Chunkeylaydee
VIP Member
JC had a maisonette which is where the stairs are. The house Logan was killed in was AW’s.
- Notice
DollyDiamondxo
Chatty Member
Good god I didn’t know he’d been cruel to the baby too. I thought it was racially aggravated agaisnt poor Logan
your so right. Making excuses for people, well a lot of people have had tough upbringings they don’t go round murdering kids! Wtf was AW thinking allowing him in her home. This young boy was allowed to sit in his room 24/7 playing video games without toilet breaks, urinating into a coke bottle. It’s frightening that in its self is abuse!
Lucyxxxx
VIP Member
I think JC is looking on about 27/28 years, he has extensive previous, the aggravating factors with the only mitigation being he pleaded guilty to PTCOJ but again that was only cause he was caught red handed so probably won't be taken too much in to consideration. AW I think about 23/24 years, hopefully longer but we will see. The boy will probably get 15/16 years and then be subject to all sorts of licence conditions. Just my thoughts.
Wouldn'tYouLikeToKnow
Member
Usually it's concurrently, very rarely is it consecutively.. which is a shame.
Consecutive sentences would actually make their time longer.
Mug shots
Logan's killers 'dehumanised' him
Mrs Justice Jefford speaks about the week leading up to Logan’s death when he was isolated in his room after contracting Covid-19. She said: “The way you treated Logan was extreme. He was kept isolated in his bedroom for 10 days. There was a baby gate which served to keep Logan in and he had no physical contact with his mother. When food was brought to him he was required to turn away.
“At the age of five he was expected to entertain himself with toys and screens all day. This treatment of Logan was cruel and that dehumanised him in the eyes of his parents. Teachers described him as engaging and well-behaved but you described him as badly behaved, naughty, and attention-seeking.
“You punished him by taking away food and made him face a wall for half an hour at a time. Neighbours heard you shouting aggressively and nastily. Angharad Williamson was heard saying: ‘Stop acting like a f****** d***head’ and said he had been ‘running around like an absolute toon’ and sitting on the floor and refusing to get up. In all probability he was already dying and what you described was the presentation of the injuries he received.”
Judge rejected Williamson's claim of seeking help
Mrs Justice Jefford said she did not accept Angharad Williamson’s claim that she sought to get help for son Logan on July 29 following an attack on her son by John Cole and the youth.
Mrs Justice Jefford said: “You described an assault where John Cole punched Logan so he fell back on his bottom and told [the youth] if he flinched again to sweep his legs from under him. He did that and pushed his head in the ground.”
She described how Wiliamson left the flat pursued by the youth but when a van driver asked her if she needed help she returned to the flat. The judge said: “That was an account you made up after the event to protect yourself and realised you could try to shift the blame….
“This was your characteristic dramatic behaviour completely and was inconsistent with getting away from your partner to seek help for your son. When help was offered to you you went back inside.”
She said there may be some truth in Williamson’s account of the assault, which she did not believe was responsible for causing Logan’s death .She added: “You had an opportunity to protect your son from further injuries and did not. The next day you went to the shops…
“I am sure what in fact happened was a far more serious assault on Logan later the same day or the following day.”
Beautiful tribute from Logan's school
A statement has been issued on behalf of Logan's school, Tondu Primary, following the conclusion of the hearing. They also released pictures of a 'buddy bench' and memorial garden created using funds raised in Logan's name.
The pupils, teachers, staff and governors at Tondu Primary School were all devastated to learn of the death of Logan Mwangi and the school community remains shocked and deeply saddened by his loss. As a friendly, energetic, and popular little boy Logan leaves us with many fond memories. He was a loving, sweet-natured child who was polite and articulate at all times.
Logan was always smiling and was described in court by his own teachers as having the kind of smile that could light up a classroom. He was a highly inquisitive child who enjoyed his lessons, particularly when using the outdoor classroom where he would have great fun with his friends.
Logan loved playing with his classmates, especially games like hide-and-seek or pretending to be superheroes. His favourite character was always Spiderman and he would display a keen and vivid imagination in his games.
Ultimately we remember Logan as being a bright, happy child who was caring and loving and an absolute pleasure to teach. As a school community we continue to feel his loss and to offer support to one another as we look towards the future. We are also united in our condemnation of the terrible actions of those who ended Logan’s short life in such a cruel and brutal way and are grateful that they have been held accountable for their crimes. Our thoughts remain with Logan.
I’m sorry I don’t no why it keeps adding to last message
None of you saw Logan as a child to be cared for as part of your family'
Mrs Justice Jefford discussed Logan’s injuries and death during her sentencing remarks. She said: “Whatever time the ferocious assault happened on Logan he was for most of that Friday injured and dying. If anyone would have sought medical assistance for him he had an 80% chance of survival despite the severity of his injuries.
“Nothing could have provoked the attack other than the boisterous behaviour of a child confined to his room for a week, separated from his family.
“None of you saw Logan as a child to be cared for as part of your family.
“I find the physical assault on Logan was committed by you John Cole and [the youth]. Angharad Williamson I am also sure in this small flat, this fatal attack could not have taken place without your full knowledge and collusion.
“It cannot be known whether he slumped into unconsciousness or fell unconscious immediately.
“In a final act of callousness all three of you agreed to cover up Logan’s death as an accident. John Cole and [the youth] have taken Logan from the flat flung over John Cole’s shoulder and dumped him in the river.
“He was placed well out into the water to make it look like he wandered off or drowned or to provide an explanation for his injuries. The stories you told about flytipping in the river was to disguise your wrongdoing.You regarded dumping Logan’s body as akin to dumping rubbish.”
Logan's killers 'dehumanised' him
Mrs Justice Jefford speaks about the week leading up to Logan’s death when he was isolated in his room after contracting Covid-19. She said: “The way you treated Logan was extreme. He was kept isolated in his bedroom for 10 days. There was a baby gate which served to keep Logan in and he had no physical contact with his mother. When food was brought to him he was required to turn away.
“At the age of five he was expected to entertain himself with toys and screens all day. This treatment of Logan was cruel and that dehumanised him in the eyes of his parents. Teachers described him as engaging and well-behaved but you described him as badly behaved, naughty, and attention-seeking.
“You punished him by taking away food and made him face a wall for half an hour at a time. Neighbours heard you shouting aggressively and nastily. Angharad Williamson was heard saying: ‘Stop acting like a f****** d***head’ and said he had been ‘running around like an absolute toon’ and sitting on the floor and refusing to get up. In all probability he was already dying and what you described was the presentation of the injuries he received.”
Judge rejected Williamson's claim of seeking help
Mrs Justice Jefford said she did not accept Angharad Williamson’s claim that she sought to get help for son Logan on July 29 following an attack on her son by John Cole and the youth.
Mrs Justice Jefford said: “You described an assault where John Cole punched Logan so he fell back on his bottom and told [the youth] if he flinched again to sweep his legs from under him. He did that and pushed his head in the ground.”
She described how Wiliamson left the flat pursued by the youth but when a van driver asked her if she needed help she returned to the flat. The judge said: “That was an account you made up after the event to protect yourself and realised you could try to shift the blame….
“This was your characteristic dramatic behaviour completely and was inconsistent with getting away from your partner to seek help for your son. When help was offered to you you went back inside.”
She said there may be some truth in Williamson’s account of the assault, which she did not believe was responsible for causing Logan’s death .She added: “You had an opportunity to protect your son from further injuries and did not. The next day you went to the shops…
“I am sure what in fact happened was a far more serious assault on Logan later the same day or the following day.”
Beautiful tribute from Logan's school
A statement has been issued on behalf of Logan's school, Tondu Primary, following the conclusion of the hearing. They also released pictures of a 'buddy bench' and memorial garden created using funds raised in Logan's name.
The pupils, teachers, staff and governors at Tondu Primary School were all devastated to learn of the death of Logan Mwangi and the school community remains shocked and deeply saddened by his loss. As a friendly, energetic, and popular little boy Logan leaves us with many fond memories. He was a loving, sweet-natured child who was polite and articulate at all times.
Logan was always smiling and was described in court by his own teachers as having the kind of smile that could light up a classroom. He was a highly inquisitive child who enjoyed his lessons, particularly when using the outdoor classroom where he would have great fun with his friends.
Logan loved playing with his classmates, especially games like hide-and-seek or pretending to be superheroes. His favourite character was always Spiderman and he would display a keen and vivid imagination in his games.
Ultimately we remember Logan as being a bright, happy child who was caring and loving and an absolute pleasure to teach. As a school community we continue to feel his loss and to offer support to one another as we look towards the future. We are also united in our condemnation of the terrible actions of those who ended Logan’s short life in such a cruel and brutal way and are grateful that they have been held accountable for their crimes. Our thoughts remain with Logan.
I’m sorry I don’t no why it keeps adding to last message
None of you saw Logan as a child to be cared for as part of your family'
Mrs Justice Jefford discussed Logan’s injuries and death during her sentencing remarks. She said: “Whatever time the ferocious assault happened on Logan he was for most of that Friday injured and dying. If anyone would have sought medical assistance for him he had an 80% chance of survival despite the severity of his injuries.
“Nothing could have provoked the attack other than the boisterous behaviour of a child confined to his room for a week, separated from his family.
“None of you saw Logan as a child to be cared for as part of your family.
“I find the physical assault on Logan was committed by you John Cole and [the youth]. Angharad Williamson I am also sure in this small flat, this fatal attack could not have taken place without your full knowledge and collusion.
“It cannot be known whether he slumped into unconsciousness or fell unconscious immediately.
“In a final act of callousness all three of you agreed to cover up Logan’s death as an accident. John Cole and [the youth] have taken Logan from the flat flung over John Cole’s shoulder and dumped him in the river.
“He was placed well out into the water to make it look like he wandered off or drowned or to provide an explanation for his injuries. The stories you told about flytipping in the river was to disguise your wrongdoing.You regarded dumping Logan’s body as akin to dumping rubbish.”
Attachments
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Chunkeylaydee
VIP Member
Thank you Cat Lady.
I wonder when they will be sentenced. In Scotland it’s usually a month after conviction.
I wonder when they will be sentenced. In Scotland it’s usually a month after conviction.
lettie0507
Member
I think prisons need to be more like in America . I've read you really are scared of dropping the soap in some prisons over there . These would rot in a open cell with bars but here the prisons are pathetic in comparison for serious offenders. Hope they rot
Chunkeylaydee
VIP Member
Does a life sentence mean you can be recalled to prison if you are released after the minimum term if you break the law again?
Pulltheotherone
VIP Member
Yes it is being aired in my region.
I hope tomorrow is VV severe for these creatures.
I hope tomorrow is VV severe for these creatures.
Starting point of 30 years in prison, prosecutor says
Turning to the sentencing guidelines prosecutor Caroline Rees QC says all defendants will be subject to life imprisonment with the youth receiving life in a young offenders’ institution.
She suggests the guidelines indicate the starting point for the adult defendants should be 30 years.
Angharad Williamson lets out a small gasp but continues to bow her head.
Describing the seriousness of the case prosecutor Caroline Rees QC tells the court: “Logan Mwangiwas only five years old and was of particularly tender years.” Mrs Justice Jefford said Logan was 3ft 5in tall and weighed 3st 1lb.
The prosecutor continued: “Logan was physically and emotionally vulnerable at the time of his death, particularly those days leading up to his death when he had Covid and was isolated in his room.
“Both adult defendants were in a position of trust as his stepfather John Cole and his biological mother Angharad Williamson. These are people who Logan should have been able to trust, not kill him in the way they did in this case.
“The murderous assault on Logan involved extreme and forceful impact to cause internal injuries of those expected in a high-velocity road traffic collision or fall from great height.”
She reminded the court that as well as head and abdomen injuries, Logan sustained 56 sets of injuries.
Turning to the sentencing guidelines prosecutor Caroline Rees QC says all defendants will be subject to life imprisonment with the youth receiving life in a young offenders’ institution.
She suggests the guidelines indicate the starting point for the adult defendants should be 30 years.
Angharad Williamson lets out a small gasp but continues to bow her head.
Describing the seriousness of the case prosecutor Caroline Rees QC tells the court: “Logan Mwangiwas only five years old and was of particularly tender years.” Mrs Justice Jefford said Logan was 3ft 5in tall and weighed 3st 1lb.
The prosecutor continued: “Logan was physically and emotionally vulnerable at the time of his death, particularly those days leading up to his death when he had Covid and was isolated in his room.
“Both adult defendants were in a position of trust as his stepfather John Cole and his biological mother Angharad Williamson. These are people who Logan should have been able to trust, not kill him in the way they did in this case.
“The murderous assault on Logan involved extreme and forceful impact to cause internal injuries of those expected in a high-velocity road traffic collision or fall from great height.”
She reminded the court that as well as head and abdomen injuries, Logan sustained 56 sets of injuries.
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Its_Me
VIP Member
Glad I saw the notifications for this thread I thought the sentencing was tomorrow. I’d have liked to see them get whole life tariffs. Abuse, murder of a child and attempt to conceal the body. Agree with you @Miss Perla but don’t think any of the sentences are good enough.
Its_Me
VIP Member
Don’t the family court usually go by what is advised by CAFCASS which is essentially the information they gather from the SS?
GingerJones50
Active member
The baby cannot be mentioned and neither can his previous offending because both are children of the offenders. There are now strict controls across the board meaning that information about the very existence of innocent, minor children in cases like this can’t be reported which means there are restrictions on reporting on that offending. This is because similar info allowed a rape victim to be identified via the Baby P case. The other woman can’t be identified either because of her privacy (I believe she is also a vulnerable person) so there is little more they can say on that.
Reading between the lines on the 2 households, it seems like although there may have been an element of maximising benefits, it may also have been because Cole wasn’t allowed to live there full-time until shortly before Logan’s death, because of his previous offending. Seems like when Mulligan needed a home and Cole wanted to take him, the judge wasn’t happy about just giving him to Cole, but he saw Williams as a stable, reliable and caring figure and was happy for Mulligan to be with Cole as long as Williams was also in the household so signed off on the whole family living together full-time 5 days before Logan’s death.
We’ll find out in the report into social services etc. I suspect there is going to be a lot of criticism that services were hyper-focused on Mulligan’s needs which meant
I don’t think he’d ever be allowed to live with a child again, even if he was deemed rehabilitated. IIRC John Venables re-offending finally started being dealt with when he got into a relationship with someone with a child.I don’t agree with the rehabilitation bit for that young boy, he sounds too far gone for that. Not many will agree with me, but I have known kids with troubled pasts not behave a fraction of how bad he was. Imagine he got out and got a partner who had a child? It doesn’t bear thinking about really. That poor little boy must’ve had such a horrific life. All 3 of them bullied him, mistreated him, the poor dad I feel for, god bless him how awful knowing your child was going through that and you couldn’t save them because you didn’t know. I personally hope they never see the light of day again. I hope they get bullied the way they did Logan, and they never get a minutes peace again. Heartbreaking. The only case I’ve ever felt for the mother was the Star case. It’s clear as day AW was just as cruel to him and knew exactly what danger he was in. There isn’t even a word to describe her. RIP Logan, you’ll finally get some peace now
It was for ‘24 hours in Police Custody’.
GingerJones50
Active member
She’s a piss poor actress.
DollyDiamondxo
Chatty Member
Yes I saw that, the girl had had an operation on her foot and he would stand on her feet to cause her pain. And well, if Cole was who he looked up to, he’d obviously seen him be very violent too. Logan’s father seemed so nice and decent, why couldn’t she of just given him custody if she couldn’t cope with him I’ll never understand why these people, or monsters more like, do that. The child will have family who love them and want to care for them and still they won’t give them up
Papparazzo1
Well-known member
Does anyone know when the sentencing is?
Terflife
Member
Normally in crown for serious to the worst cases it can (majority of the time) be anything from a few days to a couple of so weeks.
On the last thread a woman said one serious case was a month from verdict to sentencing.
There'd be a few reasons why there's different timescales. Also as there's a youth who's got anonymity on him they'd be all laws etc to contend with.
I reckon AW & JC will get life min 25 before consideration of parole.
The lad I think about 13. ??
@Chunkeylaydee If you go back to the first thread on this , my comment about why I think he'll get 13 is 2nd from last.
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Milktray
VIP Member
Ok, well maybe we all misread each others. @yo_bunnykin never suggested that he intended to kill, so I was confused why you replied with what you did.
I agree, it doesn't matter in this case. Every case is different.
The poster was merely making a comparison towards sentencing. On paper, sex offences appear to be less serious than murder. But the question raised, by the poster, was why a sex offender can get a higher sentence than a child murderer.
Maybe not necessarily the right thread to discuss but it's a perfectly good debate to have.