Anti-Conspiracy Theories #7 Google told me, so it must be true. Sheeep!

[OwlAtTheMoon]

This article, by a British ufo investigator, is one of the most impressive pieces I've read on the subject. Her attitude blends a necessarily sceptical, scientific approach with an underlying sense of mystery at the tiny possibility of life on other planets. The comments are worth reading too.

Most UFOs – like the Chinese spy balloon – can be explained away. But what about the other 2%? | Heather Dixon

As a UFO investigator, it’s my job to be sceptical and rigorous. Yet an air of mystery remains – and I hope it always will, says investigator Heather Dixon

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ensay]

I believe there's life 'out there' but I don't believe we've ever come into contact with it.

Area 51 is obviously where they develop and test experimental aircraft and they understandably don't want any other country spying on what they're doing.

 

[ChampagneBox]

The ufo stuff does make me a bit anxious they can’t all be lying, surely? Why lie?? or is it as simple as their imagination is encouraged in order to cover up top secret government projects?

 

[Sideboard Bob]

When you think about it they’d have to have to have pretty amazing technology to travel that far across space in a little flying saucer. And then really bad luck to come that far and crash at a very specific place.

 

[Ensay]

As Arthur C. Clarke said:

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

The ufo stuff does make me a bit anxious they can’t all be lying, surely? Why lie?? or is it as simple as their imagination is encouraged in order to cover up top secret government projects?

That article I linked to above describes some of the fascinating ways in which people think they've seen ufos and it's been absolutely bona fide debunked. Mis-sightings include photographing flying objects not realising they're reflections of seatbelt latches, watches or other shiny objects from inside a car, or thinking actual planets like Venus or Mars or the North star, are alien crafts in the night sky.

 

[Deeznutslol]

I read this interesting paper recently which argues that the basis of many popular conspiracy theories (particularly those which involve people and label certain types of people are bad e.g evil scientists, evil doctors, idiotic mask wearing sheep etc) actually have some sort of evolutionary basis. They suggest that gossiping is human behaviour which evolved as a way to protect each other from ‘out groups’, and that CTs actually sort of serve a similar purpose.

“Gossiping was an important adaptation in human evolution (McAndrew and Milenkovic 2002). Robin Dunbar defends the view that the main factor in the origin of language is gossip itself (Dunbar 1996). In fact, it is estimated that 80% of conversations are about other human beings. Hominids likely were required to form bands as a way to ensure survival, and their greatest threats came, not only from predators, but also from other bands. Thus, in order to ensure group alliance as a defense against others, constant gossip served as a way to cement bonds, and exclude individuals perceived as dangerous.

It is thus expected that, when considering the causes of particular health problems, human beings will always have the inclination to talk about other human beings in relation to these problems. Consequently, the conversation will turn more interesting if the culprits of diseases are not just microorganisms, cancer cells or unhealthy foods, but rather, other human beings. And, since these are initially rumors about other people, they will ultimately spread rather quickly.”

I thought it was interesting as it shows how CTs can spread through communities and unite certain groups of people against others on a group level, rather than just on an individual level. Whenever a CTist bangs on about how capable of critical thought and how unlike the ‘masses of silly sheep’ they are, they’re actually just engaging in one of the most primitive forms of ‘group think’ which is something that every single one of us does because it was literally hardwired into us as a way to protect ourselves back when we were constantly at risk from being attacked & raided by other humans .

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7161434/

 

[Merpedy]

The UFO craze was created by government nepotism and incompetent journalism

Blame Harry Reid, Skinwalker Ranch, "dino-beavers," and The New York Times

www.theintrinsicperspective.com

An interesting article focusing on UFO coverage by news, specifically that the motivation is the clicks it all generates. It also includes a good analysis of this David Grusch story and how many publications are not mentioning the problems I've mentioned before and how certain logic allows for publications to entertain the idea of aliens for longer than necessary

It does appear interesting in the birth of 'alternative news channels' that are ready to entertain conspiracy theories (hello GB News!)

As for an update on that little story, his lawyers have "successfully concluded its representation" of him "on matters limited to his reasonable belief that elements of the Intelligence Community improperly withheld or concealed alleged classified information from the U.S. Congress". The phrasing used suggests that they have simply completed their job rather than dropped him because of all these public claims but they did feel it necessary to state:

The whistleblower disclosure did not speak to the specifics of the alleged classified information that Mr. Grusch has now publicly characterized, and the substance of that information has always been outside of the scope of Compass Rose’s representation. Compass Rose took no position and takes no position on the contents of the withheld information.

It does appear to leave the door open that before Congress he did testify about all of this UFO stuff (as I would understand it) but there remains no confirmation on whether that's really the case. Of course, many conspiracists around this have concluded that "it's not a bad thing, they're just saying they have completed their job" but it also doesn't add credibility to his story (at least as I would see it) and doesn't exactly look good

Compass Rose Attorneys Formally End Association with UAP Whistleblower David Grusch - The Debrief

Compass Rose attorneys say they have "successfully concluded representation" of former intelligence official and UAP whistleblower David Grusch.

thedebrief.org

A 1 hour interview is airing in the middle of the night (for us) with a discussion panel after. The conspiracy lot believe that this will reveal everything and break the world, forcing the US Government into disclosure. The full interview (7 hours - I've seen someone say that this is simply two separate interviews which lasted 3 hours-ish each) has been promised to be fully released somewhere and some point - it'll be interesting whether it will be behind a pay wall or whether it will be slowly released through the news station (News Nation, which no one seems to have heard of judging by the comments I have observed) to generate them engagement

Slightly insane stories continue with the Daily Mail cashing in:

Crashed UFO recovered by the US military 'distorted space and time'

Lawyer Daniel Sheehan tells DailyMail.com that a whistleblower told him of a crashed UFO recovered by the US military that 'distorted space-time'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Marine vet breaks 14-year silence to tell of UFO sighting

Former Marine Michael Herrera tells DailyMail.com that he saw a UFO being loaded with weapons in Indonesia in 2009.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Who’sYerDaddy]

Hey guys! ‘Murican here. About UFOs? Yeah. We’ve been lied to forever. If ppl knew the truth I think it would turn the planet upside down. Too much out there from ppl who have witnessed things, and it goes waaaay back to Robert Byrd’s notes on Antarctica his son found after his father’s death.

 

[caroleffinbaskin]

Hey guys! ‘Murican here. About UFOs? Yeah. We’ve been lied to forever. If ppl knew the truth I think it would turn the planet upside down. Too much out there from ppl who have witnessed things, and it goes waaaay back to Robert Byrd’s notes on Antarctica his son found after his father’s death.

There’s a Conspiracy theory thread somewhere…

 

[Who’sYerDaddy]

There’s a Conspiracy theory thread somewhere…

Ha! Apparently I misread this thread title!

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

If you mean Admiral Richard Byrd, this conspiracy theory has already been debunked (not just by Reuters):

Fact Check-Photos allegedly from Admiral Byrd’s Antarctic expedition were generated by artificial intelligence

Social media users are sharing images which they claim show top secret photographs from Admiral Byrd’s Antarctic expedition where traces of a lost ancient civilization can be seen. However, the images were created by artificial intelligence and do not show historic photographs...

www.reuters.com

 

[klarakluckbag]

I'm a life-long sci-fi fan, I'm also an amateur astronomer, so I live with the absolute (to me) certainty that even if we're alone at this particular time, in our particular corner of the Galaxy, there is no way that we are, or were, or will be, the only intelligent (lol) life in the Universe for all eternity. We're just not that special, humans aren't even that special on Earth. We've just been lucky enough to evolve on a planet that has circled a star which has been stable enough, for long enough, to give us time to develop speech, culture, language and a civilised society. And, like every other species which has lived, we will one day be gone, either by over-breeding and running out of resources, or by losing the battle for control of the Galactic Empire to the Imperial Forces (other space aliens are available...probably )

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Can't really disagree with the above, alien visitors are going to be either an advance group probing to see if we should be enslaved or eaten or obliterated, or the first arrival of the main horde who will enslave or eat or obliterate us.
Best case scenario, we end up as an addition to some coalition whose chief just wants more seats on the intergalactic council and once they've got those we will be 'accidentally' mis-filed for enslavement or 'accidentally' mis-labelled as food, or 'accidentally' used as target practice.


Tricky questions about timing and timescales are easily avoided by ancient/alien tech being found by archaeologists.
(a favourite episode in a certain show, titled 'wormhole x-treme' captures this brilliantly with a tangle of conspiracy within conspiracy)


So much fiction would be nothing without conspiracy. Flights of fancy are better without all the questions - take a hint of a conspiracy and make it the origin for any story you like, and as an idea it easily sticks... alien crash site in Antarctica, change the name from Byrd to Witwicky and voilà your film franchise is... transformed...
And the idea lives to see another day.

 

[Ensay]

I read this interesting paper recently which argues that the basis of many popular conspiracy theories (particularly those which involve people and label certain types of people are bad e.g evil scientists, evil doctors, idiotic mask wearing sheep etc) actually have some sort of evolutionary basis. They suggest that gossiping is human behaviour which evolved as a way to protect each other from ‘out groups’, and that CTs actually sort of serve a similar purpose.

“Gossiping was an important adaptation in human evolution (McAndrew and Milenkovic 2002). Robin Dunbar defends the view that the main factor in the origin of language is gossip itself (Dunbar 1996). In fact, it is estimated that 80% of conversations are about other human beings. Hominids likely were required to form bands as a way to ensure survival, and their greatest threats came, not only from predators, but also from other bands. Thus, in order to ensure group alliance as a defense against others, constant gossip served as a way to cement bonds, and exclude individuals perceived as dangerous.

It is thus expected that, when considering the causes of particular health problems, human beings will always have the inclination to talk about other human beings in relation to these problems. Consequently, the conversation will turn more interesting if the culprits of diseases are not just microorganisms, cancer cells or unhealthy foods, but rather, other human beings. And, since these are initially rumors about other people, they will ultimately spread rather quickly.”

I thought it was interesting as it shows how CTs can spread through communities and unite certain groups of people against others on a group level, rather than just on an individual level. Whenever a CTist bangs on about how capable of critical thought and how unlike the ‘masses of silly sheep’ they are, they’re actually just engaging in one of the most primitive forms of ‘group think’ which is something that every single one of us does because it was literally hardwired into us as a way to protect ourselves back when we were constantly at risk from being attacked & raided by other humans .

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7161434/

Interesting! I wonder if conspiracy theorists would view the above as an insult, even though it's not intended to be; it's just saying it's a further extension of evolutionary behaviour.

I think I've said a few times here that there's definitely a social aspect to conspiracy theorists, as they form a little community and it becomes them vs the 'uneducated masses'. So it's interesting to see that being said above with "Thus, in order to ensure group alliance as a defense against others, constant gossip served as a way to cement bonds, and exclude individuals perceived as dangerous."

I don't think it's a stretch to say that some conspiracy theorists see those who don't agree as dangerous. We saw it during the pandemic/vaccine era, where people who made arguments in favour of vaccines were insulted or "othered". I distinctly remember I was accused of being a shill or a plant on here and on Twitter/Facebook by the more ardent anti vaxxers. That was clearly done to debunk the kinds of things I was saying and it sent a signal to the rest that I wasn't to be trusted and anything I might say (no matter how logical) should be immediately discounted. The fact I'm still around post pandemic and post in a variety of threads has probably dispelled some of that, though. Unless they think the government are still employing moles to post non-vaccine posts on Tattle. (I wouldn't like to assume either way. )

I think the talk about alien life is a natural progression as well, because a lot of conspiracy theories are framed from a position of "looking beyond" what's directly in front of us, which is similar to wondering about whether we're alone in the universe. That said, such discussions are similar to the more old fashioned/traditional CTs, whereas we seem to be in a place now where some people take it to the nth degree and turn almost everything into a CT which then verges on paranoia in my opinion.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Interesting! I wonder if conspiracy theorists would view the above as an insult, even though it's not intended to be; it's just saying it's a further extension of evolutionary behaviour.

I think I've said a few times here that there's definitely a social aspect to conspiracy theorists, as they form a little community and it becomes them vs the 'uneducated masses'. So it's interesting to see that being said above with "Thus, in order to ensure group alliance as a defense against others, constant gossip served as a way to cement bonds, and exclude individuals perceived as dangerous."

I don't think it's a stretch to say that some conspiracy theorists see those who don't agree as dangerous. We saw it during the pandemic/vaccine era, where people who made arguments in favour of vaccines were insulted or "othered". I distinctly remember I was accused of being a shill or a plant on here and on Twitter/Facebook by the more ardent anti vaxxers. That was clearly done to debunk the kinds of things I was saying and it sent a signal to the rest that I wasn't to be trusted and anything I might say (no matter how logical) should be immediately discounted. The fact I'm still around post pandemic and post in a variety of threads has probably dispelled some of that, though. Unless they think the government are still employing moles to post non-vaccine posts on Tattle. (I wouldn't like to assume either way. )

I think the talk about alien life is a natural progression as well, because a lot of conspiracy theories are framed from a position of "looking beyond" what's directly in front of us, which is similar to wondering about whether we're alone in the universe. That said, such discussions are similar to the more old fashioned/traditional CTs, whereas we seem to be in a place now where some people take it to the nth degree and turn almost everything into a CT which then verges on paranoia in my opinion.

Yes, very interesting, this social, evolutionary aspect. I was also accused on here of being a shill and a plant, and - as if those aren't bizarre
enough - of posting from multiple accounts ffs! One tattle account's quite enough ta!

Amused to see the reason now being bandied about as to why not everyone who had covid vaccines isn't already dead... It was the quality of the jabs your Honour.... only c. 50% of the mrna ones were their proper intended strength, apparently. Not quite their killing potency. Goalposts. Shifting. Every. Time.

 

[Ensay]

Yes, very interesting, this social, evolutionary aspect. I was also accused on here of being a shill and a plant, and - as if those aren't bizarre
enough - of posting from multiple accounts ffs! One tattle account's quite enough ta!

Amused to see the reason now being bandied about as to why not everyone who had covid vaccines isn't already dead... It was the quality of the jabs your Honour.... only c. 50% of the mrna ones were their proper intended strength, apparently. Not quite their killing potency. Goalposts. Shifting. Every. Time.

Yeah I had a similar accusation made against me. Like you, I think one account is enough! I said I was more than happy for a mod to check my account for multiple registrations and the accusations died down after that. I suspect Tattle has measures in place to flush out multiple accounts anyway to be honest.

Regarding your second paragraph, is that the latest argument? I do remember seeing a few suggestions that some were faulty, but I didn't realise they were saying it was now 50%. That's quite sad really, given that's clearly been dreamt up as a way of saving face and not based on any real evidence.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

Yeah I had a similar accusation made against me. Like you, I think one account is enough! I said I was more than happy for a mod to check my account for multiple registrations and the accusations died down after that. I suspect Tattle has measures in place to flush out multiple accounts anyway to be honest.

Regarding your second paragraph, is that the latest argument? I do remember seeing a few suggestions that some were faulty, but I didn't realise they were saying it was now 50%. That's quite sad really, given that's clearly been dreamt up as a way of saving face and not based on any real evidence.

Yep 55% I believe is being posited. So as if the mass vaccine deaths prognosis ct wasn't bad enough, we've now got furious back pedalling. And if you take that 50% position to its logical conclusion then we're really only alive today because of a fortuitous 'stunningly ineffective vaccine batch' hypothesis... in other words (if you follow this line of thought), the repeated doses given to 27 to 30 million people in the UK (roughly half of the 55 to 60 million vaccinated) weren't effective either against covid or in killing people off en masse. Ffs choose a lane people, choose a lane!

 

[Merpedy]

I’d love to see a study into the effects of COVID conspiracies on the trust in media and other authorities

Following the Nottingham incident, there are so many tweets and comments saying that this is the media and police creating hysteria because the police initially did not release the details of what had happened. Saw someone go as far as saying the police is working on a cover up… very publicly of course

 

[Deeznutslol]

Interesting! I wonder if conspiracy theorists would view the above as an insult, even though it's not intended to be; it's just saying it's a further extension of evolutionary behaviour.

I’d be surprised if they did, I don’t see how anyone could find that offensive because as you say, it’s literally just a theory about why certain human behaviours have evolved!

It was the quality of the jabs your Honour.... only c. 50% of the mrna ones were their proper intended strength, apparently. Not quite their killing potency.

Oh dear, is this claim doing the rounds again? Whoever is saying this has spectacularly misinterpreted this BMJ report.
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n627

It wasn’t that 55% of vaccines were found to not be up to the proposed standard, it was that the European Medicines Agency analysed certain batches and found that some vaccines contained a lower percentage of mRNA integrity (specifically 55%). Broadly meaning that only 55% of the mRNA in the vaccine was still intact, when the % of intact mRNA should have been 75-78%. To try and explain why this happened a little, you cannot just inject raw mRNA into the body as it is quickly degraded, it’s also negatively charged and too large to diffuse across a cell membrane by itself, and therefore cannot reach it’s target. This problem is resolved by enclosing the mRNA within a lipid nanoparticle, which is essentially a little ‘ball’ of lipids that protect the mRNA and allow it to easily pass through the lipid bilayer of your cell membranes in order to reach the target. In simple terms, it’s like an envelope. The issue is that these lipid nanoparticles are also rather fragile, and chemical reactions can occur between them, the mRNA and other excipients in the vaccine which leads to the mRNA being degraded before it’s even administered, leading to a lower % mRNA integrity and therefore a lower overall vaccine efficacy. The fragility of mRNA (and also the lipid nanoparticles) are problems which were known before these vaccines were even created and it’s something that drug manufacturers have been trying to resolve for years. The reason these vaccines had to be stored at ultra low temperatures (-60 to -90 degrees centigrade) is because it’s been shown to increase the stability of the mRNA, but of course most healthcare centres never had the facilities to do this for large quantities of vaccines, so it was always accepted that there’d be some level of mRNA degradation.

The fact that mRNA integrity as low as 55% was found in certain batches indicated a quality control issue, which was later resolved, it’s not some great conspiracy theory. A huge number of quality issues in pharmaceutical products occur due to inappropriate storage or transport, I mean, if you leave your clearly labelled ‘keep refrigerated’ antibiotics out in the sun for 10 hours, what do you think is going to happen? Anyway, I’m really not sure why this report is doing the rounds again as it happened in 2021 and was discussed at the time.

This is an article which further explains what causes low mRNA integrity in vaccines and potential future resolutions for this problem if anyone is interested in this kind of thing:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378517321003914