White Allyship

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This is great news, I hope that people donā€™t think though that this means that justice has been served and the work can stop, its only just beginning. Letā€™s hope for an unbiased, non racist, diverse judge and jury for the trial.
Yes!! I know some people are worried about the fact that the charge has been elevated because it will make it harder to convict. Hopefully there will be enough evidence.... the video probably would be enough if it was a civilian but they seem far more hesitant to admit that for cops. BUT I bet they know there will be global outcry if they get let off the hook now.
 
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OP Iā€™m sorry your thread turned in this. This was supposed to be a safe space with positivity.

The majority of us are still here for that but Iā€™m sorry some are trying to ruin it.

If you arenā€™t here to be positive then read the room and leave. Make a new thread if you really want to discuss that stuff.
Hi Kate. I've had 2 people already banned from Tattle. So the rest I'm watching with a close eye.
 
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Yes!! I know some people are worried about the fact that the charge has been elevated because it will make it harder to convict. Hopefully there will be enough evidence.... the video probably would be enough if it was a civilian but they seem far more hesitant to admit that for cops. BUT I bet they know there will be global outcry if they get let off the hook now.
Wouldnā€™t 1st degree require proof that he planned the murder ahead of time? Iā€™m not sure how well they would be able to prove that beyond reasonable doubt (correct me if Iā€™m wrong). 2nd degree I have no doubt about though - thereā€™s more than enough evidence for any normal person to see that!
 
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How far ahead of time? I would argue that 8 minutes before Georgeā€™s death the police officer planned to kill him. At any point in those minutes he could have stopped with no harm coming to him or his colleagues. He didnā€™t have to put his knee on him at at point, George didnā€™t pose a threat to any of them at any time.
 
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How far ahead of time? I would argue that 8 minutes before Georgeā€™s death the police officer planned to kill him. At any point in those minutes he could have stopped with no harm coming to him or his colleagues. He didnā€™t have to put his knee on him at at point, George didnā€™t pose a threat to any of them at any time.
Thatā€™s very true, I hadnā€™t thought of it like that. In that sense, Iā€™d believe it was premeditated but whether thatā€™s enough to go through a court Iā€™m not convinced unfortunately.
 
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I wasn't planning on posting in here but I have been reading and enjoying the conversation and passing on of information its a great thread and I'm glad gosswhore set it up. Its been interesting to see a few racist comments but thankfully they have been called out. I'm glad to see that I don't recognise their usernames so we probably don't frequent the same posts.

If you can see how frustrating it is trying to apply logic and reason towards comments that just brush off everything you say about racism imagine having to deal with that your whole life and being told you are being too sensitive, that someone is using the race card again, that racism is not as bad anymore, that you need to calm down and are being aggressive when you haven't even raised your voice. I could go on but its tiring.

In the past few months (before lockdown) I have been told that the n word is no big deal anymore by a pupil. Explained history to said pupil and he had to have a few lessons on why it is a big deal and why he shouldn't say it. Informed by a colleague I shouldn't make a big deal about it as kids say stupid things and im coming across as being aggressive. I wasn't even annoyed about the situation the child wasn't racist just misguided but he was using racist terminology.

Been asked by quite a lot of people if I have ever thought about putting my natural hair in "braids" or straightening it again.

Stopped to talk to a friend about our sons on a main road. We were both in smart work clothes and I had my youngest in a pushchair. The road is busy as like I said it is a main road, full of traffic and people my friend is asian, im black and a guy comes out of his house to tell us to keep walking or he will call the police! He doesn't own the pavement we were professional mums in our 30s with a toddler in a pushchair talking about what secondary schools we were planning on sending our children to hardly menaces to society.

My brother is constantly looked at with suspicion, followed around stores, asked if he knows where people can buy weed!! and met with questions by our neighbours who have known him his whole life on how he can afford to have such a nice car. (He has a good job as an engineer which he gained after getting a 2.1 degree at university)

These are just a few things that tbh are not even that bad compared to people who are losing their lives for being black or the time I was told someone was going to chop me up and send me back to my own country while I was just minding my own business or even the time someone decided to call my lovely children half breeds in a fake jamaican accent but its constant and up until recently if black people tried to bring it up we were met with comments such as some of the ones that have been posted recently, we would be met with 'well did you know he was a drug dealer' when talking about unjust murders by the police or 'well my life has been hard' when discussing racism and white privlege. I'm happy to also discuss why their life was hard and what were the factors in that but I wouldn't dismiss their points while doing it. I was talking about Islamophobia as some of my friends had experienced it and was met with 'people are just scared, you just never know' by work colleagues.

Over on tik tok so many creators were having their content copied without credit but were told thats just the nature of the app. Sometimes all the small little things are part of a bigger picture.
 
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I wasn't planning on posting in here but I have been reading and enjoying the conversation and passing on of information its a great thread and I'm glad gosswhore set it up. Its been interesting to see a few racist comments but thankfully they have been called out. I'm glad to see that I don't recognise their usernames so we probably don't frequent the same posts.

If you can see how frustrating it is trying to apply logic and reason towards comments that just brush off everything you say about racism imagine having to deal with that your whole life and being told you are being too sensitive, that someone is using the race card again, that racism is not as bad anymore, that you need to calm down and are being aggressive when you haven't even raised your voice. I could go on but its tiring.

In the past few months (before lockdown) I have been told that the n word is no big deal anymore by a pupil. Explained history to said pupil and he had to have a few lessons on why it is a big deal and why he shouldn't say it. Informed by a colleague I shouldn't make a big deal about it as kids say stupid things and im coming across as being aggressive. I wasn't even annoyed about the situation the child wasn't racist just misguided but he was using racist terminology.

Been asked by quite a lot of people if I have ever thought about putting my natural hair in "braids" or straightening it again.

Stopped to talk to a friend about our sons on a main road. We were both in smart work clothes and I had my youngest in a pushchair. The road is busy as like I said it is a main road, full of traffic and people my friend is asian, im black and a guy comes out of his house to tell us to keep walking or he will call the police! He doesn't own the pavement we were professional mums in our 30s with a toddler in a pushchair talking about what secondary schools we were planning on sending our children to hardly menaces to society.

My brother is constantly looked at with suspicion, followed around stores, asked if he knows where people can buy weed!! and met with questions by our neighbours who have known him his whole life on how he can afford to have such a nice car. (He has a good job as an engineer which he gained after getting a 2.1 degree at university)

These are just a few things that tbh are not even that bad compared to people who are losing their lives for being black or the time I was told someone was going to chop me up and send me back to my own country while I was just minding my own business or even the time someone decided to call my lovely children half breeds in a fake jamaican accent but its constant and up until recently if black people tried to bring it up we were met with comments such as some of the ones that have been posted recently, we would be met with 'well did you know he was a drug dealer' when talking about unjust murders by the police or 'well my life has been hard' when discussing racism and white privlege. I'm happy to also discuss why their life was hard and what were the factors in that but I wouldn't dismiss their points while doing it. I was talking about Islamophobia as some of my friends had experienced it and was met with 'people are just scared, you just never know' by work colleagues.

Over on tik tok so many creators were having their content copied without credit but were told thats just the nature of the app. Sometimes all the small little things are part of a bigger picture.
Iā€™m so sorry you have had to experience such awful things. I know sorry isnā€™t enough, and that it will be meaningless until black lives matter and there is an end to the racism experienced by so many. As a white person, I will never understand what it is like but my heart breaks for you and everyone in the POC community. I am an ally and I will continue to use my voice to fight for a change.
 
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Iā€™m so sorry you have had to experience such awful things. I know sorry isnā€™t enough, and that it will be meaningless until black lives matter and there is an end to the racism experienced by so many. As a white person, I will never understand what it is like but my heart breaks for you and everyone in the POC community. I am an ally and I will continue to use my voice to fight for a change.
@Deepsigh2018 I second exactly what @prinnygrace has written here, I couldn't have put it so eloquently myself. I am deeply sorry for what you have experienced; I truly hope that this brings about real change.
 
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I am hesitant to even write this after a post about George Floyd, but I was wondering if the ladies of the white allyship space think I should bring this up with the BBC. Itā€™s so trivial in the scheme of things, but I love Gardeners World and they broadcast viewers submissions/garden tour type things. Anyway itā€™s overwhelmingly white..... think they had a British Pakistani family on early on and maybe one other POC and I know they have a WOC who is a presenter..... Iā€™d noticed it even before the Christian Cooper incident, which then made me start thinking even more.... anyway, so trivial but do you think itā€™s worth an email to them?
 
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That is true. There are many different types of privilege (most people think 5) and which privilege you benefit from depends on you and your situation. Like I'm white privileged but I've still experience hardship in some situations due to being a woman and lower class than other people. But my race benefits me in many other situations and I've not experienced a lot of struggles that POC do, because of my white privilege.
Agreed completely.

I am white, female and from a very deprived area.

When I was younger I/my family definitely suffered negatively from classism/class privilege in Uk.

HOWEVER that situation was NOT complicated further because of the colour of my skin.

Thatā€™s white privilege.

POC in UK often struggle against the double whammy of classism AND racism in this country.

There may be laws against excluding black/POC from accessing housing, jobs, education etc. But anyone who thinks this discrimination doesnā€™t happen is being will fully ignorant.
 
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Protests work! Talking works!
šŸ˜ This is good to hear.

This story is so tragic. All of them are, of course. Hopefully they get charged too, there was no excuse for what they did AT ALL. And arguably I would say there was intent to kill in this case.
 
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I'm really wary to write this on here because I know that my comment won't be understood and I will automatically be called or viewed as racist.

But let me start by saying that racism to black, Asian, any person other than white is disgusting as I posted on here the other day and anyone who's racist to someone because they're black or have a different religion or colour of skin apart from white is a piece of tit.

However. This is where I'll get abuse now and I feel really uncomfortable to post how I really feel but I fear that racism to white people will go up... Only earlier I saw on Facebook a white man be stamped on and beaten the tit out of by two black men in the London protests. One person filmed it and another tried stopping it, but it didn't attract huge crowds or lots of black people saying leave the white man alone and not to do that, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right. But if the shoe was on the other foot and the white man was stomping on a POC/black person as what happened with George, there would be an outcry. And let me say that what happened to George is absolutely appalling and disgusting.

There is a thread on Mumsnet ongoing right now with the OP saying that basically racism to white people doesn't happen or isn't as important as black people and it has made me really upset, because I have experienced (as a white British person) racial abuse from non-white people. The difference is I contacted the police and wasn't taken seriously, but if the racism was the other way around then things would definitely have been dealt differently. Other mumsnetters have posted their experiences of racism too and I think it's wrong that white people are being viewed as unimportant or that they cannot have racism happen to them. I understand that over history, black people have had racism much worse and are more likely to suffer police racism and brutality, but at least when it's made public a reaction like this happens.

Police here are different to America and racism is much much less tolerated and dealt with quite firmly here compared to America where much of it goes on and gets away with more often. It made me angry to see protests over here turn into riots and throwing bottles and assaulting police in masses when this is another country entirely and what you don't know is that police officer may very possibly also be against George Floyd and racism themselves but people are coming out and attacking police officers because of the actions of other police officers. Many white people in the world are racist but does that make all of them racist and deserve being attacked and beaten for other white people's actions? Why are our police getting attacked and our city destroyed. If you want to make a point, this is not the right way to go about things. As you've seen, many white people have stood on your side and said that this is wrong, the majority of people are against racism and would defend black people, it's unfair to tarnish all white people or turn on them or even be racist to us, too.

I'm sure Tattle will delete my post because there is no freedom of speech in England anymore and because I don't follow exactly what everyone else says. But it's unfair that white people's voices don't get heard either and when white people experience racism nobody listens to them or supports them. What happened to George is disgusting and I hope the police that did that disgusting act get everything they deserve in prison, but certainly in England I feel more is being done to help various ethnicities as opposed to white British people. And as a PP said this country is all about being politically correct, people of colour are more likely to get protected or work because of positive discrimination, people of different diversities over here definitely are protected and looked after better in some cases than white British people. Racism is dealt with nine times out of ten in this country and when Steven Lawrence had what happened to him was in the early 90's whereas now we have come a lot further along and are all about protecting and non discriminating sexuality, religion, race, gender etc.

Tattle - please don't delete my comment. I hear the voices of black people and other ethnicities, but please let all people make a fair comment too. Racism is wrong to any colour, religion or ethnicity.
 
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Blimey, itā€™s TIRING isnā€™t it! You make an eloquent (you think) and reasoned argument but they keep coming? Back into the space to talk about white allyship! Itā€™s not like there isnā€™t the rest of the world as a space to talk about white people?

Black people, how have you been DOING THIS all these years?
 
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I am hesitant to even write this after a post about George Floyd, but I was wondering if the ladies of the white allyship space think I should bring this up with the BBC. Itā€™s so trivial in the scheme of things, but I love Gardeners World and they broadcast viewers submissions/garden tour type things. Anyway itā€™s overwhelmingly white..... think they had a British Pakistani family on early on and maybe one other POC and I know they have a WOC who is a presenter..... Iā€™d noticed it even before the Christian Cooper incident, which then made me start thinking even more.... anyway, so trivial but do you think itā€™s worth an email to them?
A lot of black influencers are asking brands to pull up or shut up.

By "pull up" it means showing how you are making concrete change, who is on your executive board, who you employee.

Ask the BBC to pull up x
 
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I'm really wary to write this on here because I know that my comment won't be understood and I will automatically be called or viewed as racist.

But let me start by saying that racism to black, Asian, any person other than white is disgusting as I posted on here the other day and anyone who's racist to someone because they're black or have a different religion or colour of skin apart from white is a piece of tit.

However. This is where I'll get abuse now and I feel really uncomfortable to post how I really feel but I fear that racism to white people will go up... Only earlier I saw on Facebook a white man be stamped on and beaten the tit out of by two black men in the London protests. One person filmed it and another tried stopping it, but it didn't attract huge crowds or lots of black people saying leave the white man alone and not to do that, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right. But if the shoe was on the other foot and the white man was stomping on a POC/black person as what happened with George, there would be an outcry. And let me say that what happened to George is absolutely appalling and disgusting.

There is a thread on Mumsnet ongoing right now with the OP saying that basically racism to white people doesn't happen or isn't as important as black people and it has made me really upset, because I have experienced (as a white British person) racial abuse from non-white people. The difference is I contacted the police and wasn't taken seriously, but if the racism was the other way around then things would definitely have been dealt differently. Other mumsnetters have posted their experiences of racism too and I think it's wrong that white people are being viewed as unimportant or that they cannot have racism happen to them. I understand that over history, black people have had racism much worse and are more likely to suffer police racism and brutality, but at least when it's made public a reaction like this happens.

Police here are different to America and racism is much much less tolerated and dealt with quite firmly here compared to America where much of it goes on and gets away with more often. It made me angry to see protests over here turn into riots and throwing bottles and assaulting police in masses when this is another country entirely and what you don't know is that police officer may very possibly also be against George Floyd and racism themselves but people are coming out and attacking police officers because of the actions of other police officers. Many white people in the world are racist but does that make all of them racist and deserve being attacked and beaten for other white people's actions? Why are our police getting attacked and our city destroyed. If you want to make a point, this is not the right way to go about things. As you've seen, many white people have stood on your side and said that this is wrong, the majority of people are against racism and would defend black people, it's unfair to tarnish all white people or turn on them or even be racist to us, too.

I'm sure Tattle will delete my post because there is no freedom of speech in England anymore and because I don't follow exactly what everyone else says. But it's unfair that white people's voices don't get heard either and when white people experience racism nobody listens to them or supports them. What happened to George is disgusting and I hope the police that did that disgusting act get everything they deserve in prison, but certainly in England I feel more is being done to help various ethnicities as opposed to white British people. And as a PP said this country is all about being politically correct, people of colour are more likely to get protected or work because of positive discrimination, people of different diversities over here definitely are protected and looked after better in some cases than white British people. Racism is dealt with nine times out of ten in this country and when Steven Lawrence had what happened to him was in the early 90's whereas now we have come a lot further along and are all about protecting and non discriminating sexuality, religion, race, gender etc.

Tattle - please don't delete my comment. I hear the voices of black people and other ethnicities, but please let all people make a fair comment too. Racism is wrong to any colour, religion or ethnicity.
Hi,
I disagree with these comments. You say as a white person if you called the police about racist behaviour towards you, you wouldn't be taken seriously but if a black person called the police about racist behaviour, they would be. I respectfully disagree. I actually think the black person may not be taken seriously too or the police could end up questioning THEM about what they "did" (I have read about this happening).

You also say racism is less tolerated in the UK... Again, I disagree. I witnessed a lot of racism in the UK, in fact, much of it is more "casual" racism. I often heard people say the "c" word to describe Chinese people, and they would say it so nonchalantly, it made me feel sick. I called a family member out on it just last year, saying that it is NOT acceptable to say it.

Now, this is a story of xenophobia. My fiance was at his office in the UK (he is from North America but was an ex-pat) and works for a big international company. One day at the office one of his colleagues just casually starts going on about "Eastern Europeans" and how they "steal all of the jobs" etc (the shite people say). My fiance COULDN'T believe what he was hearing. 1. His parents are Polish so he has a Polish surname. 2. If this was said so casually/publically at the office in North America it would NOT be acceptable and would be taken to HR but it seemed the "norm" in the UK office.
He said the racism he noticed in the UK was astonishing. He heard people on the street throwing the "p" word around a lot and was disgusted.
 
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Even if reverse racism was real (which I don't believe it is, personally), I fully believe that this isn't the place or time to discuss it. I've seen so many white people stand up and say "but what about US!" And it's like.... it's not about us right now. We've had enough time for it to be about us. It's always about us. Which is wrong.

I found this a really interesting an informative read. I don't know how reputable the source is, but the points are very good and well put across.

Ricky Sherover-Marcuse asserts that "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whitesā€
- http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
 
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I'm really wary to write this on here because I know that my comment won't be understood and I will automatically be called or viewed as racist.

But let me start by saying that racism to black, Asian, any person other than white is disgusting as I posted on here the other day and anyone who's racist to someone because they're black or have a different religion or colour of skin apart from white is a piece of tit.

However. This is where I'll get abuse now and I feel really uncomfortable to post how I really feel but I fear that racism to white people will go up... Only earlier I saw on Facebook a white man be stamped on and beaten the tit out of by two black men in the London protests. One person filmed it and another tried stopping it, but it didn't attract huge crowds or lots of black people saying leave the white man alone and not to do that, it's wrong and two wrongs don't make a right. But if the shoe was on the other foot and the white man was stomping on a POC/black person as what happened with George, there would be an outcry. And let me say that what happened to George is absolutely appalling and disgusting.

There is a thread on Mumsnet ongoing right now with the OP saying that basically racism to white people doesn't happen or isn't as important as black people and it has made me really upset, because I have experienced (as a white British person) racial abuse from non-white people. The difference is I contacted the police and wasn't taken seriously, but if the racism was the other way around then things would definitely have been dealt differently. Other mumsnetters have posted their experiences of racism too and I think it's wrong that white people are being viewed as unimportant or that they cannot have racism happen to them. I understand that over history, black people have had racism much worse and are more likely to suffer police racism and brutality, but at least when it's made public a reaction like this happens.

Police here are different to America and racism is much much less tolerated and dealt with quite firmly here compared to America where much of it goes on and gets away with more often. It made me angry to see protests over here turn into riots and throwing bottles and assaulting police in masses when this is another country entirely and what you don't know is that police officer may very possibly also be against George Floyd and racism themselves but people are coming out and attacking police officers because of the actions of other police officers. Many white people in the world are racist but does that make all of them racist and deserve being attacked and beaten for other white people's actions? Why are our police getting attacked and our city destroyed. If you want to make a point, this is not the right way to go about things. As you've seen, many white people have stood on your side and said that this is wrong, the majority of people are against racism and would defend black people, it's unfair to tarnish all white people or turn on them or even be racist to us, too.

I'm sure Tattle will delete my post because there is no freedom of speech in England anymore and because I don't follow exactly what everyone else says. But it's unfair that white people's voices don't get heard either and when white people experience racism nobody listens to them or supports them. What happened to George is disgusting and I hope the police that did that disgusting act get everything they deserve in prison, but certainly in England I feel more is being done to help various ethnicities as opposed to white British people. And as a PP said this country is all about being politically correct, people of colour are more likely to get protected or work because of positive discrimination, people of different diversities over here definitely are protected and looked after better in some cases than white British people. Racism is dealt with nine times out of ten in this country and when Steven Lawrence had what happened to him was in the early 90's whereas now we have come a lot further along and are all about protecting and non discriminating sexuality, religion, race, gender etc.

Tattle - please don't delete my comment. I hear the voices of black people and other ethnicities, but please let all people make a fair comment too. Racism is wrong to any colour, religion or ethnicity.
Itā€™s hard to comment on a video when itā€™s impossible to know the context. This convo is not saying violence or abuse is ok to any race.

What you described is not not racism but possibly prejudice, again hard to say without knowing what happened. Letā€™s be clear - Racism is prejudice plus power. And who holds the power in western countries? White people.
Everyone has racial biases but when you have group collective bias with authority and institutional control this is something far bigger than individuals and their wrongs or rights.

ā€˜Positive discriminationā€™ could be seen as levelling the playing field, seeing as POC were discriminated against for years before.
 
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Blimey, itā€™s TIRING isnā€™t it! You make an eloquent (you think) and reasoned argument but they keep coming? Back into the space to talk about white allyship! Itā€™s not like there isnā€™t the rest of the world as a space to talk about white people?

Black people, how have you been DOING THIS all these years?
This week has been on the most exhausting times of my life and I've had cancer twice

Even if reverse racism was real (which I don't believe it is, personally), I fully believe that this isn't the place or time to discuss it. I've seen so many white people stand up and say "but what about US!" And it's like.... it's not about us right now. We've had enough time for it to be about us. It's always about us. Which is wrong.

I found this a really interesting an informative read. I don't know how reputable the source is, but the points are very good and well put across.

Ricky Sherover-Marcuse asserts that "we should not confuse the occasional mistreatment experienced by whites at the hands of people of color with the systematic and institutionalized mistreatment experienced by people of color at the hands of whitesā€
- http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
People love whataboutism to deflect instead of reflect
 
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But did black people come to your country

Oh so wait a minute was it black people that came to your country and took you by force? But did black people make you work and be a slave raped sold bought burnt killed for absolutely no reason just for being white? Did other POC come to every white country and force it to follow them or they will kill them? Or was is the black people that came up with the whole divide and conquer? Was it black pepole that stole all the treasures and the history from white people? Was it a Muslim man that introduced Prince Edward to those poor white underage girls? Was ebsteen black was bleeping hitlar black is the pope that rapes little boys black I can honestly go on and on and notice how I used simple English just so you can understand because clearly you look like someone who has no education what so ever someone who never read a book I'm so scared that you are actually someone's mother who's raising children who will turn just like you which is so sad!!!
QsI think maybe you meant to reply to the original poster and not me but I completely agree.
Itā€™s so scary to see someone claim that all of this is ok because a minority of people from a certain culture did something horrendous (grooming gangs) while the bulk of abuse in the UK has been perpetrated by white men. Where is her concern for the victims of Jimmy Saville?