constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

Silverback · Feb 28, 2023

So this poor baby would have been the third child she had taken away from her? I’m sorry but she is an awful piece of shit. I get what is being said about coercive control (I’ve been in that kind of abusive relationship situation myself) BUT to be such an appalling mother is beyond reproach. I grew up with a mother that always put herself and her boyfriend first and the effects on me were utterly devastating. He may have been an arsehole but she had the chance to get me away from him every single day. She didn’t. She stuck by him. And that is exactly what I see has happened here.

EllsBellsWells · Mar 2, 2023

pommobear said:
So just to clarify, you think mothers have more of a responsibility to ensure their babies don't come to harm than fathers do? Apologies if that isn't what you meant but it reads that way.

This discussion really highlights the many ways in which we hold women to a higher standard than men. Women have to work harder, put their bodies through hell, live up to unrealistic expectations and then take the lions share of responsibility for stuff. Even more so when horrendous things like this happen. We often say women have a ‘mothers instinct’ without questioning why men don’t have one too- mostly because they get away with doing less.

To be absolutely clear- I am not defending her. But until we know any more then he is just as responsible as she is.

Cucumberthunder · Feb 28, 2023

It's possible to be both a victim and a perpetrator. And that's what I think has happened here. What she has done to the baby is abhorrent, but I don't doubt she has suffered through all of this. She will need significant help as well as punishment for what she has done.

upyernelly · Mar 15, 2024

SELdnGal said:
https://supportnotseparation.blog/ this is the group

Not one of those articles that I could see, are peer reviewed and from a legitimate source.
This group is clearly an echo chamber where shit parents go to find others who validate them.
It is very difficult to make the threshold for removal, I have lost count of the number of children I’ve taken to meet parents who are shit. The contact is shit. The parents spout this shit about ‘bonuses’ we get for separating their children during contact (if they ever turn up), and the children are sometimes so frightened and sad, I’ve had children wet themselves but the court still orders them to see their parents because of the parents rights.
It has to be completely FERAL with a real risk before a court decides on removal.
There are always exceptions but they are thankfully rare.
Children do better with their own families, even if their families are shit. All the evidence proves this. Good practice is keeping families together with support that is always the aim. We spend millions on family support and I know in my affluent region we get 400 referrals per month from families asking for help and the teams are getting bigger and bigger. The emphasis is on support.
These people don’t have two brain cells to rub together.

DianaBanana · Wednesday at 11:47 AM

Aristocrat Constance Marten and Mark Gordon will face retrial over death of baby

Jury in previous manslaughter trial was discharged at the Old Bailey last week

www.independent.co.uk

There will be a retrial

Lynn’ssnazzycardigan · Mar 16, 2024

The cold is a massive thing for newborns. I remember when my youngest son was born in hospital and I didn’t know how to work the lights or shut the window in the room. He arrived very quickly (the midwife had gone to get a pack to break my waters as she thought I was being dramatic when I said he would arrive any minute). She went off her nut at the poor medical student who had had to deliver him (read panic, shout encouragement and furiously pat my leg as he popped out

) for leaving the window open and he had to be put in the incubator/resuscitair thingy with a hat on until the room warmed up.

Just wanted to say thank you for being kind when I share my experiences of the care system. I’m honestly not fishing for compliments or thinking I’m better than anyone who went through similar and didn’t turn it around (except maybe these two selfish creatures!) I just want to add to the discussion if I think of something useful and I won’t be offended if it’s not acknowledged or if anyone thinks badly of me because of it. Time moves so slowly and painfully every hour you’re separated but for children time is not your friend. They hit milestones and grow so quickly that if you don’t seem to be making progress then they need to be settled somewhere you are not in order to develop normally and feel secure. It’s a hard process to go through because all your failings are laid out in black and white and discussed at length at every meeting. Sometimes it just feels like you are under attack and will never be able to redeem yourself. You could succumb to self pity and lose sight of the fact you need to swallow your pride and focus on the children. I can imagine it’s easier to be in denial about it, or to try and minimise the devastation you have caused your children by letting them down so badly. My children have been back with me for some time now but we are still picking up the pieces and trying to reassure them they are safe and secure. If I was trying to blame others and not addressing the problems of the past I don’t think we would ever achieve that. It’s this lack of insight I find so frustrating when hearing from CM. Even if she felt she was doing her best in difficult circumstances she should accept that her best was nowhere near good enough for any of her children and the way Victoria was treated was appalling. All to prove a point and keep their trophy. It’s so sad.

ChiaraRimini · Feb 20, 2024

Family courts are full of people who don’t think they’ve done anything wrong and that social services want to remove their kids for no reason.
In exactly the same way that prisons are full of innocent men.

pommobear · Jan 25, 2024

Mascaragirl said:
I’ve just read that one out of the previous four babies, they abandoned in hospital after she had given birth. Literally walked out. Disgusting

Yes and then they wouldn't let her back in because she refused to do a covid test. I'm telling you a deep rooted and very misguided distrust of medical professionals is clearly a big factor in all this. Unfortunately the Internet has made it all too easy for charlatans to spread anti science bullshit.

CabalofBolorneaise · Mar 7, 2024

I personally don’t think she’s faking mental illness, I think she fully believes everything she’s saying and the clearly long term paranoia has been there for years - not just pre or post-partum.

As for why the defence hasn’t pushed for a diagnosis for mitigation, I don’t know - I assume neither of them would cooperate. Which in itself shows it’s unlikely she’s faking IMO - if she was going for faking it for mitigation she’d have pursued a diagnosis. If she/the defence had tried that and they’d been found not to have MH issues the prosecution would surely have used that against them and they haven’t.

Mental illness doesn’t always present itself in palatable ways and people can be evil and callous by nature and also mentally ill. They don’t exclude each other.

KatieMorag · Mar 13, 2024

I mean if she's going to play the Jesus card, I hope the prosecution point out that Jesus was swaddled and not just zipped up inside Mary's puffa jacket.

And that they did TRY very hard to find a room at the inn. And that Bethlehem in December is warmer than the UK in January. And that modern thought is pretty much agreed that even the bible doesn't say he was born in a barn but in the basemen of a relative's house. Oh and that it's all a story from thousands of years ago.

She's utterly fucking deluded. Did she really think the jury would be like 'Ah, good point!'

heretoreaditall2019 · Jan 26, 2024

Unfortunately appears the baby spent time when alive in the bag, source below (thank you @Dogmuck!)

Mokie · Jan 26, 2024

I think they were carrying baby Victoria around in the Lidl bag. They knew the police were looking for them and they were all over the media. Hence why they dumped the buggy. The Lidl bag would have been less conspicuous. I don’t think baby Victoria would have been in good health and probably wasn’t squirming or crying like a newborn. I imagine she was probably quite floppy and whimpering if anything. Witnesses observed she was just wearing a babygrow. No hat, sock or mittens, she didn’t stand a chance. They had money to pay for the taxis so why not buy her a coat and blankets? Honestly this pair of scumbags. Can you imagine the difference in reporting if she wasn’t an aristo and she was off a council estate? I hope they both go to prison for a very long time but will likely be a few years if that. Selfish pair of bastards.

rosieflowers · Mar 4, 2023

I just think it's completely facile to sit here and say they are 'evil' or a 'murdering bitch' and 'you hope they get what's coming to them' and why not throw in 'bring back the death penalty' for good measure

Nobody is trying to excuse what they have done rather I think I and others in this thread are trying to understand how it happened (because it is so far outside of what most people can ever imagine doing) because that's the only way to prevent something similar happening in future.

Whether that would mean more robust support for women in controlling relationships, longer sentences and more tracking for violent sex offenders, the obvious one would be more intensive support for severe mental health issues and a better funded social services .... because all of those issues that we have seen in this case are very real and though this is an extreme case they actually affect millions of mainly women every day. I'm sure most of us know someone affected by e.g. postnatal depression for example

But sitting here and calling her an evil cunt and othering her by saying she is basically not human and not deserving of understanding achieves nothing other than making you feel comfortable, safe and warm in thr knowledge that you would never do anything like that. Even though it's only 'There but for the grace of god go I'

Eltonjohnsflorist · Feb 6, 2024

I know it’s not funny but I am laughing at her giving her fake name as arabella. Posh twat

stardust21 · Mar 1, 2023

AlanBanan said:
Seeming the scandals that social services has had, especially with children dying from neglect and abuse the past few years, even though most children who were the victim were previously known to social services. Yet they weren’t taken from their parents,
and in most cases these were working class people.

What I’m getting at is, how bad was the situation that social workers were gonna to take a baby from an aristocrat? Because if they weren’t taking children from the people who haven’t got a pot to piss in and had numerous visits and allegations towards them, you have to just know that whatever was going on in Constance’s home was even worse than we can think.

There is a myth that SS jump in at the earliest opportunity just to interfere, but it’s not true.

There are around 80,000 kids in the care system, and bluntly one main reason is because they (rightly) try and keep children with their birth parents for as long as possible, giving as many opportunities as possible. It means that many children aren‘t adopted because they’re too old (blunt but sadly true).

It’s a really tough one, I don’t really know what the right answer is here, but I do know that children are being failed.

For SS to take your child off you at birth there is a really really good reason. There was a reason the police were doing a nationwide man hunt for these people, and it was because they believed the child was at risk.

Just a really sad case

I hope they didn’t suffer.

BigMavis · Mar 1, 2023

Didn't need to happen. Bad choices. Bad decisions. An inability to listen to professionals who had the the best intentions regarding the welfare of children involved with these very irresponsible people.
Sad. Senseless. Unnecessary suffering.

Silverback · Mar 3, 2023

CabalofBolorneaise said:
I think there's some serious mental illness going on in both of them and I would speculate that it's likely to a level that is going to make it quite difficult for the experts/police to work out if there is coercive control (going either way, MG on CM or vice versa) or if it's just two deeply unwell people feeding off each other to create their own little reality.

That said, I think it might also be quite difficult to unravel the why of leaving the baby there, eg whether it was the equivalent of leaving them in a pile of rubbish or wanting to have the poor little mite close to them. There's valid arguments both ways and I have a feeling this is one of the cases there might never really be closure on.

I know you meant no harm here but I’m so sick of people putting down appalling behaviour to being ‘mentally ill’. There are millions of people living with mental illness who don’t kill babies. Equally, there are plenty of sane people who kill. It is insulting to the mentally unwell to say things like this.

Okgolightly · Mar 1, 2023

InTheDollsHouse said:
Yes, or a pre-existing condition, or a genetic condition which is known to authorities but not the general public.

Or maybe they are just two really shitty, selfish people who do deserve what’s coming to them.

We don’t know.

All we know is that a baby has died.
And a mother is grieving. Again. After losing older children, she has now lost a baby. A baby she tried desperately - rightly or wrongly - to keep in her care. Something went wrong and she wasn’t able to keep that baby safe.

Maybe she is an awful person. I don’t know. But I am a mother and I can’t imagine her pain.

I may come across as an evil bitch but I actually couldn’t give a flying fuck about what pain she is it isn’t in. She wasn’t able to keep that baby safe from the minute she made the decision to go on the run with her partner. She also wasn’t able to keep the other 3 children she had taken off her safe either, so you would think that at some point she would have gotten a clue as to her completely inability to competently care for her children. No. She has no sympathy from me. I reserve it all for her innocent little baby and her other children.

Allmyownopinion · Mar 22, 2024

Just read a young woman’s post whose twins were taken into care, claiming she was the perfect mother and SS only took the kids because they were mixed race……further down her post admits her violent partner beat her unconscious so the babies were left alone for hours and all only saved when ambulance crew discovered them, oh & admitted SS supported her and her children in housing away from him but she kept taking the kids back to him despite them telling her the damage it would do to them, kids then witnessed him knocking out all her teeth and then she admitted she turned to drink & drugs & then refused to engage with SS when concerned neighbours reported her kids screaming crying when her & the fella were fighting…….but yes they removed them for nothing, she was a great mum & they always had matching clothes which proves it

honestly despair I need to stop looking at these groups, sad for her but sadder for the traumatised kids who they literally don’t give a fuck about!

Emsie · Mar 30, 2024

As with most things no one talks about social worker success stories. For every arthur, logan and Star, thankfully there are 100s and 100s of sw success stories. My family is one. @Lynn’ssnazzycardigan is another.

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