Caroline Flack

[Glaschelle]

We've all said this before but can you imagine the headlines if the Lewis guy had thrown something at Caroline, whilst she was sleeping, causing a bleeding head wound. Nobody would be trying to excuse his behaviour. He'd - rightly - be damned from here to hell.

 

[Begborrowsteal]

To ramble on that suicide is abuse to loved ones and is selfish.. fucking, WOW. Being suicidal is quite literally torture. You give up your fight for life. Its an incredibly scary and conflicting place to be. Mental illness should NOT be judged in that way.

 

[ahtisyourself]

The minimisation of what happened that night by her mother and others in that documentary is actually quite sickening. They just brushed over her throwing the phone at him, like it wasn’t a big deal to throw something with force towards a sleeping person. Not only that but Caroline was completely out of control when police arrested her, flipping tables at the police station and completely aggressive and irate. They completely ignored all of that and made out that she just brushed the phone off his head to wake him up and that was that.

Her mother is on a hiding to nothing searching tor this “truth” that she believes she can uncover. It does not matter one bit of the victim doesn’t want to press charges anymore, the CPS still have grounds to prosecute because often victims of abuse will be coerced by their abuser to withdraw their claims in the hopes that charges will be dropped.

I’m not sure what “truth” she is hoping to uncover and the whole thing felt very intrusive having Caroline’s private texts and voicenotes splashed all over the screen. The only truth that seems to be relevant is that Caroline, as we know from the previous documentary, suffered with her mental health issues her entire life and it’s sad to say but it seems like this was always going to be the way she left this earth.

There is no big “gotcha” to be had, or some huge revelation or uncovering. She attacked her partner and was about to lose everything and unfortunately could not cope with the pressure or see a way out. The whole thing is sad and she just needs to be left to rest now.

 

[Ginnyjo]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but think under UK law you can’t just change your mind and withdraw charges even if you want to. That’s not how it works

Afaik yes, especially if it's categorised as DV.
Her mums behaviour is baffling now, what the end game? Who is she looking to blame? because she seems to be pointing the finger at everyone else without acknowledging that herself and Carolines close family had more of the information/background story than some of her friends, friends who seem to be doing everything they could to support Caroline.
Carolines issues seem to have been going on since childhood when her parents would have been her main care givers, they knew how bad her mental health was and it was a bizarre industry to get into, given how fragile she seemed to be.
I don't understand the want in her Mum to blame everyone, there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement that no matter how you want to help someone, if they're not open to it, you can't make them. Caroline has been infantilised in the rewritten narrative her Mum is running with, Caroline was an adult who made adult choices, and seems to have been babied since birth by her family.
For her hand wringing now and finger pointing, where was the family? why weren't they all running shifts like her friends were? They knew how bad she had been for decades, and I really don't want to blame her family, but given how shes blaming everyone else, it does leave that question hanging, where were you, why wasn't Caroline under better treatment as a teen if it's as bad as her mother is saying now?

Theres an absolute whiff of mourn porn off this whole spectacle, we've had how many documentaries? How many interviews? How many 'IF YOU ONLY KNEW' statements?
If Caroline was so worried about being exposed by the crime scene pics being published, how would she feel about her life being exposed like this, her personal texts, her absolute worst fears?
I just can't fathom how a parent thinks this is a way to keep her memory alive.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

I do think that she killed herself due to the media mocking her, the upcoming criminal trial that she knew was going to be public, and the shame and hurt associated with losing her beloved job. She seemed to identify with her TV persona and she lost it.

As no trial has taken place it has not been found that she was really violent or even established what had happened that night. It is likely that she caused a scene, but we do not know what her boyfriend did and if she hit him with an object why she did it - although violence cannot be excused there can be mitigating circumstances.

So whilst she was a troubled and somewhat immature person I do not believe that she would necessarily have committed suicide.
This incident and what it did to her life was the reason.

Yes, a stronger person might not have killed themselves and gotten through this situation, but she couldn't deal with it.

Look at Blake Lively - she said in her lawsuit that the media reaction to her mean girl behaviour or her "cancellation" as she calls it caused her severe psychological harm. And she has a powerful husband, four children, tons of money and contacts, friendships with powerful people etc etc.
Caroline had her mother and sisters and friends, but was otherwise on her own and jobless and was facing a public criminal trial.

I find it annoying that everything is being blamed apart from peoples own actions.
If she was just some random, council estate yob beating their bf nobody would care that the media reported on any of this. But because she is a “beloved” tv-personality all of a sudden she needed protecting. It’s absolute BS. She was an abuser and should rightly be called out on it.
The same goes for Blake Lively and her mean girl antics. She’s rude and mean but we should all feel sorry for her because she’s now the victim of her own behaviour.
Sorry none of this washes with me. If you are publicly behaving like this then you should be publicly shamed. Two powerful white women do not get a pass

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

This might be unpopular, but I hate the whole 'be kind' 'movement'. It seems to have been hijacked by Z listers who scream it every time someone happens to point out that posting a trillion filtered bikini shots every day is perhaps a bit narcissistic. Of course we should all be kind by default but mainly the ones screaming it the loudest are the ones LEAST likely to be practicing what they preach.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

The trailer for the new documentary is a strange one. Hearing her personal voice notes when she's distressed just feels wrong.

I’m also annoyed as I feel they are going to portray her as some great tragic character. When she was in fact a narcisist who abused people

 

[truffletrot]

Christine flack was on Spencer Matthew’s podcast talking about the case and Spencer was asking her how they were able to go on with the case even though LB had refused to cooperate, and her mum answered it with ‘they continue even if the victim doesn’t cooperate which does more harm than good”

errr. No, that’s definitely a good measure in place! And it was put in place so that domestic abusers couldn’t terrify their victims to not cooperate!

 

[ahtisyourself]

And her Mum still wants answers! Article in Daily Mail today about the new documentary.

Maybe she should have been by Caroline’s side herself and she wouldn’t be looking for answers. Maybe that’s harsh but this woman just needs to stop now.

 

[Sandyclaws]

Listened to that last night.
I really have no idea how CF mum can blame LT, when she went above and beyond. It sounds like she actively spent nights with CF that she could have been spending with her own daughter.
If CF mother was so concerned, why was she or the rest of the immediate family not providing 24 hour supervision/ doing all they could to get her to accept help or trying to get her under emergency hold.

I dont think LT could have done much more than she had been doing, and I think CF for whatever reason, or however temporary her crappy situation would be, was fully intent on completing what whe seemed to continuously be trying to do.

As for the Be Kind thing, I see that so misused, mainly by people peddling their awful "opinions" or views and then meeting any healthy debate with "be kind" and they usually are the ones who need to practice what they preach

 

[ahtisyourself]

Tbh at the time of Caroline’s death I did question why her friends would leave her when she was so critically high risk and had already attempted suicide the night before, but for the mother to question their absence so publicly in a way that almost blames them for her death is so inappropriate. Every criticism she has directed at them could also be directed towards herself. Caroline was so vulnerable and clearly having a mental breakdown while going through the lowest moment of her life, her friends did their best; where was her mother?

 

[ahtisyourself]

Listened to the pod. I’m not familiar with Louise at all outside of hearing her speak but I’m not sure what more she could have done for Caroline, bar chain herself to her 24/7 and have no life of her own. She left for a few hrs on a Sunday to spend time with her own family that she hadn’t seen as she was constantly supervising Caroline, and said she felt safe leaving her in the day as it was only night time that tended to trigger Caroline. Her sister was also on her way over. I’m sure too, although she doesn’t exactly state it, that she was tired and fed up with it all and annoyed with Caroline for playing down her attempts and state of mind to the paramedics the night before, who then think she’s fine and don’t admit her. There isn’t a whole lot else she could have done, and fair play to her for not getting involved in any mud slinging towards Caroline’s mother when asked, and be like well where was she when her daughter had made several attempts, refused professional medical help and was left for her friends to deal with? Because I’m not sure I would have been able to hold my tongue.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

I really feel for Christine, I imagine losing a child must be a pain that will never leave you. That said, she's in complete denial about Caroline and her chaotic, unhealthy lifestyle. She, and only she, is to blame for taking her own life, it is not on anyone else at all.

 

[ohcomeon99]

I know this is unpopular opinion across the board with the nation (it seems) but Caroline was a domestic abuser who showed predatory behaviour towards young men. I say this as someone who has worked in criminal and family court, and alongside children’s services.

Mental illness does not make you a domestic abuser. Addiction does not. It can exacerbate behaviours and motivations that are already there but not cause them. I think those things being used as excuses for her behaviour just increases stigma around these issues to be honest. I’m a recovering addict for many years but I wasn’t a domestic abuser in addiction or out. Lundy Bancroft wrote an excellent book about DA called “why does he do it” but it applies across the board.

The family can claim this was a witch hunt all they want but they had a lot of evidence, history and police information in order to proceed as they did. It’s also not uncommon for victims, especially men, to not support prosecution, especially when the Perpetrator weaponises mental health, or has something over them. Or has a PR team around them.

The “Be Kind” stuff really pissed me off at the time. How kind was Caroline when she was assaulting her partners? I’m NOT saying she should have been hounded but she was facing the consequence of her actions, as she should. Does that mean no one should face Justice because they have mental health issues?

Why shouldn’t he have moved on? And I do not understand why the mother keeps rehashing this - no amount of PR from them will convince me of anything other than the above unless there is evidence of some great conspiracy.

 

[Blueblue123]

I'm uncomfortable at the underlying suggestion that domestic violence shouldn't be fully investigated if the victim withdraws their accusation or the accused is having a tough time

 

[Notredamn]

She found text and threw his phone at him. He made a calculation, knowing how vulnerable she was and told her, 'you're fucked', rang the police and sent humiliating photos of the scene of her self harming to whoever. No doubt she was hard work, but did she have ANYONE who had her best interests at heart in her life other than family?
Despite it all, she still wanted to be with him. She would accept any old shit, she thought so little of herself. Didn't think she was good enough for anything, not even life.
And even in death, all the gory details are printed for no good reason at all. She'd have been so embarrassed.

 

[freda19]

I’m really uncomfortable with framing Lewis as the victim. If he was cheating on her and gaslighting her then she’s as much a victim as he was, especially as he would have known about her mental health issues and by the sounds of it took advantage? Mental abuse is just as bad as physical imo. And I’m definitely not trying to condone physical violence but 9/10 women I know who found texts off another woman on their boyfriends phone after a day of drinking would give their fella a smack. Just a horrible situation all round and I wish she could have managed to take a few steps back, take herself away from the limelight and taken time to sort her issues out

Really? Are you serious?
I can honestly say that I don't know any women who would ever resort to violence, despite at least half a dozen(probably more on the quiet) in my circle having caught their partners cheating in some form.They just deal with it like adults rather than like 16 yr old gang members.
She battered him, was charged and because she was mentally fragile she couldn't face the consequences. That's it. It's truly sad but there is no point in dressing it up or excusing it with claims of 9 out of 10 women would do the same. There's a door in every home ... you either pack your bag and walk out through it or pack his bags and slam the door on his arse as he leaves. The talking can come later when both parties are calm. Violence should never enter into it at any stage. Never.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Honestly, the best thing her friends (flackstock anyone?!), her family and most of all her mother can do is let her rest in the peace she never had when she was alive. Remember her in private, celebrate her life privately, grieve privately.

…….. And the ‘be kind’ bullshit can get in the fucking bin because it’s always used to shut up anyone with a dissenting pov no matter how constructive.

I have said this before but a friend of a friend worked with Caroline’s mother and she was a nasty piece of work, so she can stick her be kind bollocks where the sun doesn’t shine.

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

Blaming other people for someone else’s suicide is a really horrible thing to do, however much pain you’re in. But Caroline’s toxic personality didn’t come out of nowhere.

 

[Patsy Stone]

Giving evidence via videolink, Mollie Grosberg explained why they avoided calling the police, and expressed her frustration over Caroline refusing to go to hospital.

She said: “We were obviously very scared about getting the police involved. She was trying to explain. It was agreed she wasn’t going (to hospital) and I got very angry and shouted, I said this was ridiculous.”

When asked whether Caroline pushed her friends away when she needed them most, Mollie replied: “Yes. Every time I left her for half an hour she would do something. It feels like she needed help.”

“She must’ve said ‘no-one will every understand what I’m going through’ ten times that morning. She was so scared to go to prison, of the police, the press … it was too much. All she cared about was everybody else being affected.”


Caroline’s friends ended up spending the night with her, but left the next morning at around 10.30am as the presenter was angry with them for calling an ambulance the night before.

Lou told the court: “Caroline spoke to her family about coming the next day because she wanted us to leave, she was quite angry with us. She didn’t want us there.”

I can’t help but feel so sad for her friends reading this. It sounded like Caroline was clearly very upset with her friends for calling an ambulance due to the clear emotional distress she was in even though they did the right thing by doing so. I’m sure they think all the time ‘what if’ we had just stayed with her that morning, it would be torturous. Lives can’t be lived with ‘what ifs’. Mollie says she got very frustrated when the paramedics were there and shouted it was ridiculous - whether it was aimed at them or Caroline it looks like those closest to her were too at a breaking point. Her sister said paramedics had been called on 4 separate occasions and as Mollie says above she couldn’t leave her alone for even half an hour without her doing something. I believe as sad as it is if she’d hadn’t have killed herself that day she would have another day. It was clearly constantly on her mind she wanted to end her life. She needed serious help but it was pushed away by her as she felt shame. It’s such a sad situation for all involved