Thank you for sharing the information about Mary Bell. I’ve read a little on her case over the years but I wasn’t aware of her background. It’s interesting to know.
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Just as an opinion, I can totally see how people would think that. It's really baffling and I don't understand how it works myself but I'm AUDHD, Top marks GCSE and A levels and I have fidget toys and measures to help me concentrate. It's a strange old thing to be neurodivergent and I don't know how to describe. But I see how if you're neurotypical it makes no bloody sense
makes none to me either!
I think Y was taking the piss, but I agree it was right to give in to his demands because it made the trial go more smoothly. And it was all for nothing anyway because he was found guilty.
See this is just emotive speculation.
How do you know it was “his demands?”
How do you know it wasn’t at the suggestion of psych professionals?
How do you know the prosecution - and judge - didn’t request robust evidence that these accommodations were required?
Answer to all: unless you were personally involved, you don’t.
This isn’t the court’s first rodeo. They’d have been acutely aware of these accommodations would look. They absolutely would not have agreed to them just because Y demanded them.
I’m surprised at people not being happy with the reasonable adjustments made to the court process for X and Y.
Would you prefer them in the dock kicking off, being restrained taken down to the cells and being calmed down before being dragged back up and repeat …
Judge Yip was quite happy to make these adjustments and said it was in the courts best interests to get through it as easily and quickly as possible for all involved.
Would you prefer them in the dock kicking off, being restrained taken down to the cells and being calmed down before being dragged back up and repeat …
Judge Yip was quite happy to make these adjustments and said it was in the courts best interests to get through it as easily and quickly as possible for all involved.
Yeah, and let's face it, Judge Yip is an intelligent woman and knows what she's doing. I trusted her decision.
They probably would. They get too invested in cases like these and forget that it's real life and not some crappy ITV drama.
I couldn’t agree more. The thread being derailed a bit by people saying the reasonable adjustments were disrespectful to Briannas family, have become a bit boring.
We are all horrified by the violence perpetrated on Brianna. We all wanted to the see the correct verdict. We did. We feel sickened by what those teenagers have done and I dare say it was always going to be an open and shut case as the evidence was overwhelming, but regardless they are still entitled to a fair trial including any reasonable adjustments, which in the long run, not only ensure their full participation, make an already incredibly difficult few weeks on the families easier as the trial will run more smoothly.
It’s not difficult to understand. Any I don’t profess to understand or know much about autism and ADHD, but some people on here are massively ignorant to these conditions. Even if some people think they are playing up those conditions or trying to gain sympathy- it doesn’t matter, it’s important those allowances were made so no one could come back and say they weren’t treated fairly, leaving the verdict in balance.
There does seem to be a gleefulness - or naivety? - on part of some people (not necessarily on here) to regard every aspect of X & Y as malevolent manipulation that’s so demonic it’s incredibly rare.
Obviously their plotting to kill and the horrific way they stabbed Brianna was demonic.
But X being thrown out of school for giving another student cannabis (to quote what a detective said) is really bloody commonplace with all types of secondary schools. It’s not unusual or the most horrifying behaviour that happens at school.
Teenagers meeting on a Saturday afternoon to do cocaine is also not totally uncommon.
Young defendants getting reasonable adjustments for ADHD and autism and their age is standard. There is a disproportionate number of people with ADHD and to a lesser extent autism in prison/juvenile detention centres.
Teenagers stabbing teenagers to death is also unfortunately a regular occurrence. Three other teenagers were stabbed to death by other teenagers during the week Brianna was killed.
Just yesterday or the day before, two 18- year olds were convicted of killing another teenager with a knife (machete) when they were 17.
A charity has done research and said that knife crime amongst teenagers has increased a lot since the pandemic.
However big the wish to regard X and Y as evil and psychotic and beyond comprehension, there are some societal issues at play that’s affected a lot of people. There are too many families who have lost their teenage child to knife crime. It’s just most of the cases don’t get 10% of the press and social media coverage that this one has.
I remember dragging my daughter home at about 16/17 after realising that the 'sleepover' she was going on was attending a huge illegal rave, with friends, with plenty of drugs involved at the gathering. She was a good student and well behaved child and aside from that one night, had never been close to breaking the law. Needless to say I hit the roof.
I dread to think how, if her life had ended that night, that she may well have been portrayed as a bad kid, off doing drugs, partying, etc. Because of that I think twice about viewing their home lives as necessarily problematic because of it.
Here here. I’ve not seen anyone on here or anywhere mention the current knife crime epidemic which is killing teenagers at a rapid rate. People are more concerned that it was a hate crime, rather than looking at the facts that it part of a growing culture of teenagers that are killing each other weekly with knives. Not just kitchen knives, great big duck off machetes.
Makes sense to me to allow reasonable adjustments for neurodiverse defendants in order to avoid either mistrial or potential appeals for mistrial further down the line. If reasonable adjustments are made then unfair trial cannot be claimed at any point and I think in this case this is extremely important, particularly now with regard to the guilty outcomes
Thanks for sharing. I've just watched it. I have been following throughout, but that just made it even more chilling. It's just all so unbelievable. Poor Esther
. R.I.P Brianna 
Hope them 2 fear every day for the rest of their lives.. especially since girl X likes to see fear
I wasn't aware of the details of the Mary Bell case either. Quite a sad case.
Knife crime is growing at an alarming rate & it scares me to death, there seems to be no deterrent & many kids carry a knife as a status symbol & use it to sort out minor disputes which end in tragedy. However, I’m not sure how many other stabbings are carried out by kids who have put a detailed plan together to murder their victim in a violent frenzy, that’s also why this case has attracted attention. This isn’t (to me, anyway) an ‘average” stabbing.
Tbh that's the tip of the iceberg. Betty Bell tried to kill Mary Bell multiple times before she was three and also gave her away to a stranger. She told Mary her real father was the devil (she had her as a teenager and I suspect Mary was the product of rape).
Most of this information came from Mary's maternal family, who tried to get Betty on 'the straight and narrow' and forced her to keep Mary when she gave her away. I think they had good intentions but didn't protect her at all.
There was also talk that Betty was a dominatrix prostitute who allowed her clients to sexually abuse Mary. Mary's life was tragic in so many ways.
As someone who needs reasonable adjustments, I’m not.
It’s always seen as a power play, a lie, you’re putting it on etc also always seen as a bonus, a gift, a special prize nobody else gets when they are made. It’s EXHAUSTING and I have ME which means I’m already permanently exhausted before “demanding” adjustments for my invisible disability.
Im frequently without a voice and people hate it. They hate that I want to email, write things down, I have to use relay UK for phonecalls because hearing people need a person to speak to them, they can’t cope with a robot voice or emails. They can’t explain things on email they have to speak. I get asked “can’t you do sign language?” I can’t (was never taught because I could speak and hear) although I sign a bit. If I sign, they say “oh I don’t know sign language, don’t you have an interpreter”
And the SHOUTING oh my days, my hearing is fine, in fact it’s sensitive, why do you shout at people who can’t talk? How does that make sense?
people who don’t have disabilities are the biggest wah wah cry babies about having to go slightly out of their normal way for a few minutes even though it costs nothing and does them no harm
Just to be clear my statement was more interest. I find it fascinating that he couldn't sit and listen to important information regarding his whole life and future without distractions.
I also find it interesting he can concentrate on literature enough to study for five A levels.
I am aware it's a different sort of concentration needed for academic work but it's still very focused . My son is doing four and never seems to get a break.
I didn't and would never mean to offend.
I also find it interesting he can concentrate on literature enough to study for five A levels.
I am aware it's a different sort of concentration needed for academic work but it's still very focused . My son is doing four and never seems to get a break.
I didn't and would never mean to offend.
He could, as long as he didn’t have to sit still with no other stimulus
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