UK Politics

[LoopyLou47]

The Unions. The RMT is incredibly misogynistic. They'll deny it but I've worked on the railway and whilst individuals aren't, the union as a whole is, they actively prevent any progress in changing rosters etc which are the biggest barrier to women becoming drivers.

The unions and the Hard/far Left have a tradition of being misogynistic and racist in the past, ( because women and ethnic minorities in the workplace would mean less work for the men.

On paper sir Keir might have looked a good choice - modest backgrounds and rose to be an (allegedly) hot shot lawyer. But in practice he's been a terrible choice.

Most younger people I know have no idea what conservatism is about, they think it's about being scum baddies. Not that I can blame them seeing as the government has been confused over who they are.

I have almost always voted Labour, but I can't remember when I did so with any great enthusiasm. I wish we could have a different electoral system and a broader choice of parties to vote for.

Cruella Braverman out for her self

My brother in law went to Europe on Erasmus and also voted for Brexit. I don't know much else as we avoid the topic for family harmony reasons. My MIL is fervently a remsiner/rejoiner.

 

[Salacious]

Not surprised Kemi Badenoch is gaining traction. She'll appeal to grassroot Tory voters because a) you know where she stands with 'identity politics' and b) nullifies Labour. Some high profile support in the Telegraph/Spectator too. In a way she reminds me of Lisa Nandy during Labour's leadership contest. Relative unknown who can talk plainly, so will need to be in the Cabinet.

 

[monga]

 

[Yel]

I have almost always voted Labour, but I can't remember when I did so with any great enthusiasm. I wish we could have a different electoral system and a broader choice of parties to vote for.

I think voting labour nextis the best chance to get in PR and do something about the house of lords. Although it also risks a coalition with the SNP governing the country.

 

[LoopyLou47]

I think voting labour nextis the best chance to get in PR and do something about the house of lords. Although it also risks a coalition with the SNP governing the country.

I agree. The Lib Dems need to step up, stop being irrelevant and double their seats for that too, I think.

 

[Northern northener]

Not surprised Kemi Badenoch is gaining traction. She'll appeal to grassroot Tory voters because a) you know where she stands with 'identity politics' and b) nullifies Labour. Some high profile support in the Telegraph/Spectator too. In a way she reminds me of Lisa Nandy during Labour's leadership contest. Relative unknown who can talk plainly, so will need to be in the Cabinet.

I think she's great. I am a floating voter but she is a conviction politician that we do not see very often. I don't care for flip flopping penny m.

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

Because it's all bullshit. I had a Labour set of grandparents and a Conservative set of grandparents, my Conservative set of grandparents were far more tolerant (the Labour ones were religious) they were too busy running their small business to worry about what anyone else was getting up to and with who. 90% of the country share the same values, I've never met a person that doesn't think that we should be supporting the vulnerable, I've never met anyone that doesn't believe social medicine is a good thing, the only difference is which party we think can deliver what we want.

I have never met anyone who doesn't think we shouldn't support vulnerable people but they have been demonised by sections of the media and used as political pawns to great effect before and will be again now, just look at the crap Suella is spouting.

People have happily voted in a government with an exceptionally poor record of these universal goals so there is some part of the electorate that doesn't care. Like the hysteria over raising taxes on people earning over 80k a year, good job we didn't vote for that

The biggest problem the UK has is that Cameron inadvertantly gave the tories carte blanche by allowing indyref because as long as the SNP crush all opposition in Scotland no-one will command a decent majority except the tories. Corbyn managed to decimate May's majority to the point she had to beg the DUP but essentially that just paralysed the government on Brexit. I don't think there another seats south of Scotland that are capable of swinging red without a real leader of a defined movement and Starmer isn't it.

The Unions. The RMT is incredibly misogynistic. They'll deny it but I've worked on the railway and whilst individuals aren't, the union as a whole is, they actively prevent any progress in changing rosters etc which are the biggest barrier to women becoming drivers.

I assume this is TFL? What specifically are they blocking with rostering that prevents women becoming drivers because there are loads of women driving on other TOCs now.

 

[LoopyLou47]

Corbyn managed to decimate May's majority to the point she had to beg the DUP but essentially that just paralysed the government on Brexit. I don't think there another seats south of Scotland that are capable of swinging red without a real leader of a defined movement and Starmer isn't it.

Corbyn decimated May's majority before Brexit, then did absolutely nothing during the campaign, either for or against, despite being an ardent Brexiteer for the previous 40 years, turned apparent remained, but couldn't explain his reasons. Labour in Scotland were so bloody awful they lost all their seats. The problem is, I don't think Labour will ever have a real leader of a defined movement because there are two factions who are so opposed to each other that they would rather the Tories won than someone from the other faction as leader. They haven't been a defined movement for maybe 70 years.

 

[Moth]

I'd like Kemi just to see Labour voters tie themselves in knots trying to turn her into a white woman so they can carry on with the Tory racist crap. Newsflash some members in all parties will be racist/sexist/homophobic. Ultimately it' the Tories that have had 2 Female leaders and there is every chance they will also have a minority leader before Labour.

What was that old idiom about judging a person's character by the company they keep? Badenoch backers: Laurence Fox, Darren Grimes, Rod Liddle, Calvin Robinson, Damian Thompson (associate editor, The Spectator), '30p' Lee Anderson, Ben Bradley and Michael Gove.

In the unlikely event that she did become PM she's going to find she needs a lot more than a medal from the 'culture wars'.

 

[mindlessness]

I think Javid and Hunt both stepped down on the proviso of a future cabinet post from Rishi - as in, 'okay I will step down, most of my support will probably go to you, I'll support you, but in return I want a good cabinet posting if/when you become PM'. It feels like most of this process is basically just people bribing each other with numbers and cabinet posts.

 

[Yel]

The problem is, I don't think Labour will ever have a real leader of a defined movement because there are two factions who are so opposed to each other

This exactly, who are labour for now that there's a vanishingly small amount of blue collar jobs? Most people seem to consider themselves middle class these days.

I apportion a huge amount of the blame for brexit with Tony Blair and Gordon brown. Other countries like Germany and France clearly recognised the problems that would be caused with the eastward expansion and free movement with countries where living standards were so different. So they invoked the transition period to not allow free movement for up to 7 years.

Blair and brown didn't and massively miscalculated how many would move to the UK. There were genuine concerns and certain industries were massively affected but people kept being told they were biggots by expressing any of them. By the time brexit happened it was a moot point as living standards in countries had increased (and stagnated in the UK) so there wasn't such a large disparity.

Also Blair and brown kept using the eu as a kicking post to blame for things that they had control of or rules they could of ignored like the French do. They sowed the seeds to make so many resent the EU during their tenure.

 

[LoopyLou47]

This exactly, who are labour for now that there's a vanishingly small amount of blue collar jobs? Most people seem to consider themselves middle class these days.

I apportion a huge amount of the blame for brexit with Tony Blair and Gordon brown. Other countries like Germany and France clearly recognised the problems that would be caused with the eastward expansion and free movement with countries where living standards were so different. So they invoked the transition period to not allow free movement for up to 7 years.

Blair and brown didn't and massively miscalculated how many would move to the UK. There were genuine concerns and certain industries were massively affected but people kept being told they were biggots by expressing any of them. By the time brexit happened it was a moot point as living standards in countries had increased (and stagnated in the UK) so there wasn't such a large disparity.

Also Blair and brown kept using the eu as a kicking post to blame for things that they had control of or rules they could of ignored like the French do. They sowed the seeds to make so many resent the EU during their tenure.

Agree. Although both parties have used the EU as the whipping boy for their own inadequacies since we joined. We were instrumental in many of the Health and Safety and food standards EU legislation, and much of our legislation was stricter than other countries inbthe EU. Our problem with immigration is caused by British businesses not investing in staff training, pay, conditions eand technology, preferring to import ready trained cheap staff. Again, nothing to do with the EU, and now leading to a huge staff shortage, needing more immigration.

 

[Yel]

Totally agree. A big problem is also both parties have not invested in the infrastructure to support a growing population and reap the rewards of it. So many have been left behind and disadvantaged from it.

 

[Moth]

Because it's all bullshit. I had a Labour set of grandparents and a Conservative set of grandparents, my Conservative set of grandparents were far more tolerant (the Labour ones were religious) they were too busy running their small business to worry about what anyone else was getting up to and with who. 90% of the country share the same values, I've never met a person that doesn't think that we should be supporting the vulnerable, I've never met anyone that doesn't believe social medicine is a good thing, the only difference is which party we think can deliver what we want.

A sample size of 4 people is probably not the best test of broad political values. I'd also like to hear some evidence that '90% of the country share the same values'. That seems to me to be palpably not true.

Does the last 16 years convince you that the Torys are committed to delivering and protecting socialised medicine and supporting the vulnerable? If they are, they are making a tit job of it.

 

[Notworthy]

Agree. Although both parties have used the EU as the whipping boy for their own inadequacies since we joined. We were instrumental in many of the Health and Safety and food standards EU legislation, and much of our legislation was stricter than other countries inbthe EU. Our problem with immigration is caused by British businesses not investing in staff training, pay, conditions eand technology, preferring to import ready trained cheap staff. Again, nothing to do with the EU, and now leading to a huge staff shortage, needing more immigration.

But that is a consequence of Blair wanting 50% of students in University then it had to be funded so fees came in and all the coats of education got shoved onto the students. University provision needs to be seriously curtailed. Too many are being sold a pipe dream and ending up in jobs that they could've gotten straight from School without the debt and a few extra years of income. The only ones from my son's primary school that have got on the housing ladder didn't go to university

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

Corbyn decimated May's majority before Brexit, then did absolutely nothing during the campaign, either for or against, despite being an ardent Brexiteer for the previous 40 years, turned apparent remained, but couldn't explain his reasons. Labour in Scotland were so bloody awful they lost all their seats. The problem is, I don't think Labour will ever have a real leader of a defined movement because there are two factions who are so opposed to each other that they would rather the Tories won than someone from the other faction as leader. They haven't been a defined movement for maybe 70 years.

The legacy of Brexit again, a Leaver leading a Remain party and a Remainer leading a Leave party. New Labour was a defined movement, not a good one but still. Labour already whitewash recent results to make them look better than ones achieved under Corbyn in certain seats, I think they will be easily defeated in the next GE as long as the next Tory leader isn't a complete moron.

I'm a former Labour member (left after a few arguments with John Woodcock, former Labour MP now Tory Lord, reward for slating Corbyn in the last GE) and I wouldn't vote for them right now. Essentially there are too many career politicians all drinking the kool aid from the same political ideology to the point the electorate are apathetic and it is just different flavours of the same thing. Even back when Milliband ran, the choice was essentially Austeriy Lite vs Austerity. This is bad even for Conservative supporters because a toothless opposition means the government can break promises and axe policies with no real jeopardy.

But that is a consequence of Blair wanting 50% of students in University then it had to be funded so fees came in and all the coats of education got shoved onto the students. University provision needs to be seriously curtailed. Too many are being sold a pipe dream and ending up in jobs that they could've gotten straight from School without the debt and a few extra years of income. The only ones from my son's primary school that have got on the housing ladder didn't go to university

University needs to be more selective and free but only for the top academic achievers. I know people who managed to drop out of school, drop out of college, squeak by on a foundation course that required minimum effort and then go to university and get loans etc only to drop out of that and likely never pay that money back. Hardly the aspirational instution of excellence they were concieved as.

 

[Notworthy]

The legacy of Brexit again, a Leaver leading a Remain party and a Remainer leading a Leave party. New Labour was a defined movement, not a good one but still. Labour already whitewash recent results to make them look better than ones achieved under Corbyn in certain seats, I think they will be easily defeated in the next GE as long as the next Tory leader isn't a complete moron.

I'm a former Labour member (left after a few arguments with John Woodcock, former Labour MP now Tory Lord, reward for slating Corbyn in the last GE) and I wouldn't vote for them right now. Essentially there are too many career politicians all drinking the kool aid from the same political ideology to the point the electorate are apathetic and it is just different flavours of the same thing. Even back when Milliband ran, the choice was essentially Austeriy Lite vs Austerity. This is bad even for Conservative supporters because a toothless opposition means the government can break promises and axe policies with no real jeopardy.


University needs to be more selective and free but only for the top academic achievers. I know people who managed to drop out of school, drop out of college, squeak by on a foundation course that required minimum effort and then go to university and get loans etc only to drop out of that and likely never pay that money back. Hardly the aspirational instution of excellence they were concieved as.

Nail on the head 're University.

 

[LoopyLou47]

Nail on the head 're University.

Totally agree re University. It needs to be free for a smaller number of people, coupled with a huge expansion in technical education and Higher level apprenticeships in vocational areas. We need to be giving free university places for essential services and state run services like teaching and the medical profession. But that would call for competence and long-term thinking, as well as businesses to step up and invest in training staff instead of complaining about young people not knowing anything when they come out of University.
Also agree re having a strong opposition. Part of the reason we have such a weak government is because we have a poor opposition and have done for many years. I'm not sure what needs to happen to rectify that. I don't think Corbyn was the answer. We are a socially Conservative country, and Corbyn is gone, after losing huge amounts of seats to the Tories. No amount of complaining about mainstream media in the age of Social Media, and where huge swathes of under 35's don't read papers and don't vote will change that. Labour lost because they patronised people who they wanted to vote for them and had a ridiculous Brexit policy that any idiot could see wouldn't work, yet when they were told that, they told people they were stupid instead of listening.

A sample size of 4 people is probably not the best test of broad political values. I'd also like to hear some evidence that '90% of the country share the same values'. That seems to me to be palpably not true.

Does the last 16 years convince you that the Torys are committed to delivering and protecting socialised medicine and supporting the vulnerable? If they are, they are making a tit job of it.

I think most people vote for what they think is best for them and their families including, I suspect some uber wealthy celebrities who outwardly endorse Labour.

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

This exactly, who are labour for now that there's a vanishingly small amount of blue collar jobs? Most people seem to consider themselves middle class these days.

Those that do are deluded though. I used to work with shift workers who thought they were middle class because they made 45k a year in a relatively low income area. Some of them were rabid union reps in those dastardly rail unions full of 'lefty dinosaurs determined to take this country back to the 70s' etc etc but thought themselves middle class and never voted anything other than Tory. The same party that thinks their jobs should be automated ASAP.

The only takeaway I suppose is we are all nuanced beyond the confined labels people try to gauge political views with and people will potentially vote against their own interests if the sales pitch is good enough. Social media has diluted this more and I don't doubt it will be even more severe as time goes on.

 

[Ensay]

So many slogans around at the moment.

Ready for Rishi
PM for PM
Any but Penny