So if they remain in custody theirs a chance that if they ever get found guilty enough time could have been served on remand to cover a sentance at the lower end at sentancing?
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The CPS have 7 days to decide if they will re-try the case.
How can babyVictoria get justice now? That’s what everyone hoped for
I hope those vile toxic creatures aren’t allowed to just walk away, it’s awful
I hope those vile toxic creatures aren’t allowed to just walk away, it’s awful
Joining to say how upsetting this is that Baby Victoria won't get the justice she deserves and I'm honestly very concerned that if there isn't a retrial, they will be free and pregnant and this whole ordeal will happen again.
Oh this is just so infuriating. I don't blame the jury, it was hard to follow the case from the outside with all the breaks, let alone from the inside, losing jury members etc.
I can't believe Connie Claw Clip filibustered her own trial.
I can't believe Connie Claw Clip filibustered her own trial.
She’ll be on the run with another baby by this time next year.
If only they would learn. If they could accept Victoria's death was their fault and decide not procreate again. However this result will make them think their actions were justified all alone.
I haven’t caught up yet.
I am honestly so upset that it’s come to this. They will have another baby. And another. And another.
They won’t engage with any support offered.
The cycle will continue.
I don’t blame the jury at all. They have heard details about all sorts of things and if they couldn’t reach a verdict, then it maybe isn’t as black and white as it appears from the outside.
We here have also had the absolutely invaluable space to discuss, disagree, listen to others’ thoughts and opinions, change our minds, change them back again. And to make assumptions on what we didn’t know.
I hope they are given sentences for concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice, because that is what the judge said wasn’t in question. HOWEVER - surely it still has to be formally decided by the jury? If they didn’t agree on secretly disposing of the body (or similar wording) then they couldn’t have found guilty on perverting the course of justice, could they?
It may also be kept under reporting restrictions in case they do go for a retrial, because guilty verdicts could influence a new jury.
It’s so hard. I have felt all along that the body was kept because, when it came to it, they couldn’t go through with whatever plans they had, but the fact of not admitting to where she was absolutely also shows (IMO) that at that point they concealed her body to avoid charges.
I am honestly so upset that it’s come to this. They will have another baby. And another. And another.
They won’t engage with any support offered.
The cycle will continue.
I don’t blame the jury at all. They have heard details about all sorts of things and if they couldn’t reach a verdict, then it maybe isn’t as black and white as it appears from the outside.
We here have also had the absolutely invaluable space to discuss, disagree, listen to others’ thoughts and opinions, change our minds, change them back again. And to make assumptions on what we didn’t know.
I hope they are given sentences for concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice, because that is what the judge said wasn’t in question. HOWEVER - surely it still has to be formally decided by the jury? If they didn’t agree on secretly disposing of the body (or similar wording) then they couldn’t have found guilty on perverting the course of justice, could they?
It may also be kept under reporting restrictions in case they do go for a retrial, because guilty verdicts could influence a new jury.
It’s so hard. I have felt all along that the body was kept because, when it came to it, they couldn’t go through with whatever plans they had, but the fact of not admitting to where she was absolutely also shows (IMO) that at that point they concealed her body to avoid charges.
If they reached a verdict on some charges then they should stand. It’s like the Letby case where one charge couldn’t be decided so there’s a retrial just on that one.
With Letby though, the charges were all on different crimes (babies
) so I think each one was standalone in effect.This time all the charges were the same crime. I don’t know if that makes a difference.
I was watching the one o'clock news and the reporter said, the judge asked the jury if they had a verdict on the manslaughter charge. No mention of the other charges. They must have been found guilty of the other charges as they all follow on. Unless its the way its been reported.
In the Lucy Letby trial, there was about six hung verdicts. She was sent to prison for the guilty verdicts and the CPS are just retrialling one charge at the moment.
In the Lucy Letby trial, there was about six hung verdicts. She was sent to prison for the guilty verdicts and the CPS are just retrialling one charge at the moment.
What a joke. I sincerely hope the CPS decide to do a re trial if they don’t I can’t imagine they’ll wait much longer to have another and then even probably do a ‘their story’ type of thing with some newspaper and I don’t think I can stomach reading that.
It may be too soon to look at it this way but my opinion based on the limited reporting that we had was that the prosecution over complicated things. I don’t think there was compelling evidence that the dates of birth/ death that CM and MG gave were wrong and I don’t think all of the stuff about Co-sleeping was that relevant. I think a more streamlined argument that they behaved recklessly despite knowing the risks would have led to a guilty verdict. Even if the prosecution had agreed that Victoria was smothered rather than froze, it still could have been argued that that was totally foreseeable and as a result of her parents’ neglect.
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Good point. In that case I’m not sure.With Letby though, the charges were all on different crimes (babies
This time all the charges were the same crime. I don’t know if that makes a difference.
I agree. The bones of CM testiomy may well have been correct. She went to sleep with the baby breastfeeding under the thick coat and woke to find she had accidentally suffocated her. However it wasn't an unforseen accident and Victoria was permanently at risk as her baby's ran from the authorities which would have kept her safe.
Hopefully it does go to a re-trial but it is so many resources wasted already trying to get this trial. They can't walk free, poor baby Victoria died because of their actions. If she was placed in care she would be alive and thriving. Are they going to be free to have more children? When does the cycle end? Obviously there has been a lot more discussed in court but I feel they should be prosecuted for allowing it to happen.
Exactly, I think the jury may have been confused that they had to agree with CPS version of events, but it didn't matter whether Victoria died of hypothermia OR suffocation, both were neglectful. She wasn't cosleeping in a bed having mitigated the risks, she had her in her thick coat while she sat upright in a TENT. Likewise all the stuff about when she was born - it really didn't matter. It was all just noise.
Does anyone know what factors they look at when deciding whether or not to retrial?
I hope they do as it’s absolutely in the public interest to prosecute. It’s not like they can swear an oath to cooperate with social services if they get pregnant again. If they don’t retrial then when would it end?
I hope they do as it’s absolutely in the public interest to prosecute. It’s not like they can swear an oath to cooperate with social services if they get pregnant again. If they don’t retrial then when would it end?