constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

thegirlwho2020 said:

There’s probably a really simple explanation on this but does anyone know why the police didn’t release any details about previous children being taken into care and that was why there was such a panic to find them? I can’t help feeling if people knew this baby was def at risk people would’ve been more on the lookout? That poor baby never stood a chance and I can’t find one iota of sympathy for its parents

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Sorry, but the clue that this baby was at great risk was the nationwide police appeal to find it and it’s parents. Just pass the information to the police without somehow thinking you’re in any position to judge without (or with) information.
Confidentiality, to protect the innocent children is the reason why their life stories were not plastered over the media for people’s titillation.
Sorry if I’m sounding harsh, but I’m pissed off.

Sorry for the slight off topic but seeing as how we are sharing opinions / experiences i thought i would add mine.

As i have shared with others on the NB thread I have a daughter who suffered severely with mental health (serious self-harm & suicide attempts). I was CRYING out for help for her and she was failed by CAHMS (like many others are). One incident lead me to call 999, the police / ambulance did not turn up (they were too busy ) which lead me to baracade myself into her bedroom with her to keep her safe for the next 8 hours. Anyway, the police called the next morning to ask if we still needed assistance. I asked then to come out and see me because i needed help in dealing with it. The officer that came was so kind and helpful and he referred me to social services.

I was called by a duty social worker within 2 hours and although she said we didn't need them she put me in touch with people to support my daughter and us as a family!! That help was absolutely invaluable and without that contact i don't think my daughter would be here now

So got to OB just before 2pm session. No friends or family for her in the line up, but 5-6 supporters of her who have been writing to her in prison.

Got speaking with them and they support her because they think it was her family accusing him of DV that the other 4 children got taken away. They are completely supportive of her and think her family and SS are to blame for the situation that CM and MG found themselves in. They asked me about her family and I (perhaps stupidly) said that I could understand their reasons for concern. Got pounced on for that and asked if it was because of his skin colour?? When I said no and that it was because of his previous convictions, their attitude was that everyone makes mistakes when they are younger.

So sorry if this offends people, but I hold my hands up and say that I would not be happy if my son or daughter brought home a convicted rapist as their partner. I’ve done stupid things when I was younger, but nothing as serious as that.

I missed the part about Tom Little talking about their toxic relationship, and saw him picking up on all the big lies she had said during her evidence/cross examination. The buggy was in court and he talked about how she tried to mislead the jury about the buggy they bought with a sleeping bag and muff. He explained how they had got the exact buggy with serial number and there was no bag or muff.

He also said how inconceivable it was that a black cab or taxi would not take a buggy onboard and that their real reasoning was because the buggy would not fit in the tent that they planned to live in.

The next lie to expose was the evidence about a car seat. The fact that no evidence of a car seat was seen by any of the drivers that drove them around, or found in their car when it was found. He highlighted that a blanket and placenta was found after the fire, but no car seat.

The next area he went on to was the avoidance of MG to give evidence. Highlighted the fact that he was happy to ask for food and comment how good the crisps were, but not comment on where baby Victoria was. Went through his police statement and highlighted all the points when he could have given simple answers but chose not to. There were so many, but one example asked when his daughter was born… most people would remember Christmas Eve as the date, but not MG. Claimed MG had not given evidence because he knew that he had not given the same story as CM and so it was better to let the “more intelligent and articulate” person take the stand. There was also parts where his police statements were read out about the sleeping arrangements that seemed to contradict what she had said surrounding the death of Victoria. There was then a break.

He then went on to say how all the other children were taken lawfully (he def used that word) into care and not to believe the spin CM had put on things. He said that if they had really wanted to keep her, that they would have engaged with SS, etc.

That was it for today.

As I said earlier, neither seemed outraged about what was said. Lots of note passing between the two of them which I’m surprised is alllowed. She seemed tired. Lots of yawning and no tears or emotion.

Not sure if I can get back there tomorrow or not, but will do my best
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One thing I forgot was that MG mentioned in his police interview that baby Victoria did not always sleep a lot and cried. This was contradicting what CM has said in the stand about accusing witnesses of making up stories that they heard her crying, etc. Tom Little said that he would come on to this. Perhaps it will be tomorrow?

I think a lot of tomorrow and Wednesday will be him finishing off and then the defence barristers. Reckon the jury will be out on Thursday

The biggest F U to authorities would be for them to find Constance and MG months later, settled with a happy baby Victoria in a comfy warm home and proving them all wrong. They have only solidified opinion that they are not fit to parent. Wild that the anti SS groups can’t see this.

Constance is just yet another woman who cares more about a bad man than about her own children. Did you see her outrage when they were daring to arrest her beloved Mark. The dramatics! 'Oh my god, I can't, I can't watch! Leave him alone! He's not well! Let him eat his food... he's starving! Daddy Bear!'

Where was that kind of passion and care for her baby daughter while she was alive? Where was that level of distress when they were asking her about her tiny, recently deceased baby girl? She is beyond callous. And no - don't buy the 'not well' comments either. Some people are just callous. she prioritised the person she cared about most - and it most certainly wasn't poor baby girl.

Kinderbelle said:

You only have to peek into the social services pages on Facebook full of Mothers proclaiming that they have been treated unfairly to see that they spin their own fantasy narrative and that they 100% believe their own lies. I saw it in one mother who I knew personally (the reason I joined the group to begin with) who swore BLIND social had nabbed her kids completely unfairly and that the house was a mess but it was "just mess, not abuse and they were fed and clothed and loved"...... what she failed to mention was that their clothes were stained and torn and stank of cat piss (you could smell it just walking by them on the school run) and the "just mess" was cat shit and rubbish and mouldy food piled high, she never washed their clothes and they slept on piss covered mattresses on dirty blankets on the floor.

And it could be that she genuinely believe it wasn't that bad because, although their house was a rat infested shithole she didn't hit or abuse her kids like her parents did to her (and she did seem to genuinely love them and feed them and she was an incredibly kind person), and therefore, if she didn't get taken into while being physically abused then her kids shouldn't go into care purely for living in a shitpit of her making.

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I know one too...my cousin.. she's always social media harping on about how social services have targeted her and that they want to sell your children on at a profit. Apparently all social workers are on commission to steal babies. All her 'friends ' in the comments agreeing with her saying the same things happened to them ! YET....she doesn't once mention she is a massive crackhead and left her kids unattended to go sell herself for some crack rocks, had random men in the house and let her flat become a trap house! The kids were severely neglected and she spent every penny on drugs! No no no doesn't mention that...mother of the year in her own eyes. Luckily the children are doing okay according to her sister who got guardianship of them as they were put up for adoption! But apparently according to her sister she hasn't even asked about the kids, missed all court dates nor even engaged in any type of support or supervised visits yet posts old pics and tik toks of her kids with a sad song in the background!
Social media is full of these types of women. Don't want to change for their own kids so everyone else must be the problem...

heretoreaditall2019 said:

Unfortunately appears the baby spent time when alive in the bag, source below (thank you @Dogmuck!)

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I think they’ll know this because there was a later sighting of them with the baby alive in February. So if they’re on cctv with a buggy, then the buggy is gone but they’re carrying a bag it’s obvious where the baby is. They’re disgusting pieces of shit that didn’t give a flying fuck about that little girl. The fell asleep on her line is total and utter bullshit. She died from being outside with arsehole parents in the depths of winter. She likely died in that bag and was left in that bag. There’s clearly an extensive and lengthy history of child neglect/abuse and putting themselves before their children. There’s no romanticism to this story imo, they’re gross child murderers. Nobody with severe enough mental health issues to be unable to see their baby was in poor health or wouldn’t survive in the fucking woods in winter would be able to meticulously plan and evade detection. They’re cunts.

lattenosugar said:

I live a few miles from where they were last seen. No one will bat an eyelid to be honest I don’t even know my neighbours. It’s different in London.

I think the tent was to throw off the police. How can no other purchases be picked up on CCTV. There’s plenty of cash in hand sublet rentals on gumtree.

The man’s conviction was in 1989 when he was 14. He’s near 50s and she’s mid 30s. Both two consenting adults. There’s no bail or arrest warrant. - someone previously says on this thread why has the police not warned they are dangerous - probably because they are not.. however They must be of some kind of sound mind and not out of it that much on substances which have been suggested to have the ability to run this long from the police. So I am literally one of the people on FB saying let them live as long as the baby is well because there are missing vulnerable children who are not given the same media attention or monetary rewards and it’s heart breaking.

we are the only country to have secret courts, so say they were found and baby was removed etc. they the parents could never have their side of the story reported in the press. They can never discuss their case only with their solicitor.

secondly we are the only country in Western Europe to have an “at risk emotional abuse” clause. This was introduced by the tories Michael gove years ago. This gives social services the power to remove a baby at birth, without the parents ever given a chance. Without there being any evidence of harm.
given the dad had a serious criminal past this wouldn’t of done him any favours like with to ex drug addicts, ex MH ex care leavers etc and anyone with a past.
It’s cheaper and easier to remove a child at birth in this situations based on “at risk of emotional harm”. We don’t hear about cases because of secret courts.

A few years ago an Italian woman who came here for a course had a manic episode whilst pregnant. She had a C section against her will and baby removed from birth. Reasons were “at risk of emotional harm” The only reason why this was media reported was because she was Italian and the Italian government and press reported it which removed UK press restrictions.

the baby hasn’t been registered for a reason so that it’s harder for SS to make court proceedings for custody of the baby. If they’d had court proceedings it would’ve been much easier for them.

there is a solicitor called Ian Joseph’s that helps fund parents who are at risk of loosing their babies at birth. He encourages them to go to Ireland or France where “at risk of emotional abuse” doesn’t exist and most families who would’ve lost their baby to adoption here are allowed to keep them abroad.

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You’re giving them a lot of credit when you literally don’t know any of their recent history.
Drugs? You don’t know. Mental Health? You don’t know. Self harm? You don’t know. Sectioned? You don’t know. Violence? You don’t know. Coercive control? You don’t know.
Are there any circumstances where, in your opinion, children should be taken away? Or do we just leave them all until they are murdered, raped, harmed in another way so you can say ‘see SW should have taken them away, it’s their fault’.

My best friend was in an abusive relationship and even when he used to barricade the bedroom door in at night time, to stop her going to the toilet incase she was cheating???!! In there . And make her piss in cups or bags or whatever. She still couldn’t understand why she should leave him. She thought he was “protecting” her because he loved her.
It wasn’t until her son was literally hours away from death a few years down the line and he wouldn’t ring for an ambulance, incase she fancied the paramedic that she finally woke up. 10 years he controlled her for. Now she’s fine I’ve got my friend back and she’s found some common sense and made so much progress. But back then when she met this arsehole. She turned overnight into his shadow. It was like she had, had a whole personality transplant. It was awful.
Really hope they find this lady and her baby and they are okay, I don’t think people realise sometimes how gripping it is being in a DV relationship. You lose so much of yourself, you think all you have left is the partner because every one else is gone, but you can’t see why they’ve gone

Seeming the scandals that social services has had, especially with children dying from neglect and abuse the past few years, even though most children who were the victim were previously known to social services. Yet they weren’t taken from their parents,
and in most cases these were working class people.

What I’m getting at is, how bad was the situation that social workers were gonna to take a baby from an aristocrat? Because if they weren’t taking children from the people who haven’t got a pot to piss in and had numerous visits and allegations towards them, you have to just know that whatever was going on in Constance’s home was even worse than we can think.

I’ve had social services involvement before due to mental health issues. I was in a very bad place mentally at the time (tried to end my life a number of times) but I did everything in my power to prove to SS I was a capable mother and did everything they asked me to do including attending therapy. That’s what a mother actually does not what they did, I would have rather give up my baby knowing they were alive and safe then not alive.

edit to say I still have my kids because I put them first like a mother should and got the help I needed

Axatogrind said:

Were you able to attend? I'd love to know your reaction to hearing the “Jesus survived in a barn, didn’t he?” comment in person

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QUOTE="spillallthetea, post: 18685767, member: 104694"]
Did you manage to go? Did you survive it? Is your mind reeling? Did you wear a claw clip? We have so many questions

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Yes I did manage to go!!

I got there for just after 9 and there was already people lining up outside. By 10 there were about 70 people.

If anyone does want to go, definitely get there early and a man in the line told me that there were a couple of shops nearby that will store your phone, etc for the day. I left my stuff at my office. Security really hot and one lady got turned away because her bag was too big.

CM had her hair back and no evidence of claw clip! Black trousers with a floral patterned shirt. She looks much more like her FB photos than she looked in the arrest film and I would say that the actress playing her part in the podcast sounds similar to her. She’s very well spoken.

This may sound strange, but, at times, it felt like she enjoyed being in court and having an audience. She was confident in her beliefs (particularly around her carrying Victoria) and almost to the point of arrogance. At times seemed to get exasperated by Mr Smith’s questions and quite snappy. One person that was also there in the gallery and had been a few times told me that yesterday she was a lot calmer than she had been on Monday.

Mr Smith is very patient and calm with her. She does go off topic and not really answer some of the questions and she rambles a bit. He keeps pushing her though but not in an aggressive manner.

In my opinion she’s absolutely not doing herself any favours by taking the stand. She’s deluded in a lot of what she says. I left thinking she was not very likeable and it must be exhausting and exasperating for the Judge, Jury and Prosecutors.

MG was there. He has definitely filled out since arrest and looks very different. I did not see them interact together, but he sat watching her intently the whole time. She mentioned him a few times and she is obviously loyal and supportive of him. I did not see any of her family.

The Jesus comment…. I could hear some people around me gasp and saw some shake their heads.

I’ve got to catch up with work today but am planning to go again tomorrow (if not adjourned). I will wear my claw clip now that I know it will get through Security!!

Mostly I'm angry as my beautiful baby will be traumatised his whole life. Taken from the one thing he loved the moment he was born (even if she is crap, he only knew her) and will have to process that sense of loss forever. His brain will not develop in the same way because of trauma and I can't love that away. Then she doesn't even bother to engage with him, collect our letters or write back. So I can't even tell him anything about her to plug those holes in his identity. And he doesn't deserve that. He deserves the world.
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Having an angry day today... sorry for the rant and derail.

Lucyxxxx said:

Abit pedantic but I'll bite. What's so tapped in the head about not sitting around waiting to give birth so your baby can be forcibly ripped from you? Madness how some people think.

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Forcibly ripped?

This woman has already proved herself incapable of keeping her children safe. Multiple times. Why does your sympathy lie with her and not with her latest child, born into the most awful and dangerous circumstances?

Of course I understand that Constance didn’t want to have her child taken away. What I don’t understand is why she thought living rough in sub-zero temps was better than engaging with authorities. The fact is she isn’t any more capable of keeping this baby safe than her other children.

After giving birth you bleed heavily, her hygiene must be horrific if she hasn't been able to wash for 2 months. The baby would of also needed cleaning and nappies. If she hasn't been eating enough her milk may of dried up and no resources to safely bottle feed either. The pressure of been on the run, walking the streets late at night, the weather, dealing with hormones and possibly the death of a baby won't of helped her mental state. It's just absolutely tragic that they hadn't thought this through and it has ended worse than what needed to be.

They’re selfish. They’ve let their baby come to harm rather than handing it over safely to authorities. There’s no way this has been done out of love and wanting to keep the baby. What parent can sit by and let their newborn freeze rather than get them help. There are plenty of safe places they could’ve left the baby.. I know it hasn’t confirmed that the baby has died but at this point I can’t see any other outcome.

Let's not argue with stupid guys. At the end of the day, someone who can try to defend what Constance and Mark did is not someone who is able to think logically themselves.

I really do think the baby has passed. Constance was constantly wearing the baby in past sightings and I think we can all empathise with her not wanting to be separated at all from the baby. I know with my own daughter I constantly babywore and breastfed and I completely understand the feeling of always wanting to be attached to your child, it's natural. That primal bond of mother and baby I do really empathise with Constance and it's why I think I've found this case so gripping. So I think the fact that they were out alone, not babywearing, no sign of the baby, is a very bad sign.

Not to mention all of the hypotheses put forward thus far about leaving the baby with some mysterious do-gooder or fellow SS avoider are all so far fetched as to be completely fantastic IMO

GM17 said:

It’s weird as I saw the pics of her and the kids on Facebook when they were babies/toddlers and they looked to be well fed and clean so maybe that was just for pics… it is so very strange!
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She also referred to them as her ‘’love bugs’’

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My partner's sister fosters their feckless alcoholic neice's child and said neice is constantly posting happy facebook photos with the child saying 'so gorgeous' 'growing up so fast' etc, you would think looking at them that she is a devoted mother, but in reality she rarely sees her and misses most of the visits because she is drunk most of the time. Photos don't mean anything unfortunately. She may have just been visiting them in care.

Mojojojo67 said:

Constance May have had PND but that doesn’t excuse her partner not seeking help for the welfare of the child.

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He's a wrongen aswell, the woman that he raped, he threatened to kill her children who were asleep in the next room if she didnt do everything he said. Regardless of whether he was 14 at the time and served his sentence, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Having worked in child protection for many years and supervised contact numerous times I can tell you categorically that Toots - despite her lofty sense of importance - is no better than the scummiest worst parents and human beings that I have ever witnessed.
It’s a script- just like the cheaters script. These people follow a script that absolves them of blame and puts the responsibilities on others. Nothing she is doing or saying is different from almost every bad parent I have had the misfortune to deal with.
Toots is not clever or original or any different, except for her accent. It’ll be very interesting to see if this impacts the outcome.