last thing I’d want to do tbh! The demographic of black cab drivers is very different to minicab in east London/suburbia and I’d suspect a black cab driver to be more likely to listen to news/talk radio all day and be active on Twitter thus more likely to have heard of their case, so it would undoubtedly be more risky for them. Obvs they couldn’t use Uber without a linked bank account so they must have called local minicab firms, or some of them allow you to book by an app which is never the best ngl lol.

Ok, yes. I can see why they’d want, non-smart, burner phones to call taxis etc.
Maybe I’ve been watching too much TV, but drug dealers and criminals use these phones too, plus they’re the type you would smuggle into prison. MG might be familiar with them.
From my extensive Hunted watching, a trace/recording could be put on known numbers they might contact (friends, family) to try and locate them, but they’d probably be too paranoid and isolated to contact anyone known.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

@Dogmuck thank you for that post.

The other option could be that she takes the blame for this, blames it all on maternal/post partum pyschosis.... and say that she forced him to go along with it? Could she plead guilty on the grounds of diminished responsibility meaning that they both get very small if any sentences... or would they have already needed to enter these pleas?

 

[GM17]

Has she been with him a while? I wasn't sure. Yes the child/ren are mixed race.

I understood that’s why she is estranged from her family and friends and it would be 7-8 years ago.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

Maybe their counsel are thinking it won’t be as fresh in the publics mind and so less bad will towards them

I do think that the majority will have forgotten all the coverage and now might just recognise their names but not really remember much

 

[Aberscot]

Deleted by posters request