UK Politics #6

[thegirlscout]

Carry on posting!

The big news over the past few days has been the Conservative Party Conference.

My question is does anyone have a link to a list of promises or ideas that Rishi wants to implement like cancelling part of HS2 and scrapping A Levels? I can only seem to find articles discussing one or two of the points but would find it helpful if there was an article that broke down them all.

 

[Onetwofour]

Carry on posting!

The big news over the past few days has been the Conservative Party Conference.

My question is does anyone have a link to a list of promises or ideas that Rishi wants to implement like cancelling part of HS2 and scrapping A Levels? I can only seem to find articles discussing one or two of the points but would find it helpful if there was an article that broke down them all.

Here it is: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/04/key-takeaways-rishi-sunak-tory-conference-speech

 

[thegirlscout]

Here it is: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/04/key-takeaways-rishi-sunak-tory-conference-speech

Thank you! I think the idea to ban tobacco is a good one. I also think banning vaping would be helpful too as that seems to be way more popular with the younger generation than traditional cigarettes. I’m not sure about the changes to A Levels - hopefully we have some Tattlers who are teachers and can give a better view point. HS2 doesn’t personally affect me and to be honest I rather they improve the train system across the country as a whole than pouring billions into such a small area.

I’ve seen the term culture wars being used a lot but I’m not sure what it means really. Is it when politicians focus one thing to hide a bigger issue?

 

[kev1974]

Thank you! I think the idea to ban tobacco is a good one. I also think banning vaping would be helpful too as that seems to be way more popular with the younger generation than traditional cigarettes. I’m not sure about the changes to A Levels - hopefully we have some Tattlers who are teachers and can give a better view point. HS2 doesn’t personally affect me and to be honest I rather they improve the train system across the country as a whole than pouring billions into such a small area.

I’ve seen the term culture wars being used a lot but I’m not sure what it means really. Is it when politicians focus one thing to hide a bigger issue?

The thing is that all the transport projects I've seen mentioned as things that the £36m saved from HS2 will now go on ... ARE ALL ALREADY UNDERWAY OR HEAVILY PLANNED (i.e. aready funded) anyway? Absolutely classic con job and it's astonishing how the public fall for this sort of thing again and again and again (from governments of all flavours not just the current one).

They're only brave enough to finally talk about banning smoking now because so many people have switched to vapes or just died off anyway.

But alongside the smoking ban, the continued "wishy washy" response on vapes is pathetic. "We're going to have a consultation on it". I saw Chris Whitty sit on This Morning today and all be could bumble out was "vaping is less bad than smoking". Are you sure Chris? From what I see firstly you've got kids of all ages vaping, and secondly whereas people who smoked would generally get up from the restaurant/bar or office chair to go out and have a cigarette i.e. that need to get up at least some of the day -- many smokers weren't smoking. With vaping they're doing it continously all day every day, quick puff every minute etc. It's astonishing that while the finer details of the damage done to lungs from vaping may well not be known yet, we do have decades and decades of knowledge about asbestos, construction dust, cigarette smoking, car exhaust that tell us that the best thing for lungs is fresh air. And yet with vaping we're stuck at "well it's less bad than smoking", and even that should have a "might be" in there.

Not to mention the absolute incongruity of merrily allowing disposable vapes and all the environmental mess of them littering the streets, and all the issues to do with the batteries in them, while banging on about plastic straws and carrier bags, and going on about needing ULEZ in London and other cities for clean air reasons? None of it makes sense together.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

Re vaping ... I'm no expert (obvs) but it just seems obvious to me that inhaling anything your body doesn't need is not going to be good for it. It will be interesting to see the statistics in 10 years time about damage done by vaping eg mouth cancers.

 

[Moth]

I’ve seen the term culture wars being used a lot but I’m not sure what it means really. Is it when politicians focus one thing to hide a bigger issue?

To me 'culture wars' means using societal issues (rather than economic ones) which divide opinion as a basis to appeal to a section of the electorate. The obvious example of this is the question of gender but also issues such diversity / multiculturalism, human rights, free speech, so-called 'wokeism' and now everything that can be vaguely associated with climate change; the 'war' on motorists, meat tax, 15 minute cities etc.

The suggestion is that the Tories are doing this because they have achieved nothing over the 13 years that they have been in government that they can point to as a reason that people should vote for them. It's quite weird that they have been in power so long but are trying to position themselves as the party to change things in the future. The last thing they want is to be judged on their record in government. The cost of living crisis and the parlous state of the NHS are surely the two biggest issues facing the vast majority of people at the moment but we heard almost nothing about either at the conference.

 

[thegirlscout]

To me 'culture wars' means using societal issues (rather than economic ones) which divide opinion as a basis to appeal to a section of the electorate. The obvious example of this is the question of gender but also issues such diversity / multiculturalism, human rights, free speech, so-called 'wokeism' and now everything that can be vaguely associated with climate change; the 'war' on motorists, meat tax, 15 minute cities etc.

The suggestion is that the Tories are doing this because they have achieved nothing over the 13 years that they have been in government that they can point to as a reason that people should vote for them. It's quite weird that they have been in power so long but are trying to position themselves as the party to change things in the future. The last thing they want is to be judged on their record in government. The cost of living crisis and the parlous state of the NHS are surely the two biggest issues facing the vast majority of people at the moment but we heard almost nothing about either at the conference.

Those societal issues are important though, one could argue that the problem with have with migrants is an economical issue because of the strain is places on the government to house them etc (which reminds me, what happened to the barge? Has that just been forgotten about?)
But I agree that the biggest issues facing the UK are the cost of living crisis and the NHS. But I think calling issues ‘culture wars’ sounds like people are trying to reduce their importance? Because if things aren’t economical problems doesn’t make them less important?
My issue is have is that there seems to be a lot of promises from politicians but nothing really seems to be done to a meaningful extent. It’s akin to putting a plaster on the problem.

 

[Moth]

Those societal issues are important though, one could argue that the problem with have with migrants is an economical issue because of the strain is places on the government to house them etc (which reminds me, what happened to the barge? Has that just been forgotten about?)
But I agree that the biggest issues facing the UK are the cost of living crisis and the NHS. But I think calling issues ‘culture wars’ sounds like people are trying to reduce their importance? Because if things aren’t economical problems doesn’t make them less important?

If by 'migrants' you mean asylum seekers they are but a tiny fraction of net migration to the UK which for 13 years has been entirely within the control of the government that is now telling you that it is a problem and the system is broken. I would also suggest that the major impacts on our economy is not migration; obviously Covid had a huge impact but Brexit and the disaster of the Truss experiment have had much bigger impacts. In 2010 the national debt was £1 trillion and the party of economic responsibility has managed to increase that to over £2.5 trillion.

Otherwise I would argue that these 'culture war' issues are mostly not important in the wider context of the majority of people in this country except perhaps to people that have allowed themselves to be enraged by issues being stoked up in the media or completely invented by the government.

My issue is have is that there seems to be a lot of promises from politicians but nothing really seems to be done to a meaningful extent. It’s akin to putting a plaster on the problem.

Well exactly. The government has achieved almost nothing of value in 13 years and have made some really important things worse. They can't can't make meaningful promises now because they have wrecked the economy that underpins getting anything significant done. That are now purely things that aren't problems, things that are already happening or things that were never going to happen.

Edit: here's a great example. As part of the 'other works' that £36 billion 'saved' from HS2 was going to fund, the government announced that Manchester's Metrolink tramline will be extended to reach Manchester Airport. That was done 9 years ago! There is no end to how stupid they think the public are.

 

[thegirlscout]

If by 'migrants' you mean asylum seekers

Is migrant not a correct term to use?

 

[monga]

Never trust a politician.

 

[Moth]

Is migrant not a correct term to use?

It's not about 'the correct term' it was simply unclear what group of people you were talking about. As you specifically mentioned 'the strain on the government to house them' and 'the barge' I wondered if you were talking about asylum seekers and refugees. As I said they are a very small percentage of the total number of 'migrants' entering the UK every year and thus are extremely unlikely to be creating a significant strain on the economy relative to other issues

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

Not all migrants are asylum seekers or refugees.

 

[thegirlscout]

It's not about 'the correct term' it was simply unclear what group of people you were talking about. As you specifically mentioned 'the strain on the government to house them' and 'the barge' I wondered if you were talking about asylum seekers and refugees. As I said they are a very small percentage of the total number of 'migrants' entering the UK every year and thus are extremely unlikely to be creating a significant strain on the economy relative to other issues

Moth, you’re sounding a bit aggressive here. I was simply asking a question because I was unsure.

 

[Moth]

Moth, you’re sounding a bit aggressive here. I was simply asking a question because I was unsure.

I'm sorry you think that, it wasn't intended to be and to be honest I have absolutely no idea why you do. I was simply unsure about what group of people you were talking about but assumed you might only talking about asylum seekers / refugees and not all migrants which would include those entering on visas etc.

Your response as to whether migrants wasn't the 'correct term' seemed to miss the point and I tried to clarify that it wasn't a question of worrying about using the correct term but clarifying your original point. I'm still mystified as to why you think anything I posted was aggressive in any way.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

@thegirlscout Re Bibby Stockholm, 2 weeks ago it was apparently given the all clear from Legionella and the plan was put migrants back in.

Personally I think it a disgrace. It's performative and insulting to the majority of us with half a brain. It's more expensive than putting them in hotels and gives an imagery of putting them in jail. I can just imagine how it got signed off.

 

[thegirlscout]

@thegirlscout Re Bibby Stockholm, 2 weeks ago it was apparently given the all clear from Legionella and the plan was put migrants back in.

Personally I think it a disgrace. It's performative and insulting to the majority of us with half a brain. It's more expensive than putting them in hotels and gives an imagery of putting them in jail. I can just imagine how it got signed off.

They just seem to be having these hairbrained schemes (Bibby, Rwanda) which cost a lot of money and don’t actually do anything of value. It’s really frustrating because it’s not doing anything to reduce the boats coming over and reduce the human trafficking. More people get hurt, more money gets wasted and what is there to show for it? So when any politician says they are going to reduce the number of boats I’m very interested in how because they are all just throwing money they don’t really have at the problem.

 

[HelloStereo]

They just seem to be having these hairbrained schemes (Bibby, Rwanda) which cost a lot of money and don’t actually do anything of value. It’s really frustrating because it’s not doing anything to reduce the boats coming over and reduce the human trafficking. More people get hurt, more money gets wasted and what is there to show for it? So when any politician says they are going to reduce the number of boats I’m very interested in how because they are all just throwing money they don’t really have at the problem.

They could become more efficient in processing asylum applications. They're roughly half of what they were 20 years ago yet asylum applications processed within 6 months has decreased from 90% to 4%.

Of course if they got efficient at processing applications they can no longer fall back on "look, all of the problems are due to people coming here on boats."

I guess they're trying to change the narrative now to blame it on trans people trying to use bathrooms that mirror the gender they identify with...

 

[Merpedy]

I guess they're trying to change the narrative now to blame it on trans people trying to use bathrooms that mirror the gender they identify with...

I think it's just the new easy vote winner because they've clearly had some criticism about the way they have handled asylum seekers and have had no/very little success over the past couple of months

This doesn't really have a set precedent where they have continuously messed up over the last 13 years

 

[monga]

They could become more efficient in processing asylum applications. They're roughly half of what they were 20 years ago yet asylum applications processed within 6 months has decreased from 90% to 4%.

Of course if they got efficient at processing applications they can no longer fall back on "look, all of the problems are due to people coming here on boats."

I guess they're trying to change the narrative now to blame it on trans people trying to use bathrooms that mirror the gender they identify with...

There’s complaints that they’re processing too quickly for the 20yrs it’ll take for social housing to kick in…Wonder what it is

 

[Merpedy]

There’s complaints that they’re processing too quickly for the 20yrs it’ll take for social housing to kick in…Wonder what it is

The problem isn't necessarily that they are processing too quickly

The problem is that they have let the backlog build up so much that they are now putting even more strain on services that are there to support people with newly received status

The other problem, which had already been highlighted decades ago, is that the move out time isn't enough for anyone to make a solid plan - and some people are getting just 7 days of notice that they're being evicted