constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

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Lubylab

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The thing which sticks in my mind (and I recall one of the juror's as it was noted she sobbed) is the dirty teddy bear babygrow which was passed around in the evidence bag.

My own daughter had this very same babygrow last winter (it was a pack of 3 from primark - very thin just usual cotton) . I guess that's why I can't forget it. Just makes me so sad for that poor baby girl in the cold with no home comforts, warm water for bathing etc.

Let's hope the Judge's summing up reminds the jury of some important evidence from the start. Hoping they reach a verdict very soon.
 
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Square Peg

Square Peg

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After seeing those videos the way she treated Victoria, I don’t think I believe her explanation of the poor child’s demise. 😓
 
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FoxyBingo

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None of us really know what's happened, but what we do know is there is a baby missing somewhere, potentially deceased, and if not deceased potentially in danger/suffering. What we also know is that the parents of this baby are not cooperating with police to allow them to find that poor baby, dead or alive.

If they genuinely cared about that baby, they wouldn't have been living the way there were. If they cared about that baby now they've been caught, they'd tell the police where he or she is. Its abhorrent.
 
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iieee

iieee

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All 4 kids removed in January 2022 then she's pregnant again with Victoria within months of this. They just didn't care and had no interest in listening to any advice.

The description of the children being upset is heartbreaking and mirrors cases I know. Claim to love their children but can't be bothered to show up to see them. ☹

They were warned repeatedly that their lifestyle could lead to the death of their child, and now that it has, they want to blame the death on the people that tried to stop them. I am speechless.
 
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KatieMorag

KatieMorag

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maytoseptember said:
Even a child removed at birth and placed straight into the arms of a loving adoptive family (this never happens btw, just using it as an example of what we would consider a perfect scenario) will suffer lifelong trauma from that severance.

It’s knowing that your birth parents were too messed up to keep you. Or that they harmed you and so you were taken away. Or that they never wanted you and chose to give you up. Knowing that if they’d only valued you more than their chaotic lifestyle, maybe your life would have been different. Knowing that you don’t have a biological link to your parents, grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins. Knowing that your friends’ families aren’t like yours.

All that, plus all the guilt over loving your adoptive parents but still feeling so traumatised. Adopted adults who speak about this stuff on social media get told they should just be grateful. Surely adoption saved them from harm? And they are grateful, but they are also conflicted.

It’s so complex, but the fact remains that even though there will always be kids in the care system, and adoption is a much better option than a series of foster homes, it’s still fraught with complications, and adopted kids can grow up with all sorts of issues. I’m sure your friend is aware of all this from the time before her son was matched with her.
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Totally agree, and this is one of the reasons why I'm also completely against biological surrogacy in any form for any reason.

Tangent aside, I have zero sympathy for Constance Marten or her rapist boyfriend. All sympathy to the victim, who was given no chance at all - no medical help, no clothes, nappies, food. The comment about not being able to wash implies that the baby was very soiled too, which is deeply distressing to consider. I hope she goes to jail until she can't have any more children.

I have a close relative who's a foster carer and can tell you that SO many of the parents take photos with their kids during a visit (which in more than one case is against the rules of the contact order) and then post them on Facebook as 'my babies' etc. The kids are well fed, clothed etc - by my relative! Which is probably what you're seeing in the photos on C's Facebook.
 
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Yel

Yel

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Moderator
All, please agree to disagree respectfully where there's conflicts and move on. Rather than disrupting the thread. Thanks
 
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FFS_stopit

Active member
I do wonder why it is we (and the media) are so focused on CM and not MG…

Is it because of her privileged background and associated wealth or is it because she is a woman/mother or could it be because she is (and I hate to say this) white.

Why are there only a few comments on these threads speculating on what created the monster that is Mark Gordon? Something must have gone terribly terribly wrong in order for him to do what he did as a child and then to do this to poor Victoria. But for some reason (and I count myself in this too) we seem absolutely fixated on finding the why around Constance.

They are charged with the same offences, but at this point it’s almost as if she is being treated by the media, and to some degree this thread, as the main perpetrator and he is just an accomplice.

(Not pointing any fingers here, I absolutely include myself in this, it’s just something I’ve noticed and recognise is probably a result of the fact that I am a white mother born into privilege, and from the media perspective..almost certainly because her story generates more clicks, which generates money)
 
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gimmethattea

gimmethattea

Chatty Member
sebanna said:
It will be interesting, if the details of why CM and MG were deemed unfit to parent, comes out. In the podcast CM makes out it was all due to her falling out of the window, but it looked like it took two years between the children first being taken and put up for adoption. CM said in the police interview that she feels her children were taken unlawfully and she feels angry at the way the media were used to hunt them down. Nowhere in the interview does she say she regrets not handing Victoria to social services.
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Without full on outing myself, I have reported people I know to social services. The person I reported would regularly be in an on and off relationship with her boyfriend, who when they split, she would explain the abuse he put her through on social media. This relationship has been going on for years. God knows what else was happening that they weren't sharing online.

I had screenshots of every single post when I reported them and I reported it when they reconciled. Apparently, I wasn't the only one as they uploaded a few posts talking about working with social services, them saying how she was an amazing mum etc...

Despite everything that has happened and all the abuse, her kids are still living with them.

Social Services wouldn't have removed her children based on that incident alone. There must be a lot more that we don't know and may never know in order to protect those children.
 
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aggytha

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I mainly only lurk here, but I do think it’s an interesting point to make about how differently people might look at things if Constance grew up in a rough area/on a council estate.

People often say the same about Madeleine McCann’s parents. They would’ve been absolutely slaughtered had they not been well off medical professionals.

All I do know is that the way baby Victoria spent her short life must’ve been so so awful and she desperately deserved to be safe and warm, with a full tummy.
 
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Dogmuck

Dogmuck

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Polythene Pam said:
Defence lawyers don't have to prove innocence. They only have to introduce reasonable doubt.
Historically male criminals receive harsher punishments than females. Will be interesting to see if that happens here.
I'm not sure his previous conviction will be able to be used as evidence of his bad character as it is not in the same vein as this offence.
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I know I’m a barrister myself. Sorry I didn’t mean it literally, I should have said, given what we already know, it’s unlikely he could make an argument to absolve her from all charges on the indictment and get her acquitted. She did in fact conceal the birth of her child (didn’t tell anyone she had the baby or register it’s birth), she did in fact pervert the course of justice (by not handing themselves in and not disclosing the location of the baby). To be made out, Gross negligence manslaughter, requires death by a grossly negligent act or omission on the part of the defendant. 1. We have a death. 2. depending on the cause of death, it can easily be argued either act (e.g living out on the streets) or omission (E.g. not seeking medical help) were grossly negligent. Realistically, his reasonable doubt argument could only be forwarded if she turns on MG and claims that she was under duress or that she has serious mental health issues

I personally think he will tell her to plead guilty and then focus on mitigation. Avoiding a trial would be the only way to prevent their entire history being put under the microscope.

Interestingly he was counsel for the mother in the Kaylea Titford case (Gross Negligence Manslaughter). She pleaded guilty before trial but the husband went to trial and was found guilty.

Here’s some of KCs mitigation at sentencing for Kaylea’s mother (he called her a kind, diligent and loving mother 🙄 she let her disabled daughter die in her own shit and piss), I believe it will be more of the same for CM

In mitigation, Lewis Power KC, representing Lloyd-Jones, said his client had been evaluated as having low average intellect and a major depressive disorder.
“During the lockdown period, when so many people suffered not just mentally but in socialisation, she became gradually overwhelmed,” Mr Power told the court.
“Her coping strategies coupled with lockdown led her to develop major depression and she was no longer able to care for her daughter’s needs.
“It escalated to the horrendous situation where she withdrew from her everyday responsibilities and led the catastrophic outcome.
“She accepts she neglected her duties of looking after her daughter.”
Mr Power said Lloyd-Jones was a “kind, diligent and loving mother” for the majority of Kaylea’s life, adding that she is “contrite and remorseful”.
 
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