constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

Hotchips said:

I knew a guy like this in London, was squatting on someones house boat on the canal in Camden Town, thought it was cool to look like a homeless person and by the ways hadnt a bean, didnt work either. i used to feel sorry for him, met him few times in local pubs, until someone told me he was a trust fund twat who had plenty of money and spent his holidays on his family's estate in Berkshire... needless to say last i heard of him, his stint as pretend homeless person in camden had come to an end and he was back home managing the family estate, married to someone of his own social circle with children now. Gas isnt it. Constance would have been expected to marry well im sure, someone certainly of her own standard of living and education etc.

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This.

Was friends with a girl in college who was much the same way, very frugal and 'alternative', got with guys from a working class background with no education, dabbled in everything new age and also a Indian cult that her mother, who had never worked in her life, and was bored with an empty nest, got heavily involved in. Took weeks off in termtime in Uni to go sit in a filthy ashram in India - which they had zero cultural connection to - waiting for an audience with this shitbag guru who did magic tricks and doled out cheap trinkets. Five years after college she's been through a 'move to France, live in a nice house in the best part of town with a new car and be an artist' period, funded by a trust fund she never mentioned in college, then got bored of that and married a reasonably wealthy guy, had kids, has never worked a single day.

Never underestimate the capacity of the rich and confortable to go slumming, in multiple ways - sexually, culturally, spiritually and financially. It's practically expected for a period, like when the Amish throw out their offspring for Rumspringa, which is a sneaky way to let them discover just how out of their depth they are in the non-Amish world and return to the fold, relieved to be back in the familiar. Or see the old folk song, the Raggle Taggle Gypsy O - it's an old, old trope.

Common People - the song - is pretty much a Spotter's Guide to the fascination a lot of rich people have with the Unfortunates, and their capacity to go exploring until it gets uncomfortable and then cut the experiment short to return to the comforts and social expectations of their own social milieu. "If you called your dad he could stop it all yeah"

I think CM was less rebelling against her family than simply being a bit of a chip of the old block - slumming, fucking about doing whatever she wanted, 'finding herself' in dumb cults, dating the Wholly Unsuitable, and it all got a bit out of control. because of some fatal character flaw, possibly inherited. Her father's own behaviour seems very Constance. They clearly have enough money to support nonsense whims of any kind, even the kind the father indulged himself in. It's just once CM got involved with SS, the money stopped working as a get out of trouble free card. Once SS are on a family's scent, you can't buy them off, or opt out, unlike pretty much any other kind of trouble.

A merail, but still on topic, I remember when my daughter was stillborn, I'd pass by people who clearly couldn't look after their kids (I grew up in one of the most deprived area of Scotland, left there but went back on occasion as my mum worked there). Usually mums, with multiple young kids in tow looking malnourishment, scruffy, dirty, trailing them around while pushing buggys with small babies. Shouting at them to shut up, hitting them... and I'd look at those babies and cry internally because those mums didn't deserve them. One kid was a little boy about 3, he was obviously blind (you could tell by looking at his eyes, they weren't formed properly, wonder why) and the mum left him standing outside a shop with a baby in a buggy to go in and chat to her druggie mates. I'd have grabbed those kids and given them all the love in the world. It literally tore my soul out.
I would also wonder why SS hadn't removed them, but there were so many families like that so I guess it would have been impossible.



I understand PND, I get that women can suffer coercion, what I don't get is how a small minority of mothers can treat children in that way. I really don't, it's not a feeling I can empathise with. I believe she had her baby under her coat in those photos, I thought that as soon as I seen them. And I also believe the baby probably suffered from withdrawals to drugs, it can cause seizures, muscle spasms, pain, and a baby will cry endlessly. My sister was on a prescribed opiate when pregnant and despise me warning her repeatedly the docs kept giving her it. My niece had to go on morphine when she was born and she cried non stop for many days.

As for leaving your dead baby in a forest... I have no words.

Lucyxxxx said:

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Like I said not everyone is going to be heyyyy social workers I know you want to take my baby from me, here take them . Might be a bizarre concept to some.

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A decent parent would put their child's needs before their own. This pair are clearly absolutely incapable of doing that and that alone makes them unfit to be parents.

This is all just so sad. Five babies all caught up in this - those poor children.

I think we may all be getting a little carried away with speculation here that MG is the driving force and that he's been coercive and calculating. But we've heard nothing from him, so it really does leave her hung out to dry. We don't know if he's fabricated all of these scenarios - or if he is equally as unwell as she is. It's believable that he too would be anti-establishment because of his history, and the suggestion by his family that the rape conviction was all a miscarriage of justice.

But it is so interesting, looking at her Facebook, she literally went awol when she started dating him was posting regularly prior to 2016. Then basically posted nothing until 2020 when she only posted happy photos of the kids, presumably around the time they were in the process of being removed from her? All comments under the photos are friends and family saying they haven't heard from her in years. So it is believable that MG could be the mastermind of this. But really it could just be that it's two unwell people who found each other and they have both spiralled together.

It's just so sad. But I can't help but think we wouldn't care quite so much if it wasn't the rich white aristocrat and the poor black rapist. Would we care if it was a couple from an estate? Not so sure. And I include myself in this, because I've become a bit obsessed by the whole thing.

Be nice of the “aristocrats” to throw some of their well inherited earned money at the public purse that had over 200 officers looking for their darling toots eh? Tied all his money up in nice little trust funds to ensure they didn’t get stung for inheritance tax but the entire shit show of his daughters life will have already run into hundreds of thousands of pounds of publicly funded agencies even before this case gets underway.

pommobear said:

Yes of course, but that doesn't mean she is more responsible than he is for the death of that poor baby, which is what several people seem to have insinuated.

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For ME. The sad reality is that the very worst crimes that are committed, not just in this country, but all over the world are done so by men. (Quick Google tells me that 93% of prisoners are men)

So as a society we become accustomed (rightly or wrongly) to this. When a woman commits the same crime as a man it becomes even more shocking.

For example, Paed0p1hllia.

Men get longer sentences than women for similar crimes, judges are often more lenient with Mums than Dads.

Women are often seen as the victim...this thread shows you that. Many lengthy discussions about poor Constances upbringing, none about his.

They are both responsible for that poor babies death. Equally. They should have exactly the same punishment regardless of their gender.

BUT as a woman, as a Mum it hurts that little bit more that any mother could disregard their dead baby in the woods and go to the chippy. A dead baby because of them.

Ffs the bitchiness on this thread is atrocious. I’m trying to follow the case can we just stick to the topic and stop the indirects it’s pathetic

InTheDollsHouse said:

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Well we got that bit right!
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It says after the baby died - not after the arrest or as trial prep.

Interesting that someone who was so worried about being located, paranoid about phones being traced, and left all the burner phones in the burning car (the irony), was able to do this research while in a tent or shed. Did they have a smartphone then I wonder?

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When SS were involved with my children it was in every report that I was loving towards them, that we had excellent communication and that they wanted to return to my care. This (rightly so) mattered not a bit while I was still drinking! For these two it’s the “unreliable and conspiratorial” bit that mattered as that’s the thing they needed to change in order to be good parents! You could love your child to the moon and back and still they would be better off cared for by someone else if your parenting skills are so lacking that they are at risk of harm. They are too selfish to see they, as a couple, couldn’t be what those children needed, they didn’t even bother to turn up to contact visits ffs.

I have been on tattle for a while but I rarely post. I just wondered if anyone else feels strangely affected by this story. I usually think of myself as quite a strong stomach for these things but this honestly has had me in tears. Maybe it’s because I’ve a young baby myself. I don’t know. I feel heart sore.
Sorry this was a pointless post!

They are excused from jury duty for the rest of their lives. Let’s not forget the harrowing things they will have heard and seen that we are not privy to. The delays are not their fault and it will have taken over their lives to a great degree for months longer than it should have done or they ever expected it to.

The only thing that is coming across for me is pure entitled selfishness. She wanted kids so she started popping them out. She was told by professionals with a wealth of experience and evidence behind them that her way of parenting was so defective they were being damaged and might even die (they were correct). But she wanted to live that way so the kids lost their parents. She still wanted a child so she had another one. She didn’t want to parent like a normal person though, why should she be told she can’t have what she wants and do it the way she wants. So they hid the baby away and didn’t even bother seeing the other kids who were crying for them, because it meant she might not get her own way and keep this one. Their plans went to shit/up in flames. But she wanted this child so keeping Victoria and getting her own way became the primary focus. They weren’t even thinking of baby’s welfare or right to be safe, it was just I want this baby so I’m keeping it. I want I want I want. Bitch be putting Verruca Salt in the shade.

Airhead93 said:

She is crying now

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Marten said: "No. there is literally nothing I wouldn’t do for my children."

Well apart from turn up and see them in contact centre maybe.

this thread is getting ridiculous. you can be disgusted by a crime whilst also recognising how problematic the american prison system is especially for a young black boy. it’s not one or the other.

They wouldn’t get a flat or house because if police knocked they’d have nowhere to run but presumably if police unzipped their tent they could what poof in a cloud of smoke? Is that what they would have done then, had her in their arms and ran on foot through woodland? Police foot chase with baby concealed would 100% be putting Victoria first wouldn’t it

neroli said:

My comment objecting to absence because of a pre-booked holiday (if in fact this is the case?) was mainly because this trial is unfinished business and surely the jury need to prioritise reaching a verdict for Victoria's sake? Jury service obligations should come first in my opinion. Holidays can be rebooked but a baby's life can't.

If it's planned surgery then that's a different matter but that would have been known in advance.

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This is a daft comment. The jury can't just put their life on hold. I wouldn't be giving up my holiday because the court cannot coordinate itself. The court system is inefficient at best. Whilst you might not think a holiday is important it could be someone's last holiday with a family member. Or someone's first holiday with their children. A wedding. Anything.

@Lynn’ssnazzycardigan you are honestly amazing. I hope this doesn’t come across as patronising, because it’s meant sincerely. You made a decision to beat addiction - which is absolutely not easy - and to build a solid and secure family. I hope you’re really proud of yourself for what you’ve achieved x

pommobear said:

I was thinking about this case today as one of my son's fellow home educated friends is currently very unwell with tonsillitis and has been for about 10 days yet his mother refuses even to give him calpol let alone take him to the GP. Instead she is treating him with manuka honey, soup and air purifiers.

Not the same thing but the mentality of "only I know what's best for my child and I don't trust anyone in authority", whilst taken to an extreme with CM and MG, is nonetheless present in quite a few parents.

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Sorry but I’d report this. A friends 13 year old daughter died from tonsilitis a few years back after it got into her blood stream. She had been treated in hospital and sent home unknowingly it was still present and she died in her sleep.

Nottonightbabe said:

And newborns get through a lot of nappies, they need changing frequently as their skin is so delicate. They would have needed a stack of them.

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Yep. I am over any defence of CM. I have stated previously, my children would have cared for that little baby better than her own mother. That isn't hyperbole, they really would. Anyone with a brain knows you need to keep babies warm, clean and fed. Never mind a grown adult who had children previously.

Her being described as a lioness who wanted to protect her cubs is a disgusting mockery of every mother who has struggled through sleepless nights, colic, illnesses, grief, shitty husbands... and relentlessly loved and cared for their children through it all.

Ah the part about little Victoria having and being left in a dirty nappy and neither of her parents changing her to give her a little dignity after she passed has really broke me

InTheDollsHouse said:

I’m absolutely not defending anything that CM or MG have done, not at all.

I absolutely do not think fleeing to hide a newborn is the right thing to do.

But there’s a whole lot of judgement going on when there are very few facts known.

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I’m very comfortable judging two people who have left a trail of destruction (and now death) in their wake since they met.