Having read multiple articles to the inquest today, as much as I feel sorry for Caroline (and no person should ever feel that shit about themselves that they are suicidal or unfortunately end their life), it was stated in the inquest and confirmed that Caroline did beat her ex boyfriend up and she did give him an injury to his head - whatever happened. If this were a man who was accused of DV, I guarantee things would play out much differently and we wouldn't have the constant "be kind" and outpouring of sympathies for Caroline. I feel awful for her family and friends and can't think what they may be going through and thinking, but to blame it all on the press and showbiz - Caroline must have known she had issues and could have tried to get them sorted with the money she had and knowing one day her actions could have catastrophic consequences like this incident. It is totally unfair to downplay her actions differently just because she ended her life and was a female. Domestic violence isn't okay what ever gender you are.
- Notice
Moley1
Chatty Member
This is a very sad story, but no sadder than the stories of the other countless suicides that happen all the time. It gets coverage because the person involved is a “celebrity” but what of the “ordinary” who also decide that they can’t go on any longer?
I can understand her hurt, but for he mother to say that the case only went ahead because she was a “celebrity” is total nonsense. You only have to look at the magistrate’s court lists every day to see that hundreds of “ordinary” people are charged with domestic violences offences all over the country.
For her to use an official public forum to lay a guilt trip on a police officer who was only doing their duty was appalling behaviour.
if you hit someone over the head with a hard object whilst they are sleeping to the extent that you draw blood, you must expect to face the legal consequences, whether you are famous or not.
We, of course, will never know what would have happened if the case had been dropped, but given her history there is every chance that it could have happened again in the future. Had she ended up seriously injuring someone, that police officer would have been hounded for making the wrong decision.
This was an opportunity for Caroline to face up to her demons and maybe finally get the help she needed to get her life back on track. Sadly she took another option. Her mother and her family need to understand that this is all down to Caroline herself, not the police and not the CPS. Whilst it must be awful to be hounded by the media, she wasn’t the first and she won’t be the last.
The thing is, if you don’t want to end up in this situation, if it gets to the point where you are out of control, seek proper help. You don’t end up in court and all over the papers if you don’t assault people.
It may sound harsh, but Caroline’s mother needs to understand that Caroline was responsible for her own actions.
I can understand her hurt, but for he mother to say that the case only went ahead because she was a “celebrity” is total nonsense. You only have to look at the magistrate’s court lists every day to see that hundreds of “ordinary” people are charged with domestic violences offences all over the country.
For her to use an official public forum to lay a guilt trip on a police officer who was only doing their duty was appalling behaviour.
if you hit someone over the head with a hard object whilst they are sleeping to the extent that you draw blood, you must expect to face the legal consequences, whether you are famous or not.
We, of course, will never know what would have happened if the case had been dropped, but given her history there is every chance that it could have happened again in the future. Had she ended up seriously injuring someone, that police officer would have been hounded for making the wrong decision.
This was an opportunity for Caroline to face up to her demons and maybe finally get the help she needed to get her life back on track. Sadly she took another option. Her mother and her family need to understand that this is all down to Caroline herself, not the police and not the CPS. Whilst it must be awful to be hounded by the media, she wasn’t the first and she won’t be the last.
The thing is, if you don’t want to end up in this situation, if it gets to the point where you are out of control, seek proper help. You don’t end up in court and all over the papers if you don’t assault people.
It may sound harsh, but Caroline’s mother needs to understand that Caroline was responsible for her own actions.
paigelemonade
VIP Member
People need to keep PC Harper’s name out of this. He was a brave and honourable man who died serving and protecting us all. This isn’t in any way a thread about him and he doesn’t deserve to be mentioned on a gossip website like this, I would hate for this to come up when people google him. Very bad taste imo. The murders who killed him deserved much longer than they got and the way they acted in and out of court is disgustingly inhuman. His wife did not demand anything, she wrote a heartfelt letter about her feelings surrounding him getting the justice he deserved and asked for the public to share in spreading the message, nearly all of whom were already happy to do so. Now she’s campaigning for a law in his name to protect our protectors which is wonderful. Don’t mention him on here. He was such a courageous officer and doesn’t need to be bought up in this discussion at all imo.
GrunkaLunka
VIP Member
This bloke was the victim of a violent crime. He'd just been beaten and assaulted. I don't think it's vile, unforgivable, nor do I think he should be ashamed that he took a photo of the scene and sent it to a friend. It might not have been the best decision, with hindsight and it does look the friend leaked the photo but I doubt he was thinking particularly clearly at that point. He was probably scared and shaken up. Maybe couldn't believe what had just happened to him and wanted to share it with someone. Victim blaming is a really awful phenomenon which needs to end now.
Whatsallthis
VIP Member
So Lewis posted this after her passing “I will be your voice... I will get all the answers” but then doesn’t even attend the inquest and opts to send a letter instead? Possibly because it was about to be made public that is was him who sent on the photos that were leaked to the press?
And did he really need to spend the night at Lottie Tomlinsons when this was happening today? Just so disrespectful of you ask me.
And did he really need to spend the night at Lottie Tomlinsons when this was happening today? Just so disrespectful of you ask me.
Attachments
I totally get why Caroline’s mum would be looking for someone to blame. On the surface, Caroline had everything to live for - and to hear that cps initially only wanted to caution her, to then find out that they were going ahead with a trial, I would imagine its natural to look for someone to blame, and to pinpoint that as being the cause - if they hadn’t gone ahead and wanted to take it to trial, then Caroline may not have died. My daughter died - she was very premature and had everything stacked against her but still, I blamed the consultant, the midwife, the hospital - if only they had got her out earlier, if only they had tried to keep her in, all the if onlys - maybe a form of denial, a part of grief. I imagine if I was Caroline’s mum, I would feel exactly the same. When really, we will never know. No one will know how bad she must have been feeling, what else may have pushed her to end everything, it’s so desperately sad.
Begborrowsteal
VIP Member
To ramble on that suicide is abuse to loved ones and is selfish.. fucking, WOW. Being suicidal is quite literally torture. You give up your fight for life. Its an incredibly scary and conflicting place to be. Mental illness should NOT be judged in that way.
Phil Anne Throw Pee
VIP Member
This might be unpopular, but I hate the whole 'be kind' 'movement'. It seems to have been hijacked by Z listers who scream it every time someone happens to point out that posting a trillion filtered bikini shots every day is perhaps a bit narcissistic. Of course we should all be kind by default but mainly the ones screaming it the loudest are the ones LEAST likely to be practicing what they preach.
RedMagnolia
VIP Member
Fathers 4 Justice are a horrible group of men who, in most cases, have rightly been denied access to their children. The Family Court rarely deny fathers the right to see their children without there being a damn good reason why they shouldn't.
I kind of agree about KK selling the private messages from Caroline though, she could have kept those to herself, it can't have made things any easier for Caroline's family in their grief.
I kind of agree about KK selling the private messages from Caroline though, she could have kept those to herself, it can't have made things any easier for Caroline's family in their grief.
freda19
VIP Member
Really? Are you serious?
I can honestly say that I don't know any women who would ever resort to violence, despite at least half a dozen(probably more on the quiet) in my circle having caught their partners cheating in some form.They just deal with it like adults rather than like 16 yr old gang members.
She battered him, was charged and because she was mentally fragile she couldn't face the consequences. That's it. It's truly sad but there is no point in dressing it up or excusing it with claims of 9 out of 10 women would do the same. There's a door in every home ... you either pack your bag and walk out through it or pack his bags and slam the door on his arse as he leaves. The talking can come later when both parties are calm. Violence should never enter into it at any stage. Never.
Notredamn
VIP Member
She found text and threw his phone at him. He made a calculation, knowing how vulnerable she was and told her, 'you're fucked', rang the police and sent humiliating photos of the scene of her self harming to whoever. No doubt she was hard work, but did she have ANYONE who had her best interests at heart in her life other than family?
Despite it all, she still wanted to be with him. She would accept any old shit, she thought so little of herself. Didn't think she was good enough for anything, not even life.
And even in death, all the gory details are printed for no good reason at all. She'd have been so embarrassed.
Despite it all, she still wanted to be with him. She would accept any old shit, she thought so little of herself. Didn't think she was good enough for anything, not even life.
And even in death, all the gory details are printed for no good reason at all. She'd have been so embarrassed.
Dirty Joan
Well-known member
Kind of tacky to post pics, imo. Can’t they leave it out for one day?
one minute they’re all “social media is a scourge”, they next they’re uploading pics of the funeral afters
YellowLadybird
Chatty Member
One thing I struggle with in this case is the general message that it sends about suicide. I worked with a lot of people in mental health crisis as a nurse, although I would by no means consider myself an expert.
When Thirteen Reasons Why came out a few years ago, and Hannah was pictured using her suicide in part to get 'revenge' on those around her, there was UPROAR. Everyone seemed to be talking about the terrible message this was sending to young people, that suicide was in any way a solution to your problems and that you could use it to take control of the narrative about yourself. There was a girl at my school who killed herself aged about 15, and after an initial sadness the whole case just faded from most people's minds. I remember thinking that the fact everyone was still so focussed on Hannah so long after she had died was completely unrealistic.
That seems to be exactly what has happened with Caroline. By ending her life when she did, she has become a tragic figure and garnered all of the sympathy. Before she died, she was a pariah: a domestic abuser, her career over. Now she is seen as the victim of a predatory court case (whether or not that is true I don't know) and remembered far more for the positive things that she did in the spotlight. Episodes of shows are being dedicated to her, and numerous celebrities have voiced their sympathy. I cannot imagine that if she had lived and been tried for domestic assault that she would have ever come back to the point of being seen so positively in the media.
I worry about the message this sends to vulnerable individuals, that suicide is a 'solution' to your problems and can avoid bringing shame on your family and loved ones. No one seems to be talking about this when it comes to Caroline.
When Thirteen Reasons Why came out a few years ago, and Hannah was pictured using her suicide in part to get 'revenge' on those around her, there was UPROAR. Everyone seemed to be talking about the terrible message this was sending to young people, that suicide was in any way a solution to your problems and that you could use it to take control of the narrative about yourself. There was a girl at my school who killed herself aged about 15, and after an initial sadness the whole case just faded from most people's minds. I remember thinking that the fact everyone was still so focussed on Hannah so long after she had died was completely unrealistic.
That seems to be exactly what has happened with Caroline. By ending her life when she did, she has become a tragic figure and garnered all of the sympathy. Before she died, she was a pariah: a domestic abuser, her career over. Now she is seen as the victim of a predatory court case (whether or not that is true I don't know) and remembered far more for the positive things that she did in the spotlight. Episodes of shows are being dedicated to her, and numerous celebrities have voiced their sympathy. I cannot imagine that if she had lived and been tried for domestic assault that she would have ever come back to the point of being seen so positively in the media.
I worry about the message this sends to vulnerable individuals, that suicide is a 'solution' to your problems and can avoid bringing shame on your family and loved ones. No one seems to be talking about this when it comes to Caroline.
Patsy Stone
Chatty Member
Giving evidence via videolink, Mollie Grosberg explained why they avoided calling the police, and expressed her frustration over Caroline refusing to go to hospital.
She said: “We were obviously very scared about getting the police involved. She was trying to explain. It was agreed she wasn’t going (to hospital) and I got very angry and shouted, I said this was ridiculous.”
When asked whether Caroline pushed her friends away when she needed them most, Mollie replied: “Yes. Every time I left her for half an hour she would do something. It feels like she needed help.”
“She must’ve said ‘no-one will every understand what I’m going through’ ten times that morning. She was so scared to go to prison, of the police, the press … it was too much. All she cared about was everybody else being affected.”
Caroline’s friends ended up spending the night with her, but left the next morning at around 10.30am as the presenter was angry with them for calling an ambulance the night before.
Lou told the court: “Caroline spoke to her family about coming the next day because she wanted us to leave, she was quite angry with us. She didn’t want us there.”
I can’t help but feel so sad for her friends reading this. It sounded like Caroline was clearly very upset with her friends for calling an ambulance due to the clear emotional distress she was in even though they did the right thing by doing so. I’m sure they think all the time ‘what if’ we had just stayed with her that morning, it would be torturous. Lives can’t be lived with ‘what ifs’. Mollie says she got very frustrated when the paramedics were there and shouted it was ridiculous - whether it was aimed at them or Caroline it looks like those closest to her were too at a breaking point. Her sister said paramedics had been called on 4 separate occasions and as Mollie says above she couldn’t leave her alone for even half an hour without her doing something. I believe as sad as it is if she’d hadn’t have killed herself that day she would have another day. It was clearly constantly on her mind she wanted to end her life. She needed serious help but it was pushed away by her as she felt shame. It’s such a sad situation for all involved
She said: “We were obviously very scared about getting the police involved. She was trying to explain. It was agreed she wasn’t going (to hospital) and I got very angry and shouted, I said this was ridiculous.”
When asked whether Caroline pushed her friends away when she needed them most, Mollie replied: “Yes. Every time I left her for half an hour she would do something. It feels like she needed help.”
“She must’ve said ‘no-one will every understand what I’m going through’ ten times that morning. She was so scared to go to prison, of the police, the press … it was too much. All she cared about was everybody else being affected.”
Caroline’s friends ended up spending the night with her, but left the next morning at around 10.30am as the presenter was angry with them for calling an ambulance the night before.
Lou told the court: “Caroline spoke to her family about coming the next day because she wanted us to leave, she was quite angry with us. She didn’t want us there.”
I can’t help but feel so sad for her friends reading this. It sounded like Caroline was clearly very upset with her friends for calling an ambulance due to the clear emotional distress she was in even though they did the right thing by doing so. I’m sure they think all the time ‘what if’ we had just stayed with her that morning, it would be torturous. Lives can’t be lived with ‘what ifs’. Mollie says she got very frustrated when the paramedics were there and shouted it was ridiculous - whether it was aimed at them or Caroline it looks like those closest to her were too at a breaking point. Her sister said paramedics had been called on 4 separate occasions and as Mollie says above she couldn’t leave her alone for even half an hour without her doing something. I believe as sad as it is if she’d hadn’t have killed herself that day she would have another day. It was clearly constantly on her mind she wanted to end her life. She needed serious help but it was pushed away by her as she felt shame. It’s such a sad situation for all involved
RosePetals
Chatty Member
What exactly is mutton dressed as lamb? How can normal clothes be assigned into some sort of age category? I was going to say I thought she often looked nice and was going to leave it at that but then what does it bloody matter what I or anyone thinks about her clothing?
She never wore anything offensive so I genuinely don't know why it has any relevance seeing as unfortunately she's not been here to dress as mutton or lamb for 6 months now.
I honestly want to know what possesses someone to come onto a thread about a woman who has taken her own life and leave comments about bullying vibes and sexist comments about clothing. The woman's dead what do you think your comment could add to the discussion apart from making you look heartless?
So many questions
Sarahjay01
New member
I've been in an abusive relationship, my abuser often threatened suicide to me & his friends, and attempted it on more than one occasion, this was always when he didnt get his own way, or when he had done something wrong and needed to shift the blame. If our relationship had of been played out to the press like this has, id of looked like heartless and people would have said "he never should have been left alone in that state of vulnerability" but the fact is this probably happened on several occasions and being involved with someone threatening suicide in a pattern is emotionally draining for the people involved who also have families and lives to live, I'm sure they will be filled with regret and what ifs but really they probably exhausted all options. Sad for everyone involved.
Before anyone starts, I was never a CF fan, but if anyone had read her book (which I did out of curiosity of why someone would have taken their life) she was very insecure from an early age and being a twin didn’t help. Also every BF she had been with, cheated on her. I doubt that Caroline trusted anyone. Yes, she had her insecurities that manifested.. but who doesn’t when their trust is betrayed?
She shouldn’t have hit out.. she should have told him to hop it and fxck off.
Lewis is an absolute shite and will milk this in years to come, with a book or serialisation in the Sunday papers.
I feel sorry for Lottie, he’s a fame hungry leach.. any news is good news for him, hence the selfish display of staying with Lottie whilst this was going on for the two days. Zero respect for Caroline or her family.
Imagine ending your life for an utter twat like that.
She could have admitted it all and turned it around. No one deserves to lose their life.
We are here for a good time, not a long time.
She shouldn’t have hit out.. she should have told him to hop it and fxck off.
Lewis is an absolute shite and will milk this in years to come, with a book or serialisation in the Sunday papers.
I feel sorry for Lottie, he’s a fame hungry leach.. any news is good news for him, hence the selfish display of staying with Lottie whilst this was going on for the two days. Zero respect for Caroline or her family.
Imagine ending your life for an utter twat like that.
She could have admitted it all and turned it around. No one deserves to lose their life.
We are here for a good time, not a long time.
Persephonehasreturned
Well-known member
Regarding Caroline’s family and specifically her mother - she was a 40 year old woman. Who is to know how much they knew of her struggles with mental health, alcohol, violence?
I know during periods where my mental health isn’t great, when I do things I am ashamed of, I don’t share that with my family. I’d say I have a close family, but often the desire to not have someone’s perception of you change is a massive issue for people struggling with MH.
Her family might have known she could be “a bit fiery”, “loved a wine” “was a bit intense sometimes” etc. They quite easily didn’t know that she was as volatile, fragile and quite frankly dangerous to herself and others she was. The shock of finding out what they thought they knew about their daughter, sister would make the grief worse because they’ll be asking themselves what would be different if they had known, why did she not tell them etc. Caroline’s mother did not behave well placing the blame at people who were doing their job however I think I can understand why. I feel terribly sorry for them as a family.
I know during periods where my mental health isn’t great, when I do things I am ashamed of, I don’t share that with my family. I’d say I have a close family, but often the desire to not have someone’s perception of you change is a massive issue for people struggling with MH.
Her family might have known she could be “a bit fiery”, “loved a wine” “was a bit intense sometimes” etc. They quite easily didn’t know that she was as volatile, fragile and quite frankly dangerous to herself and others she was. The shock of finding out what they thought they knew about their daughter, sister would make the grief worse because they’ll be asking themselves what would be different if they had known, why did she not tell them etc. Caroline’s mother did not behave well placing the blame at people who were doing their job however I think I can understand why. I feel terribly sorry for them as a family.
GalaxyGirl70
VIP Member
Fully agree, I'm finding all the coverage a little bit sickening today. I can understand why her family need someone to blame, but they also need to take account of an adult woman making some very poor life choices.
