Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Thegirlwhouk]

Well we can disagree - that's fine. But on the face of it the child was easily able to access quite horrific things from an early teenage age. And either her mother didn't know or didn't care.

Working with vulnerable and damaged children myself, 95% of that time they are that way because of their parents. If you look at youth offenders and youth offending rates s huge majority come from backgrounds where something was lacking. The stats don't lie. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be hugely surprised if X's homelife was hunky dory. She could have just been in the very small percentage of people who are born evil psychopaths, but it's also very possible (and more likely) that that isn't the case.

I am not suggesting Briannas death was her mother's fault. I am suggesting that her mother should have had a better idea of what was going through her teenage daughters head and mind. She should have been monitoring those text messages and her internet use. Let's not forget X had been excluded from school already....

 

[Nosy123]

I think

You don’t know anything about the girls home life or how she was parented. There is no reason at the moment to suggest that her mother did anything but love and care for her…. It’s incredibly unfair, simplistic and short sighted just to say ‘it’s the parents fault’

Absolutely, very well said!

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

Wow, bloody hell. I mean, if she didn't know what was going on in her own kids life should she really be working with other people's children? What else might she turn a blind eye to?!

I'm going to repeat my previous comment here, because I think it's really relevant to this idea.

I remember dragging my daughter home at about 16/17 after realising that the 'sleepover' she was going on was attending a huge illegal rave, with friends, with plenty of drugs involved at the gathering. She was a good student and well behaved child and aside from that one night, had never been close to breaking the law. Needless to say I hit the roof.

I dread to think how, if her life had ended that night, that she may well have been portrayed as a bad kid, off doing drugs, partying, etc. Because of that I think twice about viewing their home lives as necessarily problematic because of it.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

I'm going to repeat my previous comment here, because I think it's really relevant to this idea.

I remember dragging my daughter home at about 16/17 after realising that the 'sleepover' she was going on was attending a huge illegal rave, with friends, with plenty of drugs involved at the gathering. She was a good student and well behaved child and aside from that one night, had never been close to breaking the law. Needless to say I hit the roof.

I dread to think how, if her life had ended that night, that she may well have been portrayed as a bad kid, off doing drugs, partying, etc. Because of that I think twice about viewing their home lives as necessarily problematic because of it.

But X wasn't a good student. She had already been excluded for drug related issues! Like you say, you hit the roof and I bet you kept a good eye on her afterwards! I don't view kids who go to raves and do drugs occasionally as problematic or troubled kids

Going to a drug fuelled rave is within the realms of normal teenage behaviour. Plotting to kill someone, quite openly - is not

 

[HotesTilaire]

I just think - plenty of people have kids that are difficult, a bit of a handful, going through a phase. Nobody thinks their child is going to kill somebody.
---
Nobody is a murderer until they kill someone.

 

[Reversible Octopus]

I don't think, without fact, it is right to blame the Mum. It is not hard to get on the dark web. Some kids are a product of their circumstances but some.. are just genuinely bad.

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

But X wasn't a good student. She had already been excluded for drug related issues! Like you say, you hit the roof and I bet you kept a good eye on her afterwards! I don't view kids who go to raves and do drugs occasionally as problematic or troubled kids

Going to a drug fuelled rave is within the realms of normal teenage behaviour. Plotting to kill someone, quite openly - is not

For X and Y I feel it's much more nuanced, for sure. But for Brianna and the idea that she's gone to a park to do cocaine = she must have been a 'bad kid' - that I disagree with.

 

[HotesTilaire]

For X and Y I feel it's much more nuanced, for sure. But for Brianna and the idea that she's gone to a park to do cocaine = she must have been a 'bad kid' - that I disagree with.

Coke in the park is the new “nicked half a bottle of Cinzano out of the drinks cabinet”

 

[MaryLou32]

Well we can disagree - that's fine. But on the face of it the child was easily able to access quite horrific things from an early teenage age. And either her mother didn't know or didn't care.

Working with vulnerable and damaged children myself, 95% of that time they are that way because of their parents. If you look at youth offenders and youth offending rates s huge majority come from backgrounds where something was lacking. The stats don't lie. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be hugely surprised if X's homelife was hunky dory. She could have just been in the very small percentage of people who are born evil psychopaths, but it's also very possible (and more likely) that that isn't the case.

I am not suggesting Briannas death was her mother's fault. I am suggesting that her mother should have had a better idea of what was going through her teenage daughters head and mind. She should have been monitoring those text messages and her internet use. Let's not forget X had been excluded from school already....

You may very well be right but the point is- you don’t know. You’re making an assumption and saying the woman shouldn’t be allowed to teach?!
What if she tried her best to discipline the girl after being excluded, after her drug taking and whatever else she got up to? What if she did check her daughters phone but her daughter was clever and made sure to clear her browsing history? It’s clear that girl X is a liar and manipulator, so what’s to say she was doing the same to her mother. No matter what trouble she has got into I’d imagine her mother didn’t expect or suspect she was planning to kill someone. It’s quite ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
Even if you’re right and Girl Xs home life was not great it still doesn’t make it solely the mothers fault, it’s overly simplistic to suggest that

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

For X and Y I feel it's much more nuanced, for sure. But for Brianna and the idea that she's gone to a park to do cocaine = she must have been a 'bad kid' - that I disagree with.

Yes I wasn't for a second suggesting Brianna was a 'bad kid' for going to the park to take drugs. She was vulnerable. The majority of kids who take drugs aren't bad, agreed but if you get excluded from school for essentially dealing drugs or something similar - as X did - that's a different kettle of fish.
---

You may very well be right but the point is- you don’t know. You’re making an assumption and saying the woman shouldn’t be allowed to teach?!
What if she tried her best to discipline the girl after being excluded, after her drug taking and whatever else she got up to? What if she did check her daughters phone but her daughter was clever and made sure to clear her browsing history? It’s clear that girl X is a liar and manipulator, so what’s to say she was doing the same to her mother. No matter what trouble she has got into I’d imagine her mother didn’t expect or suspect she was planning to kill someone. It’s quite ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
Even if you’re right and Girl Xs home life was not great it still doesn’t make it solely the mothers fault, it’s overly simplistic to suggest that

I am not saying she shouldn't be allowed to teach, but I wouldn't want her teaching my child. Regardless of everything you have said, I would question her judgement too much.

I never said her mother should have expected her to kill, I just suspect her mother wasn't as aware of what was going on as she should have been or could have been. In my opinion, as a parent, we remain responsible for our children and their actions even when they are teenagers. It's us who raise them and teach them to be the people they become.

 

[jammybee]

If it’s right what we read, that x had a kill list and school friends knew - why weren’t school involving the authorities that’s what I can’t understand.
I attended some days of the trial and I don’t want to be in contempt of court - I’m sure it’s not - to say all parents were absolutely devastated. Visibly.

 

[MaryLou32]

Yes I wasn't for a second suggesting Brianna was a 'bad kid' for going to the park to take drugs. She was vulnerable. The majority of kids who take drugs aren't bad, agreed but if you get excluded from school for essentially dealing drugs or something similar - as X did - that's a different kettle of fish.
---


I am not saying she shouldn't be allowed to teach, but I wouldn't want her teaching my child. Regardless of everything you have said, I would question her judgement too much.

I never said her mother should have expected her to kill, I just suspect her mother wasn't as aware of what was going on as she should have been or could have been. In my opinion, as a parent, we remain responsible for our children and their actions even when they are teenagers. It's us who raise them and teach them to be the people they become.

Of course it is, most of us try our best and hope for the best but you aren’t the only person in a child’s life, you are not their sole influence, you cannot control every tiny aspect of their life and know their every action and thought. That’s just not realistic. Think back you when you were a teenager and all the lies you told parents and how much they didn’t know.
For the vast majority of us that’s the reality even if we have great and healthy relationships with our parents. They don’t know everything- teenagers only let their parents know what they want them to know.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

If it’s right what we read, that x had a kill list and school friends knew - why weren’t school involving the authorities that’s what I can’t understand.
I attended some days of the trial and I don’t want to be in contempt of court - I’m sure it’s not - to say all parents were absolutely devastated. Visibly.

I'm not surprised by that at all. I can only imagine how the parents are feeling. But I still think they hold some of the blame. Especially Y's Dad who bought the bleeping knife.

I hope that the authorities were involved and that the parents were doing everything they could to support their children. I would be intrigued to hear schools opinion of X and Y. We often have parents claim their child 'would never do that' when we literally see them do it every day. Some parents, have a very inaccurate view of their own children. In my class I have a child who is almost certainty neurodiverse. He struggles socially and struggles not to lash out at others. Every single time we bring it up with the parents (weekly) they claim he must have been provoked and the other child started it, despite us seeing every incident with our own eyes. There is, unfortunately, no getting through to them.
---

Of course it is, most of us try our best and hope for the best but you aren’t the only person in a child’s life, you are not their sole influence, you cannot control every tiny aspect of their life and know their every action and thought. That’s just not realistic. Think back you when you were a teenager and all the lies you told parents and how much they didn’t know.
For the vast majority of us that’s the reality even if we have great and healthy relationships with our parents. They don’t know everything- teenagers only let their parents know what they want them to know.

I agree that all of this is very normal teenager behaviour. I know I told lies to my parents, sure! But I guess the point I'm trying (probably badly) to make is that I don't think X and Y were born 'evil'. They became evil, over time. This isn't usual. Most teenagers push the boundaries, but they don't end up killing someone and writing really detailed 'kill plans'. Most do drugs, sleep around and push the boundaries a healthy amount.

The ones that go really off the rails and end up commiting horrific crimes are generally those who lacked support/love, witnessed awful things or suffered in a different way whilst growing up. That, coupled with normal teenager development, is what leads to teenagers doing these things - gang crimes, school shootings etc. I just think it's very very very unlikely both X and Y had the 'normal' upbringings that have been alluded to.

 

[fishyfishfish]

New thread here: https://tattle.life/threads/brianna-ghey-murder-trial-4.43403/