Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[CoopsLoops]

Knife crime is growing at an alarming rate & it scares me to death, there seems to be no deterrent & many kids carry a knife as a status symbol & use it to sort out minor disputes which end in tragedy. However, I’m not sure how many other stabbings are carried out by kids who have put a detailed plan together to murder their victim in a violent frenzy, that’s also why this case has attracted attention. This isn’t (to me, anyway) an ‘average” stabbing.

The level of pre-mediation combined with the frenzied attack (the frenzied nature not having been planned) is definitely a reason why this is not an “average” stabbing.

There’s several reasons why this case has attracted so much more attention than other fatal knife crimes, a few of which have nothing to do with X & Y… or Brianna identifying as trans for that matter.
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This recent case for example wasn’t gang-related and involved an at the time 16 year old defendant, a lot of pre-meditation, a “brutal” attack and a trial that lasted over four weeks.

But it didn’t involve a second defendant or made-for-tabloid-sensationalism moments like a kill list. Or other things that made Brianna’s case so publicised.

Got little national publicity if any.

https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/suffolk/news/news/2023/november/haverhill--teenager-sentenced-for-murder/

 

[BarryEvansHun]

Just to be clear my statement was more interest. I find it fascinating that he couldn't sit and listen to important information regarding his whole life and future without distractions.
I also find it interesting he can concentrate on literature enough to study for five A levels.
I am aware it's a different sort of concentration needed for academic work but it's still very focused . My son is doing four and never seems to get a break.

I didn't and would never mean to offend.

We can’t focus on duck all without adjustments however if we find a topic we ‘like’ we can become hyper focused and cannot focus on anything else at all. Maybe he’s taking a levels in special interests of his. Obsessions really take over our heads and our lives. I wish sometimes I would become hyper focused on something that would enrich my life, but it never happens. Last HF was the nutty putty cave disaster. I didn’t sleep for weeks researching it, through the day at work I couldn’t stop thinking about it and it was affecting my admin, at home no housework got done. I can’t explain it.

 

[Nurseali]

We can’t focus on duck all without adjustments however if we find a topic we ‘like’ we can become hyper focused and cannot focus on anything else at all. Maybe he’s taking a levels in special interests of his. Obsessions really take over our heads and our lives. I wish sometimes I would become hyper focused on something that would enrich my life, but it never happens. Last HF was the nutty putty cave disaster. I didn’t sleep for weeks researching it, through the day at work I couldn’t stop thinking about it and it was affecting my admin, at home no housework got done. I can’t explain it.

Thank you.
I have just signed up online for a work course as this post has made me realise I should know more really. It's woeful the training on it that healthcare professionals and teachers get.
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The level of pre-mediation combined with the frenzied attack (the frenzied nature not having been planned) is definitely a reason why this is not an “average” stabbing.

There’s several reasons why this case has attracted so much more attention than other fatal knife crimes, a few of which have nothing to do with X & Y… or Brianna identifying as trans for that matter.
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This recent case for example wasn’t gang-related and involved an at the time 16 year old defendant, a lot of pre-meditation, a “brutal” attack and a trial that lasted over four weeks.

But it didn’t involve a second defendant or made-for-tabloid-sensationalism moments like a kill list. Or other things that made Brianna’s case so publicised.

Got little national publicity if any.

https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/suffolk/news/news/2023/november/haverhill--teenager-sentenced-for-murder/

Scary that it was a 10/2 split with the jury. Sounds clear cut to me he meant to murder him.

 

[repairshoplover]

I felt Justice Yip was sensitive to them like when there was severe noise from the cells. Taking a break then and moving Y to the witness box for less noise. I think she was fair to do this.

I wondered if the juror with a sore back was also taken into account with the breaks to allow them to move about. There was an allowance made for a juror to stand if needed.

 

[thegirlscout]

I just find it hard that two people who found it easy to plan a brutal murder for hours over a long period of time, enacted that murder and then tried to cover it up needed special treatment when they had to face the consequences of their actions.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I just find it hard that two people who found it easy to plan a brutal murder for hours over a long period of time, enacted that murder and then tried to cover it up needed special treatment when they had to face the consequences of their actions.

Do you have autism?

 

[Jasminexx02]

What they did was awful and inexcusable but please can you all just remember that when you’re speaking about neurodiversity with such ignorance, there are many of us reading this who are also neurodiverse and we’ve been told we’re making excuses, putting it on etc. our entire lives. Say what you want about them but to act like neurodiversity shouldn’t be accommodated and acting like it’s a choice is gross. You wouldn’t expect a physical disability not to be accommodated.

 

[blueyfan3684]

What they did was awful and inexcusable but please can you all just remember that when you’re speaking about neurodiversity with such ignorance , there are many of us reading this who are also neurodiverse and we’ve been told we’re making excuses, putting it on etc. our entire lives. Say what you want about them but to act like neurodiversity shouldn’t be accommodated and acting like it’s a choice is gross. You wouldn’t expect a physical disability not to be accommodated.

Difference is you haven’t murdered anyone. Yes obviously criminals still have rights but of course it’s still going to piss some people off to see them getting accommodations. Especially when not everyone is entirely convinced by the diagnoses (nothing wrong with that - they’re proven liars and manipulators) And yes I know that they were put in place for the sake of a smooth and fair trial etc etc

 

[Jasminexx02]

Difference is you haven’t murdered anyone. Yes obviously criminals still have rights but of course it’s still going to piss some people off to see them getting accommodations. Especially when not everyone is entirely convinced by the diagnoses (nothing wrong with that - they’re proven liars and manipulators) And yes I know that they were put in place for the sake of a smooth and fair trial etc etc

But you wouldn’t expect a physically disabled person to not be able to use a wheelchair, hearing aids etc. I don’t think that being a criminal, no matter how extreme, means that your disability shouldn’t be accommodated. You can’t just turn your autism off because you committed a crime. This isn’t just about them, but about neurodiversity as a whole and it just goes to show how much people don’t take neurodiverse people seriously. I feel the boy’s autism was fairly obvious and I don’t think anybody is in any sort of position to question a diagnosis given by a professional. He was still found guilty, it didn’t give him an unfair advantage, just gave him more of a level playing field for the sake of it being fair.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Difference is you haven’t murdered anyone. Yes obviously criminals still have rights but of course it’s still going to piss some people off to see them getting accommodations. Especially when not everyone is entirely convinced by the diagnoses (nothing wrong with that - they’re proven liars and manipulators) And yes I know that they were put in place for the sake of a smooth and fair trial etc etc

Why aren’t you convinced by the autism diagnosis?
Child Y would have been diagnosed by a highly competent child psychiatrist who would have absolutely scrutinized him to ensure he wasn’t malingering or lying to try and get a diagnosis. A detailed medical history would have been taken from his family and possibly school teachers to assess his past behaviour and symptoms too.
Realistically we know very little about his childhood, background and symptoms he may have had previously, so I would personally be inclined to trust the judgement of the hcp who diagnosed him.

 

[gigilouxx]

Whether it seems fair or not, if he’s been diagnosed with something then reasonable adjustments have to be made. Its better for the kid to sit with a puzzler book than have a trial collapse cos things haven’t been taken into consideration properly

 

[CoopsLoops]

Especially when not everyone is entirely convinced by the diagnoses (nothing wrong with that - they’re proven liars and manipulators)

Part of the reason they’re “proven” liars and manipulators is because they were tit at it. Boy Y didn’t dispose of the knife, that he initially denied bringing, or his clothes. But sure, they could outwit trained and experienced professionals

Those who aren’t entirely convinced by the diagnoses coincidentally happen to be the same people with little proper understanding of the conditions, so I’m not sure you’re in a position to judge whether it’s warranted…

 

[thegirlscout]

Do you have autism?

I said I find it hard, not that I disagree with what the judge and court did - I don’t need neurodiversity to have an opinion on what has happened.
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You wouldn’t expect a physical disability not to be accommodated.

The issue is that a physical disability would hinder someone carrying out this murder. If this was a murder committed in the heat of a moment that I could understand but this boy helped planned it, stabbed someone several times and then try to cover it up. To me this particular case doesn’t add up with what accommodations he needed during the trial to cope. That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in autism or think neurodivergent people are lying. I just find this case in particular difficult to get my head around.

 

[Jasminexx02]

I said I find it hard, not that I disagree with what the judge and court did - I don’t need neurodiversity to have an opinion on what has happened.
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The issue is that a physical disability would hinder someone carrying out this murder. If this was a murder committed in the heat of a moment that I could understand but this boy helped planned it, stabbed someone several times and then try to cover it up. To me this particular case doesn’t add up with what accommodations he needed during the trial to cope. That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in autism or think neurodivergent people are lying. I just find this case in particular difficult to get my head around.

But this isn’t about his capability of committing the crime. Contrary to popular belief, neurodiverse people are not in a one size fits all box and are perfectly capable of doing awful things just like everybody else. Clearly he did commit the crime and he does have autism so that just throws what you’re saying out the window. If we want to live in a world where neurodiverse people are treated fairly in a society build by and for neurotypical people then accommodations need to be made even in cases where the neurodiverse person has done something horrific.

 

[blueyfan3684]

Part of the reason they’re “proven” liars and manipulators is because they were tit at it. Boy Y didn’t dispose of the knife, that he initially denied bringing, or his clothes. But sure, they could outwit trained and experienced professionals

Those who aren’t entirely convinced by the diagnoses coincidentally happen to be the same people with little proper understanding of the conditions, so I’m not sure you’re in a position to judge whether it’s warranted…

Fair points but why bother with that last line? I’m neurodivergent myself. Just because someone disagrees doesn’t mean they have ‘little understanding of the conditions’

 

[daisy2809]

thinking of brianna's family this christmas eve. the strength and composure they've shown has been second to none, and they should be exceptionally proud of themselves

 

[thegirlscout]

But this isn’t about his capability of committing the crime. Contrary to popular belief, neurodiverse people are not in a one size fits all box and are perfectly capable of doing awful things just like everybody else. Clearly he did commit the crime and he does have autism so that just throws what you’re saying out the window. If we want to live in a world where neurodiverse people are treated fairly in a society build by and for neurotypical people then accommodations need to be made even in cases where the neurodiverse person has done something horrific.

I’m not talking about neurodiversity as a whole I am just talking about him. How can he do all this planning and go through doing something horrific and trying to hide it but find a trial arduous?

 

[HotesTilaire]

I said I find it hard, not that I disagree with what the judge and court did - I don’t need neurodiversity to have an opinion on what has happened.
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The issue is that a physical disability would hinder someone carrying out this murder. If this was a murder committed in the heat of a moment that I could understand but this boy helped planned it, stabbed someone several times and then try to cover it up. To me this particular case doesn’t add up with what accommodations he needed during the trial to cope. That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in autism or think neurodivergent people are lying. I just find this case in particular difficult to get my head around.

If you looking into autism you”d be able to understand.
Its not that he finds the trial “arduous” he finds it hard to maintain concentration and stamina during a formal trial taking place in a set timeframe which requires his almost daily presence, which is very different to having an obsession with knives and murder which he communicated with one other person about by text.
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I’m not talking about neurodiversity as a whole I am just talking about him. How can he do all this planning and go through doing something horrific and trying to hide it but find a trial arduous?

I mean, people have tried to explain it in this thread but you can’t understand it, so maybe you’ll just have to accept it’s outwith your ability/knowledge. The experts in the court, ND people etc all understand it, which is the main thing.
Youre looking at it as if he isn’t neurodivergent

 

[Tumbleweed]

There was also talk that Betty was a dominatrix prostitute who allowed her clients to sexually abuse Mary. Mary's life was tragic in so many ways.

It's a wonder that she managed to eventually lead a relatively normal life after everything that happened to her .
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Thank you.
I have just signed up online for a work course as this post has made me realise I should know more really. It's woeful the training on it that healthcare professionals and teachers get.
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Scary that it was a 10/2 split with the jury. Sounds clear cut to me he meant to murder him.

I thought that too . Very strange.

 

[Em312]

I’m not talking about neurodiversity as a whole I am just talking about him. How can he do all this planning and go through doing something horrific and trying to hide it but find a trial arduous?

You understand the difference between planning something exciting with a friend over text and sitting listening to lengthy formal legal procedures in an unfamiliar environment, I hope? The two aren't comparable activities.

When Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend, should he have been made to crawl up the steps to the dock without his prosthetics on? How could he have shot someone and claimed he thought it was an intruder but find walking around a court room arduous?

If that last example sounds ridiculous it's what those questioning the neurodivergent accomodations sound like to those that do understand.