constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

I was in Nando’s earlier and there was a dad and a little boy (around 2.5-3 years) on the next table.
The dad was so attentive to his child, so patient, he was saying to his son, “who’s daddy’s best friend” and “I love you so much”. It broke me (in a good way).

It’s so alien to me, my dad did not love me and showed mostly contempt towards me and my mum does love me in her own way, but has never really shown it. I never really smiled or laughed as a child and then I realised as an adult, it’s because they never did. My upbringing was mental health issues and alcohol abuse.

I never realise parents like the dad in Nando’s exist because I didn’t see it myself. This is why I don’t want children. I wouldn’t know how to love them in the right way because I never saw it myself. The world would be a better place if more people could recognise that they will never be able to parent.

I am enjoying the artist's rendering of the judge watching her evidence

Anyone who’s been camping off season will know that winter appropriate sleeping bags don’t come with starts or unicorns.

So glad to see a thread on here about this case as I’ve only read Facebook/twitter and boy it’s WILD out there! Tattle gets a bad rep but I always find in real life cases to be the most factual/ balanced comments

TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo said:

You said it was something visible so I assumed FAS and went to have a look at her photos. There are some features maybe but nothing conclusive or that jumps out at me visually.

I'd be interested to know what condition you were referring to and what makes you think that? I think people on here are able to have sensible conversations and know that a suggestion of something is not demonising a whole group of people.

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Yeah, thanks. I'm not trying to be annoying by stoking up rumours or doing a "I know something but I can't tell you!", it's just this case has brought up a lot of feelings for me for many reasons and I can't really get them out anywhere except here. So I'm not writing that comment to provoke a reaction from other people, just trying to write out something that's getting to me, somewhere where I can say it.

If anyone's curious, I'll put it under a spoiler so I'm not clogging up the thread with unfounded speculation, people can decide to ignore it if they choose. I just know how things got so out of hand on the Nicola Bulley case because people were speculating awful things like the partner killed her, or she killed herself, etc and I don't want to start a pile-on of rumours or accusations.

So, before I say this I want to be clear that this is useless speculation, and only my opinion based on personal history. I'm in no way pushing other people to conclude this, and in no way suggesting that she did this awful crime because of it, but it hits close to home for me and seeing her just brought it crashing down on me:


I don't want to get into a fight about this, because it's painful to me, so if people disagree, well then they disagree. I'm not trying to spread misinformation, I've been clear that this is an opinion with no factual basis. It's just really weighing on my mind now because of this case. This is what I think will come out in the wash.

Loved you in their own way - the abusive husband that beat you up for decades whenever they wanted to. Broke your bones. In front of their kids.
Loved you in their own way- the parent that enjoyed belittling, taunting and emotionally abusing you to the point you’re left as an adult with a lifetime of mental health issues.
Loved you in their own way - the parent that put their drug use above your starving stomach. Put their boyfriend before their own child being abused by said boyfriend. That married said boyfriend despite knowing what they do.
Loved you in their own way- the parent that was so neglectful and selfish that they would rather you freeze to death, scream for hours and finally turn to mush in a lidl bag.
Gaslighting absolute bullshit.
There is making mistakes, nobody is perfect. There is realising you should have done things differently and then doing what you can to make amends. There are forgivable mistakes and actions in times of total personal breakdown that do not show a pattern of abuse and are worked upon.
These two ain’t that.

What is it about keeping the baby with them despite it causing her her actual death is indicative of “love” in any kind of way. There are all sorts of awful nefarious reasons they could have wanted that baby with them at all costs. Ranging from the bizarre to the downright depraved (we are talking about an incredibly violent sex offender). Keeping her with them is the reason she is dead. It’s an utter insult to the baby to call it love in my opinion.
What about the other children they kept in the exact same conditions who are only alive because they were taken away means that they were capable of love? If keeping this baby with them to the point she died is “loving her in their own way” - were they just not fond of the baby they couldn’t be fucked with and left in a hospital then? They literally don’t appear to care less in their arrest video. They literally say why does it matter and argue the toss. The baby is fucking referred to as “evidence” by her own mother. It’s rancid.
And no, me saying this isn’t stopping anybody from having their own opinion so please scroll on by and don’t @ me. Anybody can have any opinion they like and I couldn’t care less about said opinion but it is absolutely my opinion that describing what they did as “love”is a grotesque misuse of the word in any context and an insult to what the baby went through which was likely a slow, terrifying, painful and undignified death. If somebody is telling you that they are loving you in their own way but they are abusing and neglecting you to the point you could or actually do die - spoiler - they don’t love you.

Maybe sounds weird, but I feel so much worse about the poor child's life than their death? I mean, the death is dreadful, but I feel like I'm so much more upset thinking about how she likely only ever knew cold and illness and parents who didn't love her. God, I'm in tears.

Been behind on the threads so sorry for jumping backwards on discussions. I can speak from my experience. 2 of my children were placed with a family member and spouse when they were removed from my care. I was grateful they didn’t go to strangers. But it was a mammoth task for my relative (who had never had a child of their own). When I had tried to thank them they said “well I didn’t really have any choice”. I later found out their spouse had told one of my children so, and that they didn’t want him there. I try not to hate this person because if it wasn’t for my failings nobody would have been put in that position. But to make a child feel unwanted at their most vulnerable point is unforgivable. I suppose what I’m trying to say is that people who are foster carers for a living want to and expect to take children in, and receive training in how to support a child with trauma. They’re not having their whole life turned upside down and they have the choice if they don’t think a particular child would do well with them. Family carers are often dropped in the deep end with not much notice, very little support or guidance and may do so only because they feel compelled. I wouldn’t look down on anyone who is asked to take on a relative’s children and says no. Sometimes it’s the right thing.
CM/MG children may well have had a bad experience at a placement, nothing is ever guaranteed and as someone else pointed out there may have been another child there who was problematic. But who’s fault was it they were there in the first place?! The same people who were unwilling to make the changes to get them back home! They are just the type to dangerously neglect their children and then make a huge stink about some minor thing the carer has or hasn’t done, there’s a lot of that about. If you two morons could do it better then why didn’t you?
I’m wondering also about that gap when nobody knew where they had gone. I’m guessing now they were being housed/“helped” by one of this network of crackpots. On that note, I wonder if the defence witness will be one of these people? They would do anything to get a platform to air their grievances and toxicity towards “the system”.

Justacatindisguise said:

The Facebook huns still can't accept that anything bad might have happened to this kid what is wrong with them omg

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Child protection is one huge conspiracy to some people. Until something tragic happens and then it's all 'where were the social workers?' it's maddening.

You don’t get a refund on your holiday if you do jury service.
The judicial system can’t pay people to not go on holiday.
Many can only take holiday when schools allow, or for people in manufacturing it’s restricted to the shutdown weeks which are mandated by the company.

We all want justice for Victoria.
We all want them both to be found guilty.

But it’s in no way the jury’s fault that this trial has run over by (so far) 9 weeks.

We don’t even know if it is holiday. It could be caring responsibilities or a medical treatment or something absolutely essential which is - to that person - a higher priority than making the trial a few days shorter.
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neroli said:

Jury service obligations should come first in my opinion. Holidays can be rebooked but a baby's life can't.

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If a juror was expected to prioritise this trial over everything else, that juror may well no longer be able to be impartial, rational or take the time needed to do it properly and fairly.

If I was made to cancel a holiday (or any number of other things) I might feel really upset, annoyed, furious, and that would mean I couldn’t continue the deliberations in the way I should.

This is going to sound really blunt but I can’t sugar coat it.

The baby cannot be brought back to life. She is dead. Nothing can change that.

What’s important is having a fair trial with an impartial jury, led by the facts not their feelings.

(Also if they are found innocent they’ll have had extra long on remand away from each other)

Just waiting for all the noise saying its not her fault, its coercive control, he made her do it, it was her mental health etc etc.

If they've allowed the baby to come to harm, they're both evil.

spillallthetea said:

@Bleekemolen did you manage to go to court today ? Claw clip in situ? No reporting that we can see so far today ? our noses are hanging off

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Yes I did!! I’m just home!!

I’m not sure how much I can say and so will take a look at what has been reported before I do.

I had lunch in a coffee shop near the Old Bailey - it was called Tattle and I thought of you all!!

Beggars belief. Woman on trial for living with her newborn baby in a tent with no clothes or medical care until the infant perished and then carrying it around in a bag while it decayed, with trash piled on top of it accuses some foster parents of being bad parents because they let the kids watch too much TV. FFS. She really is an utter idiot. I'm glad she got up there and spouted this shite because I think it proves that Mark Gordon is not the only problem here - she's just as culpable with her arrogance and stupidity.

I genuinely envy people who can't understand that there are selfish, nasty, egotistical, callous people in the world, who treat their children like possessions, or like meaningless garbage. I think if you had more knowledge of some of the types of people that come to the attention of SS you'd know that there are Constance Martens and Mark Gordons all over the place - these two are only in the news because they took it to extremes and because of their unusual background. They don't need to be explained away with 'illness' - they just are a version of a type of person that exists all over the place, and does harm to numerous children by prioritising their own selfish wants every single day. I'd LOVE to be so naive as to say that 'they must have loved her really' and that anyone who lives in squalor or treats a child badly must be ill. No - they are exactly who they are.

Don’t want to Merail but want to say thank you to people for the kind words xx I know social services get a bad rap and I admit I hated them at times but they are there to help and will do so if you make good use of them. Removing children is sometimes the best option even if just temporarily and a placement order really is their last resort if you don’t help yourself.

Constance should be forcibly sterilised at this point.

Lucyxxxx said:

Abit pedantic but I'll bite. What's so tapped in the head about not sitting around waiting to give birth so your baby can be forcibly ripped from you? Madness how some people think.

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How can you not now see why the baby was about to be removed? They reckoned the child was at risk, guess what they've been living in a tent for 54 days with the poor thing and it's likely now not alive. Is that not exactly why a child should be removed? Predictable neglect and death?

Mokie said:

There has been rightly in my opinion a lot of criticism of the police in recent times. My heart goes out to the officers involved in this case.

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The poor person that made the discovery, that’s something that will live with you forever.

From Twitter:

@CourtNewsUK
Constance Marten is asked why her 'Daddy Bear' Mark Gordon walked about with plastic bags on his feet. ’Mark’s just Mark, I don’t know. Mark is Mark, he always does things like that.'

Phwoar, such a catch, whatta hunk!