Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #6

[Emsie]

Although she was in a placement with the baby she wouldn't have been on like a lockdown would she. Assuming she would have been free to care for herself and the baby, go out with the baby etc. She's not a child, she's a grown woman. So she was probably still able to see MG.
As I said I don't think MG being a SO was the problem. The parenting, living in a tent in winter was.
I think she was engaging for engagement sake but she wasn't really taking it on board and then when SS realised she wasn't they got moving with severing the children from her.
All she needed to do was get a house and engage properly. Unless more comes out about physical harm or abuse, not feeding them etc.
But an easy win really, it's not she had addictions (that we know of) to kick

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I think the photographs of the children on Facebook, were taken when they were in care on a contact visit.

Some of them, but not the train station one

 

[Aberscot]

We know MG had to sign register ( I think it was weekly?) and stopped attending around Xmas time so regardless of baby the police would have been looking for him anyway. Do we know how long he had to sign on for was it life ?
So were the police on lookout for him before car went on fire and placenta discovered?
and I know we have discussed it before but are them Taking drugs definitely ruled out

 

[Ray_of_Sunshine]

the previous thread included reasonings they’d had the children removed, it was covered in the court timeline. As well as the lack of medical care and the disgusting living conditions in the tent, Constance had, for one of the children, Indeed spent some time alone in some kind of mother and baby foster care. The professionals monitoring her had warned her that her sleeping practises were unsafe, so there was a history of this.

Yes thanks I was on the previous thread and also the ones before that. None of these reasonings are concrete though are they? I was just speculating from another angle.

 

[Hyacinthsquash]

Although she was in a placement with the baby she wouldn't have been on like a lockdown would she. Assuming she would have been free to care for herself and the baby, go out with the baby etc. She's not a child, she's a grown woman. So she was probably still able to see MG.
As I said I don't think MG being a SO was the problem. The parenting, living in a tent in winter was.
I think she was engaging for engagement sake but she wasn't really taking it on board and then when SS realised she wasn't they got moving with severing the children from her.
All she needed to do was get a house and engage properly. Unless more comes out about physical harm or abuse, not feeding them etc.
But an easy win really, it's not she had addictions (that we know of) to kick

Depends on the reason for placement. Some mothers are not allowed to care for baby alone and will be told they cannot contact baby’s father (or their partner depending on circumstances) otherwise it will mean immediate intervention. It’s hard to say specifically without knowing more and whether MG was considered a risk to the child or Constance herself.

 

[Ray_of_Sunshine]

I must have totally missed this! Do you know where roughly in the thread?

Same!

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Random.
‘Only you can redeem yourself’ as said by Bob Marley to the guy who shot him years earlier.
Taken from the excellent One Love film we seen last night. Highly recommended.
Redemption coming from a place of inner change.
Stuck out as these 2 have not redeemed themselves after any of their multiple chances.

 

[Multi-21]

We know MG had to sign register ( I think it was weekly?) and stopped attending around Xmas time so regardless of baby the police would have been looking for him anyway. Do we know how long he had to sign on for was it life ?
So were the police on lookout for him before car went on fire and placenta discovered?
and I know we have discussed it before but are them Taking drugs definitely ruled out

I might be wrong but I’ve thought if you failed to attend there were be a marker on you so if the police came across you it would flag up, but they wouldn’t be actively looking. Just something I feel like would have gone the way of budget cuts

 

[Ray_of_Sunshine]

This is what I could work out from the info shared originally

View attachment 2763277

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #3

So if they paid in cash for everything does this mean all the reports from the taxi, the restaurant, shops, supermarkets, hotels were from individual reports each time? It's also quite odd that at least one hotel let them pay in cash. They usually ask for a card incase you steal anything or...

tattle.life

The first - FF - is confusing. Born winter 2017.
It seems that child was already 1-2 years old when they were discovered in the tent? You could understand why CM and MG thought they’d be okay in a tent if so, having possibly done it for over a year.

It doesn’t seem clear when GG and HH were born. Was it you who said earlier on that they might be twins? Less detail on them because more easy to identify. However, it was Jan 2020 at the latest as care proceedings were started for FF. GG, HH in Jan 2020 - FF was just two at this point.
On top of care proceedings, legal proceedings were started in 2019.

All of the photos on her FB were shared in Feb 2020. On there are BTY (boy) DAV (girl) and COF (I think boy) so must be FF, GG, HH.

Then she was pregnant again in 2021 - II. She was living in a house or flat at this time as she hid behind the door. This is the baby she then left hospital without. I don’t know if it’s clumsy wording by the journalist, but ‘young baby’ is different to ‘newborn’ for me.

View attachment 2763288View attachment 2763289View attachment 2763290

For the young baby comment it reads to me that they haven’t made a clumsy mistake but that the baby was admitted to a hospital perhaps? For whatever reason. And it’s not about when he/she was born. I’m guessing at this point she wasn’t hiding her identity and so the hospital knew her history/knew the child was subject to (only my opinion) a child protection plan or the like. And so CM was warned not to leave him/her but did so anyway

She never had any intention of helping herself is what I think all of this shows - she was totally arrogant and thought she knew best.
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In one of my previous roles I had to frequently liaise with the dept of the police who monitored sex offenders and inform them if someone was admitted to hospital. The police often said they'd wondered where they were as they lost track of them

I guess there’s just way too many to keep tabs on, rendering the register almost useless in my opinion. So many fall through the cracks - which suits them of course! I wonder if they were even that bothered he hadn’t signed on. They must’ve known he was a transient - a lot of them are for obvious reasons.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

I might be wrong but I’ve thought if you failed to attend there were be a marker on you so if the police came across you it would flag up, but they wouldn’t be actively looking. Just something I feel like would have gone the way of budget cuts

Agree. They can’t possibly go looking every time, the person could be anywhere. Maybe exceptions for someone with a concern of likely to repeat it, but MG seems to have been out of trouble (children notwithstanding).

It said he presented at the police station last on Boxing Day - that’s when they were at the holiday cottage. Wonder how far that was from where they were actually living to that point.

 

[sebanna]

If she had had three children removed, I'm surprised they let her keep the fourth. Unless she hid that child's birth.

If she was worried about losing another baby to social services than why risk leaving the baby in hospital? and then refuse to do a covid test rather then see your baby. Doesn't make sense.

There must have been serious neglect/risk to the first three for them to be removed.

 

[Ray_of_Sunshine]

Some of them, but not the train station one

I couldn’t see any obvious contact centre photos tbh I must’ve missed this too 🫣 don’t shoot me! The album on fb - there is only one photo that could be contact centre I suppose but I honestly thought it was just a waiting room somewhere

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

For the young baby comment it reads to me that they haven’t made a clumsy mistake but that the baby was admitted to a hospital perhaps? For whatever reason. And it’s not about when he/she was born. I’m guessing at this point she wasn’t hiding her identity and so the hospital knew her history/knew the child was subject to (only my opinion) a child protection plan or the like. And so CM was warned not to leave him/her but did so anyway

She never had any intention of helping herself is what I think all of this shows - she was totally arrogant and thought she knew best.
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I guess there’s just way too many to keep tabs on, rendering the register almost useless in my opinion. So many fall through the cracks - which suits them of course! I wonder if they were even that bothered he hadn’t signed on. They must’ve known he was a transient - a lot of them are for obvious reasons.

Yes that’s what I think too. They’d have said newborn, and there’s ambiguity as they haven’t said she was discharged or self-discharged - just that she left. They’re saying something without saying it.

That was child II 2021 after child FF was born in 2017. The middle two must have been born during that gap, and maybe taken immediately into care - they were under care proceedings Jan 2020 which is probably when they were born.

I suspect that she went to hospital with II and before that no one knew she was pregnant.
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If she had had three children removed, I'm surprised they let her keep the fourth. Unless she hid that child's birth.

If she was worried about losing another baby to social services than why risk leaving the baby in hospital? and then refuse to do a covid test rather then see your baby. Doesn't make sense.

There must have been serious neglect/risk to the first three for them to be removed.

I’d bet they refused her taking the baby/child so she left then realised what she’d done. Maybe she claimed she thought she had open access if the child was an inpatient. Either way I wouldn’t have left for a moment.

With the level of paranoia and warped beliefs one or both might have been on the page of Covid conspiracy theories.

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I couldn’t see any obvious contact centre photos tbh I must’ve missed this too 🫣 don’t shoot me! The album on fb - there is only one photo that could be contact centre I suppose but I honestly thought it was just a waiting room somewhere

Me too! There’s one that could be, with chairs in the background. But there’s a few outside on the grass smiling and relaxed - they don’t strike me as managed contact but I don’t have any experience of it to be sure! I think the outside photos must be the first child.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

If there are a set of twins, pregnancy and birth complications are much more likely, so even CM may have found seeking medical attention a necessity.
I found t fancy my chances ‘free birthing’ twins. Or more pertinent, the twin’s chances.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

It's mentioned in the podcast. Episode 2 I believe.


With how anti SS/authority she now is and how obsessed she is with MG i was actually quite shocked. It's hard to imagine her agreeing to go into foster care with her baby. I think this was with the first baby. So at some point she was engaging with social services. So we have gone from engaging with SS to then abandoning the 4th baby in the hospital to going on the run with Victoria.

Through my work I've known a few mothers who have been placed into foster care with their babies/Children. These mothers had really neglectful abusive childhoods themselves and just didn't have the skills/knowledge needed to take good care of their baby even though they wanted to. And the placement gave them the chance to learn in a safe environment and as far as I know they all went on to keep their children afterwards.

But obviously it's going to come down to how much the mum wants to learn/engage ect I bet CM was hard work for the foster parents she doesn't seem to be someone who would take being told she is doing something wrong/unsafe well.

OH thank you! What am I like, re reading a whole 54 page thread to find it when I’d heard it on the podcast
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Re the mother and baby unit etc I wonder if they were inconsistent with their behaviour but it also deteriorated over time; so maybe there were times they tried to engage but then either failed or get fed up, or got more and more into their conspiracies. Constance had obviously been reading some shite and thought she knew the law around SS well enough to evade committing a crime (she’s too thick to really understand what she’s on about though- typical conspiracy theorist)

I have to say I’d assume that as MG checked into a police station shortly before they went on the run that meant he was in the routine of doing it. Whilst him not checking in wouldn’t have launched a manhunt, the consequences when he was caught (and these people have a tendency to get caught, if only for disordered rubbish like driving without insurance) could’ve been severe.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

If there are a set of twins, pregnancy and birth complications are much more likely, so even CM may have found seeking medical attention a necessity.
I found t fancy my chances ‘free birthing’ twins. Or more pertinent, the twin’s chances.

She may not have known it was twins if no antenatal care.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

She may not have known it was twins if no antenatal care.

True, but there are often indications. Size, tendency to swollen extremities in later pregnancy, more intense morning sickness etc.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

True, but there are often indications. Size, tendency to swollen extremities in later pregnancy, more intense morning sickness etc.

And she’d had a previous singleton pregnancy so would potentially be able to realise the movements of 2 babies vs 1 - or see/feel externally the outlines of body parts later on making it obvious it wasn’t just one.

 

[WurstHunde]

The thing is, she didn’t lose her first three till 2020 so why do people think the photos are from contact centres? I would assume they were taken before she lost them; the ages would seem to fit.

 

[DianaBanana]

Saw this on another site, someone else reporting from the court. He says it was the two of them that abandoned the baby at the hospital after it was born. I don’t think I’ve seen that reported anywhere else though, so not sure if it’s reliable (and his voice is very boring):

‘we don't know as much about the births of the other children but we do know that one of the children, after it was born in the hospital, Marten discharged herself from hospital, her and Gordon left the hospital without the baby and the next day they came back for the baby’